I had an interesting conversation today. So, someone I care about told me I just needed to accept that I was blessed and god was helping me with something. I politely said "Yes mam." and the conversation was over. Does belief in god just make you naturally condescending. She knows I am atheist. She knows I am very well versed in her religion. I can't imagine how offended she would be if I said that there is no god and things don't happen for a reason. Why do I have to be the adult?
Part of being an adult is having to put up with foolish comments.
Live with it.
No.
OK.
@moosepucky
Why?
I had my education interfered with when my mother stormed into my primary school and in front of the class bawled out my teacher for doing her job and telling us human beings are animals, when according to her we are the subject of the divine image and to say otherwise is blasphemy.
WHY should my teacher have had to live with that, why should I have had to put up with that and the 14 years plus of Bible mandated SHIT she tried to indoctrinate in to me?
No Sir, we do not have to put up with lies, childish delusions, fear based nonsense and fools, when we can speak out against it and invalidate it with facts.
If you are willing to live with that for the sake of a quiet life KNOWING it is foolishness, you sir are a coward.
Evangelical anti-god, to me, is worse than the worst atrocities committed in the name of god
We are "supposed" to know better but you prove me wrong.
@moosepucky Tolerance of the intolerable or the intolerant is putting your own head under the heel of the oppressor and inviting them to stamp you silent without complaint.
I have no desire or "calling" to convert or un convert anyone.
What someone chooses to believe is their personal choice.
I have the same feelings about political choice and sexual preference. I would not call out anyone on any of their personal choices, regardless of what they have chosen.
@moosepucky So you would be okay with some Christian ass telling you your children deserve to burn in Hell forever? You are okay with extremism, nationalism, racial purity, ethnic cleansing?
All just personal choices?
By the way sexuality and gender are NOT a personal choices or preferences.
@LenHazell53 I have not experienced what you are saying.
Maybe because I am not publicly outspoken about my religious, political, or sexual preferences.
@moosepucky does not alter the fact that it happens and that such people really believe in such immoral cruelty.
If you ask a Christian if they believe that they will have one of too reponses
A) Yes in which case you then know they are an immoral monster who you should have no place for in your life
B) They say "Well I don't personally believe that but it is the will of god" in which case you know they are a hypocrite happy to worship a monster and turn a blind eye to the suffering they believe will fall on BILLIONS of people at the hands of said monster they too are an immoral monster who you should have no place for in your life
Or are you the sort of person who is willing to have an utterly cruel theo-nazi as a friend or neighbor so long as you don't know it?
I would rather know if a monster is in a position to interact with my grandchildren and make sure that they don't.
#1) Why would I ask a Christian (Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, or any dedicated religious person) ANYTHING about their beliefs much less try to convert them to my personal beliefs? I am NOT an anti-religious fanatic. My purpose in time is to NOT create friction, especially over something as irrelevant as religion. My purpose is to enjoy the little time we have in this cognitive state known as life, not to argue about something that I have no control over.
#2) Would you prefer a pedophile as a neighbor or a religious family to interact with your grandchildren?
So far I have tried to keep our interaction on a non personal, theoretical, level. You, for some reason, want to draw me into a personal debate/argument about something that has little to no interest for me.
In our short interaction I have come to believe that you have some very personal issues that you need to work through. This is best done at a professional level, not on an internet forum which seems to only exasperate your issues.
That's about all I can say, other than good luck.
@moosepucky If you read my previous posts you would know I don't thrust my lack of beliefs on anyone,(I would have thought someone of your obvious intelligence would have known Atheism is NOT a belief) but if they attempt to thrust their's on me, I will warn them that they really don't want to do that, but if they insist I will engage with them on a factual basis and usually end up seriously damaging their faith.
Point 2 is a false dichotomy, because being a pedophile/paedophile is nothing to do with your faith or lack there off it is a mental condition that as we all know is particularly prevalent in members of the clergy of all denominations, perverts do not tend to proselyte and finally if the "christian family" are of a missionary bent you are basically saying is it not better to have your children mental raped than physically raped . Well NO neither is acceptable and both can cause long term trauma.
I do not expect you to reply to this since you seem to have lost interest in the conversation and have instead resorted politely insulting me.
But for the sake of anyone following the interaction I have had my final say.
So good luck to you too
@LenHazell53 maybe over time we can engage in substantive conversation.
I believe you have a lot to say and we all have a great deal to learn along our trip through this unusual and unexplored wilderness called life.
Best to you and I look forward to jousting on a more relivent topic sometime in the future.
Here in North Cackalacky, when we hear something ridiculous, we back away and say "Well, all right then." I dunno if that works in Indiana, but it's worth a shot.
It could be a theme. A little farther North, people say "is that right?"
@ownworstenemy In Philly, it's more like "no fukkin shit". But there are a lot of variations.
You don't.
I refuse to entertain their delusions anymore.
If anyone who knows me, who knows I'm an atheist, who still insists on trying to "get through" to me, I'm going to go straight for the jugular.
I'm not going to be the bigger person anymore.
