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I just started going to meetings (12 step recovery) and the higher power thing is kinda jamming me up. I know it's a work in process but religion is one of the things that drove me to need recovery (co-dependent behavior). I know I am a work in progress and need to come to my own understanding about what a higher power means to me. Any groups on here that offer some support in that area or others in recovery that are comfortable sharing?

Redsun1970 5 Oct 24
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1

12 Step Programs have a book or pamphlet for the atheist. I have no idea what it says, but it might br a resource for you.

Basically it says eventually the atheist or skeptics will find god

@Marcie1974 - Well, that's disappointing!

@RussRAB I had several people tell me that eventually I would have a divine experience and then I would truly heal

@Marcie1974 - The absolute arrogance of some religionists. Sheesh!

9

There is also SMART recovery, which is science based: [smartrecovery.org]

Roxi Level 6 Oct 24, 2019

This

7

Try s.m.a.r.t recovery go to the website [smartrecovery.org]

It's a secular thing none of that twelve step crap online meetings as well as group

7

I was just going to recommend that, I have some friends that use that program and work with the program.

@HippieChick58 my daughter ended up not going but it was what I thought would fit best. She became sober without anything to really help.

7

Someone told me once your "higher power" can be a door knob if you want it to be; maybe your own recovery can be your higher power! Best of luck to you.

Use that door knob ONCE to get out and stay out of the cult of Alcoholic Anonymous

I heard that too but realistically, no one is going to think of a higher power in a doorknob. In AA they absolutely mean the traditional Christian god. The chapter in the big book about atheists is a joke. The last paragraph basically say eventually the skeptic will see the truth and find got.

@Marcie1974 A person makes their higher power what THEY want it to be; who cares what AA thinks it should be.

@AzVixen52 when you are in a meeting and everyone is judging you and you’re raw from trying to stay sober, it absolutely matters. I cared what AA thought it should be.

Perhaps I’m overly sensitive but I definitely felt like the Christian god was being shoved down my throat. Perhaps it was just the meetings in city that I was living in

@Marcie1974 Not everyone cares. Door knob it is!

6

Agreeing with all who have said to try SMART Recovery, which focuses more on cognitive behavioral therapy techniques rather than 'divine inspiration', or other secular programs rather than programs that rely on HPs.

However, assuming you may stick with the traditional 12-stepping (for whatever reason makes sense for you), this Cattus came to the idea that "turning your life and will over to a power greater than yourself" turned into the question "Well if I am not willing to turn my life over to God, since I don't believe in superstitious mythology, then exactly who AM I willing to turn my life over to? 'Cuz it sure wasn't ME!" (plz excuse poor grammar)

It was at that point I realized everything I was doing was in service to my spouse, leaving little for me except frustration and exhaustion. Once I decided to live my life for me, everything changed for the better.

Tetched by God? Nah. Just a change in priorities, all told. Easy to say - much harder to live.

Just keep in mind that AA/Al-Anon were founded in the 1930's and 1950's (respectively), when well over 90% of the country self-identified as Christian. Today, the percentage is closer to 70%, so someday AA and Al-Anon are going to have to modernize or be relegated to history.

6

I’m in recovery and can help. There are others like us in meetings. Sometimes they are hard to find. Listen to the share and you can tell when they don’t mention God. Also there are some good websites Facebook groups etc.

Except, you know, fuck Facebook

@CallMeDave EXACTLY!!!

5

Say, “I love myself unconditionally.”

Repeat it until you believe it.

5

One more thought... I know an atheist who had problems with the higher power concept in his AA meetings as well. When I asked him how he dealt with it, he said... "I think of my higher power as my more perfect self, without all my BS" and that worked for him. Something to think about.

(Edited)
After I posted this I read the response below mine, and @mischi pretty much beat me to it, and very concisely.

5

Good luck going forward.
Congratulations on taking logic and reason with you on your road to recovery.
I truly hope you are successful.

5

AA Beyond Belief (Facebook group)

Staying Sober without God (book):
[aaagnostica.org]

4

So this "higher power" thing. The literature may use that term somewhere, but the way it's written is "power greater than ourselves".
If I try to move a huge stone in my yard, but cannot do it, I get tools to use to help move it, but still cannot not budge the damn thing. So I call up a few friends, we all put our heads together, grab tools and whatya know, the stone moves. Strangely enough many in AA would say "but for the grace of god" we got that done. But I say "fuck no. I couldn't do it myself so I called a few friends over to help me get it done. Together we all are a power greater than myself. You see what I mean? No god, or "higher power" involved.
It was AA that got me to ultimately settle into my agnosticism. If there is a god, he/she/it doesn't give a flying fuck if you get sober or not. That's been my experience. Make change, get change.

4

A higher power can be whatever you want. The fact is that alcoholics etc have no inner power to change, that's why we use a "higher power" for some reason it works to pray and meditate.
Do you not think that mother nature is a power greater than you? Or the universe?
The use those! Or anything else that you want.
There is no religion in AA - or shouldn't be anyway.

