I work around mostly men, and yeah some of the stuff is hilariously off mark. It's like they forget we're human and so ascribe just crazy things to our thought process.

Except that most self-proclaimed Nice Guys are not even actually nice guys... and maybe if they actually were nice guys they would not be single/rejected.

[independent.co.uk]

@demifeministgal always exceptions in any group like widower or someone who lost partner through death or illness. They are out of practice and lost, afraid of being taken like victims of scammers

@demifeministgal what is a nice guy? what is a nice girl for that matter? two camps each. nice ones and not nice ones? and all the self proclaimed are delusional or sinister and in the latter category.

"Examples of Nice Guy behaviour include:

Performing kind gestures with the sole motive of seducing a woman
Insisting the reason they were rejected is “women like bad boys”
Believing showing basic human decency and manners makes them especially “nice”
Complaining about the difference between what women claim to want in a man and the men they actually go for."

From the article. The first three are not examples of nice behavior, imo. Fourth? Innocuous. Same complaint made by both sexes (sexes reversed in the complaint.)

@larsatrg except there is not a sad pathetic trend of women complaining about how men never want the nice girl and how the nice girl gets stuck in the friendzone... there are not mainstream psychology websites or media articles or even research dedicated to the nice girl phenomenon as there is to the nice guy trope. So not the same thing AT ALL. Comparing apples with oranges there mate.

@demifeministgal agree. but i was making a point about labels, and the response to the reply that nice guys are affected by it.

imo, the reply was not a commentary on nice guys or good women. my interpretation is that the response lamented a perceived wariness in women due to the OP article example and actually likely includes the issues that your article addressed. again, if the behavior displayed in your article is attributed to an individual, they are not nice. they can call themselves what they wish, they are not behaving nicely.

would you have reacted to this?

"Why it's hard for men to find women. Most have been run over by these jerks."

slight issue on the first part of your reply to me here too. the idea is not comparing apples to apples either. the convention is the man pursues. would be completely different, if culturally, the woman pursued, imo.

@larsatrg the whole point of my comment was many self-proclaimed Nice Guys are not actually nice and provided the article as an example... then you agreed with me that those self-proclaimed guys are not nice so we are in agreement, but you are writing me paragraphs for some reason

@demifeministgal "Except that most self-proclaimed Nice Guys are not even actually nice guys"

this is initially the reason for my response to you. a claim about most of a type of guy i took as a reaction to the "nice" in the response to the post. i did not take his response to be the dude in the article. i saw it more as a regret that women are exposed to the behavior making it hard on men. next time maybe be i'll stick to grunting or at a minimum one word answers.

@larsatrg I think our life experiences will just be different... I wager that I have encountered waaaay more fake Nice Guys in my life than you ever have.... and so our outlook will be different... you have the privilege of giving such guys the benefit of the doubt, whereas me doing so can lead to being in an abusive relationship.... meh that is life I guess. :/

@demifeministgal agreed. i can assure you that you have dealt with it far more than i have as not one of them has designs on entry to my pants.

very few people get the benefit of the doubt. i have a dim view of us. i just couldn't square my perception of the original response with how i took your reaction to it. when i cannot square something, i usually type. i guess i treated the "nice" in the original response as innocuous. considering the topic in the original post, maybe i should have been in the mindset that men are pigs and should have just absorbed the info about the class to pass on to women i know and left it there.

i sincerely hope you (women collectively) and especially my daughters successfully avoid all of the men teaching, taking, and thinking of taking the class in the OP and all of the men in your article. let's just be safest and have my kids avoid all men, period.

@larsatrg no need for hyperbole now... actually the safest approach is not putting the burden onto women and having women limit their actions... it is to educate and socialize boys into healthier models of masculinity and to teach them proper social skills and emotional intelligence so they will never feel the urge to, or even consider, taking courses from PUA scumbags. I would not say men are pigs, but the ones mentioned in the article definitely are, with the exception of the author, he's a gem and great ally.

No kidding honey sucks