That was Madison’s ideal when working on the constitution - he warned of the dangers of forming factions.

@Haemish1 well I think given today’s circumstances he was right.

America’s founders imagined interest groups in which people would briefly cooperate to get what they wanted.
Hamilton and his allies within five years formed a longer-lasting relationship, the Federalist Party. Jefferson and his states rights planter allies, not wanting to be permanent losers, formed the Democratic Republican Party.

Excellent idea! Eliminate the parties and get money out of politics to where each candidate has equal air time on TV/Web/Adds. This would not only get the special interest control out of elections but allow candidates to run on their ideas of how to improve freedoms while reducing cost of government. (Which has become nothing more than a machine for big chip players to control markets...to hell with the health and wealth of the citizen)

@yvilletom in that spirit they obviously never imagined it to be the monster it has become. And yet they also experienced the cultishness of special interests even way back then.

@warlord13 exactly and term limits would also be nice. We also need to cut the pay and benefits they receive. We need to make it a real job like what the rest of us do. Nobody should be getting rich from the taxes the people pay to the feds.

@DiThor Term limits indeed! And they should be paid the equivalent of a median income (I believe it's about $40k/Year) plus expense accounts that are documented and business related only. (No trips to offshore islands on the public's dime). Health care should be the same as everyone else and both salaries and benefits terminate when their service is completed...NOT FOR LIFE! What other job other than a company owner gets paid for life?

@warlord13 expense account? For what? They need to take care of business and pay for their own expenses to do a job including their commute to and from their jobs...just like the rest of us. No trips of any kind either until they get their “vacation” time. Lol
And agree no paycheck of any king once they are no longer doing the job.

It does not sound foolish at all. Voters are lazy and irresponsible voting party rather than knowing the facts about the candidates. It shows even in the Presidential nomination process occurring for 2020 as polls reflect name recognition rather than actually knowing the voting records and policy positions.

"Wise people pick the lesser evil until the lesser evil (greater good) becomes the center point and and even better options come about. " If that were true, we would not have our military spread all over the earth, invading other countries, fomenting coups, spreading depleted uranium all over, using white phosphorous, bombing critical water supplies as they did in Libya, (a war crime, by the way), assassinating leaders like Kadaffi, funding terrorist organizations in Syria to attempt a coup there, bombing hospitals, (another war crime), and this kind of behavior has been going on since the nation formed, and you assert that voting for the lesser evil will do the trick?
.
Interestingly, you add "wise people", as to include yourself in that herd.
.
That is not wise people, that is the herd, those who listed to the bull shit on FOX, CNN, etc, and never once bother to investigate any further. Lesser evil . . . yea , right. . . . Bush was the lesser evil? Clinton was the lesser evil? Obama was the lesser evil? Hell no . . . they are ALL criminals from the same gangster group, democrat and republican . . .
. Obama admitting his role in the US-supported coup in Ukraine, a war crime. (First video link below).
Victoria Nuland, Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs at the United States Department of State, admits in the second video that the USA supported the Ukrainian coup with 5 billion dollars. Note the Chevron symbol in the background of the video. John McCain (Senator Lovewar himself) and Victoria Nuland were in Ukraine in December 2013 amid the mass anti-government protests. (The third video is of John McCain in Ukraine addressing protesters.) During the visit, McCain met with Ukrainian opposition leaders in the country’s capital of Kiev, voicing his support for the protests, adding that he saw Ukraine’s future with Europe.
Biden's youngest son, Hunter Biden was hired to the board of Burisma Holdings, Ukraine’s largest private gas producer.
The proxy Ukraine war is all about energy. The Eastern part of Ukraine is the major oil and gas producing region of Ukraine accounting for approximately 90 per cent of Ukrainian production and according to EIA (The American Energy Information Administration) may have 42 tcf (trillion cubic feet) of shale gas resources technically recoverable from 197 tcf of risked shale gas in place.
George Soros is heavily invested in Ukraine . . . . to the tune of about one billion dollars.
Obama admits the US-sponsored coup:

@Archeus_Lore What can I tell you? The USA is an energy company with an Army and most of what goes on in the world is about energy. That makes us and Russia the top contenders for any deal that is made. You either make a deal or you do not make a deal. I'm not sure this makes you a bad guy unless others do not like you having the better deal. Then you become the bad guy.

Thank you. The Green Party leadership sucks... period. They need to participate in all elections at every level like the Democrats and Republicans to be taken seriously. Every member of the Green Party should pick a local or state office and run for it. Would change the situation in short order the same way the GOP did, going from a 3rd party when founded in 1856 to the White House in just four years in addition to real representation in the Legislature.

Strong points

I disagree, because I once was part of the Green Party 15 years ago. My friends choose to NOT VOTE rather than support a criminal like Hillary Clinton or a piece of shit like Donald Trump. Stop shifting the blame and clean up your own house, the stench is driving away most citizens who are choosing not to participate.