Blind deaf addicts claim no religion in AA but those can hear all the religious readings at every meeting and those who can see, see bibles everywhere AA meets and the penis of the gawd AS YOU UNDERSTAND him

Yea-but....

We all know who we're talking about when the words 'higher power' are invoked - we're NOT talking about Thor or Inanna or Buddha or even Xenu, etc. We're talking specifically about the Judeo-Christian idea-construct commonly called Yehweh, Jehovah or God. It's implicit in the process, history and membership, regardless if a new member picks a tree or a rock as an HP in the beginning.

I was once asked to close a meeting (the Lord's Prayer, obviously) and I tried to politely decline. They insisted, so I started 'praying' to Ganesh, the Remover of Obstacles (of course). The group reaction was viscerally negative. Right down to the contorted faces and body twitching. I did say I wanted to decline... However, the event did prompt this particular group to adopt the Serenity Prayer as the closing instead of TLP. A conditional win, methinks.

There also appear to be about two-dozen court cases over the last forty years that have determined that AA/Al-Anon are religious ENOUGH to qualify as violating the 1st Amendment rights when such a program is court mandated.

4

My sober B Day is 08/29/2013, I relied heavily on AA for the first 4 months. These days my “sober daily hygiene” is a combination of meditation/yoga and weed.

Are you a Reddittor? This is an incredible resource. When I joined the forum 5 years ago we were estatic reaching almost 25k subscribers. Clearly it caught on. A lot of incredible people who got me through an incredibly difficult first year.

[reddit.com]

Download the Reddit app here: [reddit.app.link]

I should also mention you are more than welcome to contact me. A couple great books: Breath at a Time: Buddhism and the Twelve Steps

David and Goliath by Malcolm Gladwell

Chasing the Scream by Johan Hari (he’s got a couple TED talks too)

When I need a break from my crazy monkey mind:

I'm listening to Unfu*k Yourself: Get Out of Your Head and into Your Life by Gary John Bishop, narrated by Gary John Bishop on my Audible app. Try Audible and get it here: [audible.com]

4

The problem is not the alcohol. It's always something else in your life that is not working out. Maybe your boss, divorce or family, so find out what is bugging you first, then work it. It's about love and work, not Jesus. Your crutch is on drugs or getting high on Jesus, either drug. Dragging yourself out of the mud works best and lasting.

Or self-medicating to cope with trauma or mental illness(es) which many addicts do.

4

I attended Al-anon meetings as an atheist and told them that I was not a believer. They told me that my "higher power" could just be the group. Nevertheless, they always recited "The Lord's Prayer" at the conclusion of the meeting, which I took to be disingenuous. My "higher power" is science...and she doesn't give a shit about me or my perceived problems.

well, so you say, but i suggest that science is currently busy proving your connections to nature, and power over it, and fwiw there are ppl who assert that the Bible should be interpreted in the same context. For the first you might pursue "The Hidden Messages in Water" wherein it ha sbeen scientifically proven that one might manipulate water (clouds) by thinking about them, and for the other you might read this guy, [abarim-publications.com]

fwiw "Lord" is an English serf-holder, and imo at least a terrible xlation, straight from Queen James

@bbyrd009 "..."The Hidden Messages in Water" wherein it ha sbeen scientifically proven that one might manipulate water (clouds) by thinking about them,..." I would like to see the proof that one can manipulate the clouds by thinking about them.

@dahermit i was a bit skeptical myself, but the documentation is in the book. I didnt follow up on it, but it was apparently a pretty rigidly controlled experiment, and the guy is pretty famous in certain circles. If you develop a refute i would like to hear it!

@bbyrd009 It is difficult to refute something that you will not provide a citation for. We should just take your word for it?

@dahermit wadr my citation is "The Hidden Messages in Water?"

4

The whole god-thing is all make-believe. However, there's something to what's been called the god within. It's actually a discovery of your true self-nature, but all the religious belief just clouds the goal of self-discovery. (Or so I think.) Going deep within is where you'll find who you really are and where you'll discover your genuine power.

@Redsun1970 If you want to experience the truth of this for yourself you could check into a hospital that now allows doctors to use tiny amounts of ayahuasca to cure people of addictions, ptsd, depression, etc. People have "trips" under observation and controlled circumstances, and results have been impressive.

One thing everyone who has tried magic mushrooms, ayahuasca, or LSD finds out, is that the entire universe is one..one energy, one photon, all connected. You just know it and see it as your brain's right hemisphere is activated. Afterward, people are aware of the error of their thinking, and it's like their brains were "reset."

@birdingnut From what I've seen, a little LSD or ayahuasca can open up areas of the mind somewhat like a long-term meditation practice. I've stayed away from the chemicals, though--chiefly because I've been meditating so long. And I imagine I've already gotten there.

4

I went to Codependents Anonymous for a couple of years. It’s a good 12-step group in general. The extent to which they stay away from Christianity and keep the higher power vague will vary from group to group. I do think 12-step groups tend to focus on the negative past behavior and not so much on positive future behavior and attitudes. I found a book by Kant’s Bosniak “The Becoming Process” to be a big help as a positive alternative process.