@ExculpatoryLover "not voting" is actually a vote! If you abdicate this time, you are "voting" for Trump! Period!

And this is why we need our own Russian-style election interference. Because we can't fathom anything but binary partisanship

@MarkiusMahamius
My feeling is that the Russian interference only exacerbated binary partisanship.
A parliamentary system, or something that allowed multiple parties with proportional representation might be a more effective approach.

@Haemish1 i agree that our winner take all approach is hurting us, though i wonder what would happen if we had to try a different political approach. Have you ever tried to work in an organization that didnt have a ultimate, un nuanced decider, and everything was cooperative or collaborative?

Anyhow, i think the "Russian troll bot conspiracy" does function more or less as a third party right now. A certain number of people who would otherwise think for themselves, are now allied with a belief sytstem thats outside of dem or gop control- though it may align with one party or the other, just like the libertarians tend to align with the gop, and the greens with the dems. But ideologically it functions as if people were memebers of a tjird party.

@MarkiusMahamius SMH... Russia has so little power over us, while there is another nation that dominates us and our elections because they own the entire MSM and the majority of the financial institutions across our nation. Why these foreigners actually placed 89 dual citizens in the US Congress and every last one of them is Democrat, not the damned Republicans. No talk about them either... cowardice in the face of this powerful enemy ruling our institutions.

Good idea, but here in Pennsylvania our Constitution prohibits voter driven referendum and recall.

@ExculpatoryLover Amend the constitution.

@yvilletom ~ Our state constitution is even more difficult to amend than the federal constitution, which we see is a monumental task of epic proportions. Why are the Democrats in Congress cry babies and not even attempting to amend the US Constitution on any issue what so ever? Food for thought...

@ExculpatoryLover I went to ballotpedia and read your C’s amendment process. It makes clear that Wm Penn and his allies were predators and the people their prey. Today’s Pennsylvanians have a piece of work to do.

Your question? It’s too rhetorical to answer.

The Electoral College is an integral part of the US Constitution that establishes our governments. Good luck changing that, no simple law of Congress can effect it. As an election official, I am well aware of the Election Code governing the process. Millions of provisional ballots were not counted (happens every election) because they only get counted when they can change the outcome. If the total number of provisional ballots is less than the margin of victory, they are simply thrown out - uncounted, so it is a fallacy to claim who won the REAL popular vote. The winner take all provision discourages voters from the minority party in every state so the outcome of 2016 would be very different if it were a true national vote rather than a union of states each deciding their choice. Proportional representation would be the way to go, but as for ranked choice voting... changes not a thing for me. I am not playing that game, I make my choice and stand behind it. Earn my vote, I am ignoring bullshit voter shaming by the Wall Street Democrats who betrayed the working man. Russia did not send tens of millions of good paying jobs to the 3rd world and Communist China.

Sure, if you think Hillary Clinton, the one who started the whole Russian paranoia thing, to deflect attention from her email scandal, is a reliable source . . .

@Archeus_Lore Now that's funny

Reminds me of an old joke; "Libertarians are Republicans that like to smoke weed."

There are many political parties, it is a winner take all system that frightens people into supporting lesser evil. Look where it has taken us... cowards!

I have found the worst aspect of the lobbyist are those that are 'special interest.' There are groups that are general interest but we seldom hear of them and they don't have the financial clout as the special interest ones do.

@OwlInASack thats short sighted, plus weve already got catastrophic results

@OwlInASack i don't agree.

@OwlInASack ~ There is no down time to the election cycle. We have municipal and county contests in 3 days and every odd year. We have state and Congressional elections in the other even years. Your excuse to not fix the system is self defeating. I recall the Democrats screaming under George Bush how we were all going to be doomed. Well here we are and here we still are after three years of Trump who hasn't really changed much policy wise from Obama. Only real difference is style, how they present themselves to the public. What a shame, we are gong no where as a nation but down the toilet to both corporate Democrats and their friends in the GOP.

@ExculpatoryLover gee, I dunno, gutting the EPA, trying to harm LBGTQ people, damaging our educational system, trying to control women's bodies/life...etc........."not much change from Obama"?????? On what planet, sweetie....

@Seeker3CO Holy shit... Hillary Clinton is the GREATEST threat to our democracy... she literally rigged the election in 2016. The DNC attorneys admitted it is their right to do so in open court in their attempt to dismiss the litigation against them which is still pending court action. Oy Veh

@ExculpatoryLover I am no Hillary fan, but you sound like one of those idiotic conspiracy theory driven right wing nuts.

@wordywalt ~ Well I am not even GOP. I am an elected Democrat for over a decade, an election official in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. I am citing election fact. Here is a link to the litigation still waiting court action... call the courts a conspiracy theory if you can not stand reality. [ivn.us]