4

Your higher power is your brain

4

I eventually gave up on AA because of how hard they pushed the god thing. One guy actually asked me, "If you don't believe in God, what're you doing here?" It was clear in that moment they didn't want atheists in their midst.

4
3

good luck. i never went b/c of the religious connotation. i have enough problems but i'm not a hypocrite.

3

Hi. I just happen to have an AA in addiction Studies. We covered atheism and higher power in some of the classes. I have never had an addiction myself, so this is my understanding of how it works.

The professor told us of three different people who chose higher powers other than "god". Once chose his daughter, one chose his motorcycle and another chose a kitten, and of course in each case ti worked, because he wanted to illustrate a point.

If you do not believe in the supernatural (god), then you need to find something in your life which evokes feelings of love and caring in yourself. Teh more you do something for a person or thing that evokes feelings of love within yourself, teh better you think of yourself as a person, and the less you desire to drink and/or use.

There are two aspects to addiction, there is physical addiction and psychological addiction. The physical addiction is easier to deal with. The psychological aspects are much more difficult, and is the psycholigcl aspects which the twelve steps help deal with.

The point of the twelve steps is to gradually over time to change your behavior(s), so you think better of yourself and so you find it easier to live with yourself as a person, so you don't feel a need to numb your emotions by usign chemicals (alcohol/drugs) to get relief from how yoiu feel.

Everyone starts using for a myriad of different reasons, but as addiction takes hold, virtually everyone develops similar personality traits in order to maintain their addictions. These traits for most people are contrary to how most think "good people" behave, and so there is usually a degree of self loathing that develops which in turn needs to be numbed with the chemical(s) of choice. So, drinking/using becomes no longer about feeling god, but about no longer feeling bad.

Anyway, if you are starting into the 12 steps and are an atheist, look for a sponsor who is also an atheist or at least agnostic. 12 step groups have a lot of variance as to how much they use religion. If you want ot avoid religious emphasis, you might try going to groups which are either gay or gay friendly (assuming you have no problems with gay persons).

Anyway, I hope some of this is helpful.

If you look at the AA steps it just doesn’t jive if you’re atheist or agnostic.

  1. Admit you are powerless over your addiction. Fuck that, if you’re powerless over it, how are you supposed to overcome it?

  2. Believe a power greater than yourself could restore your sanity. So basically I’m “insane” and without a higher power I can’t restore my sanity (get sober). As an atheist, I believe I have control over what I put in my body, not god or a doorknob

  3. Make the decision to turn your will and life over to the care of God or your higher power. Again, no free will, gotta let god do it for ya

  4. Moral inventory-I can deal with that

  5. Admit to yourself, others, and God or your higher power the exact nature of your wrongs. I can admit to myself and others, but again with god bs.

  6. Be entirely ready to have God remove all these defeats of character. This one doesn’t even include “or your higher power.” Plus now I’m defective as well as insane.

  7. Humbly ask God or your HP to remove your shortcomings. So I’m unable to remove my shortcomings unless by magic?

  8. Make amends - I’d be ok with this one except God or your HP should be your first one

  9. Make direct amends

  10. Continue to take personal inventory

  11. Seek through prayer and (not or) meditation to improve your conscience contact with god or your HP. Remember your HP can be a doorknob!

  12. Carry this message to addicts

After all that it’s difficult to feel excluded and not be angry, which is super helpful when trying to fight an addiction

@Marcie1974

Yes, agreed.

As an atheist, I do have a problem with Program saying "You don't have to believe in God, just a Higher Power. See that doorknob over there? Ask it to remove your defects..."

If I went to an MD or a psychololgist with an issue and was told this, I'd call the AMA to get their license revoked.

@Marcie1974 and @redsun1970 Almost verbatim agree with Marcie on this. I did PM, in case you would like more color.

3

You may want to check out NA (Narcotics Anonymous) for meetings in your area. Most of them have many members who are non-religious folk, Buddhists, atheists, etc. In fact most of the chapters prohibit people from referring to God, prayers, or their religion at all - because it alienates people. And there are often people with alcohol issues only - no other drugs - who attend because of this. At least this is the case in the Tampa Bay area - so I assume that it is the same elsewhere. Good luck.

3

You have already been brainwashed by the big book chanting old readings every meeting....get out of that cult QUICK....FIND YOUR NEAREST RATIONAL RECOVERY or Secular Sobriety group meeting or online reading.....there are no higher powers or personality spirits and alleged gawds with a penis.....if you have dysfunctional family issues seek a Rational Emotive Therapist instead of a religious counselor .....spend your time wisely with Atheists rather than trading stupor for delusions....AA is drunk with religion and often are toxic smoke filled rooms of dangerous addicts and felons court ordered into "anger management" which is identical to 12 step AA religion

3

There is an organization called Secular Organization for Sobriety, a/k/a Save OurSelves. Check to see if there's a chapter in your area. I think there's other secular groups too but I'm not familiar with the names
[aaagnostica.org]
Good luck to you

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