If they're going to disrespect me, they should expect to get the same in return.
I'm done.
Being nice, and doing the whole "live and let live" thing is pointless.
That's what has allowed them to believe they get to proselytize and influence public policy.
I'm not doing that anymore.
They no longer get a pass from me.
I'm done with their bullshit.
Legally, I have to tolerate that they get to believe in whatever religious bullshit they choose. I do NOT, however, have any obligation to respect their beliefs.
Well said, I could not agree more
@LenHazell53 Thanks!
Doesn't sound like a conversation at all. More like she was trying to bulldoze her beliefs down your throat and you enabling her. Whenever someone comes to my door trying to do that, I exchange my own pamphlet with them, one that shows the similarities their demigod Jesus has with other gods and demigods of that time.
Thats what it sounded like to me also. I assumed its someone that he is fearful of making angry and losing the relationship.
"Why do I have to be the adult?"
Used to be called "White Man's Burden," which I think is a misnomer. You have to be the adult because you are more than likely the more intelligent between you and her. I've been told by my own parents that I'm going to hell because of my disbelief, but I unfortunately share the burden of being the better man and refraining from argument. It would only sour relations with my family, whom I still love dearly.
"Thanks for the concern, but you know I don't believe that."
You don't have to say anything other than I don't believe that. But thanks anyway.
Most of them just take that as a challenge
@LenHazell53 So challenge them back.
@LenHazell53 possibly but then I cut the conversation short unless I want to have a long discussion about why I don't believe
@808Girl I usually warn them not to go there but if they persist in trying to "save me", then they asked for it.
@LenHazell53 I should try that with my right wing Christian aunt.
Be above it. A lot of people need the security that religion provides and you're lucky enough to be of sufficient internal strength to not need it. No need to stomp on the ants unless they're actually biting you. After I got rid of my anger at religion (which still sparks from time to time admittedly) I began to just let it go. I look past the offensive part and try to accept whatever nice feeling might be nestled in there somewhere. No need to give them a lease to space in my head.
One of my best friends is extraordinary Christian and says those same things to me, also knowing I'm athiest. It bothers me sometimes because frankly rather tired of it. But he is so sweet and means well. I don't argue. lately I've just taken to ignoring it and changing the subject. I wish he didn't talk so much about church and such. We might have been able to have a more intimate relationship but I just can't tolerate the jargon. Needless to say, I still love him.
She is using an old trick to try and get you back to god and religion again. She thinks if things happen for a reason and you get your wishes you are blessed by the invisible man. When things fall in line for you it proves it and you just have to go with god, but that's not how it works at all.
I'm "blessed" and the "god" helping me is myself. This is so because I keep what I am looking for in my mind somewhere and soon I find it. This is so if it is new or in a resale shop. It happened to me today and I found what I was looking for because I gave it all my attention. I found it in 2 days.
Also, things DO happen for a reason. The reason might be just like I have said above. If you stumble you might fall so you have to be careful how and where you walk. No invisible being is guiding you in any of this. It is just you yourself. You create your purpose in life and you create your reason.
I think it makes some of them very condescending and talk down about us "foolish atheists/agnostics" something about that dumb bible verse telling them not to throw pearls before swine... they consider what they believe to be pearls of wisdom they must share with us.... morons >
I also had a friend tell me yesterday that I'm very blessed. I wanted to ask who or what did the blessing and bestowed all this happiness on me, but I held my tongue. He's Hindu and believes God is in everyone.
Okay, well, I was in a bad situation, got out of it on my own, created my new situation, and worked out my own problems or let them go, on my own, and I feel I deserve the credit, not some supernatural deity. BUT if it helps him to see a job well done by his God, then whatever. I guess it helps him keep his faith.
I don't like this "God" getting credit when it's the hard work and sacrifice of those helping themselves and others who deserve the credit for happy circumstances. But since I make it clear to all who listens to me that God is fiction, or a metaphor, or an unknowable, they can interpret that any way they like.
Congratulations on fixing your own problems without "benefit" of the supernatural.
Sometimes itβs just wiser to go along with this sort of behaviour...I probably would have done much the same. I donβt really think Iβd call this condescension, I presume the caring goes both ways and that the lady cares about you too. Itβs hard for some people to grasp the concept that godβs hand is not In everything we achieve and that we are part of some masterplan. If someone actually believes this, then even if we tell them that we donβt believe in god, it doesnβt alter their view that regardless of that fact, god is guiding our actions and achievements. I have learned to just keep my own thoughts to myself when someone who is otherwise kindly and caring comes out with some similar remark to me, it just seems pointless to argue as it makes no difference to what either of you believe, but can cause some awkwardness between you,
I do not consider that I am "going along" with this, I am ignoring it for the nonsense that it is.
@jlynn37 your prerogative.
I think it's a balance. I try my best not to take a militant stance on my atheism. After all, I need to get along with the talking monkeys generally. We don't have to go to every fight we're invited to.
So, from my perspective, the OP handled the situation fine by my book. They indicated this is a person they care about. Was the statement designed to announce faith? Sure. Was it designed to irritate? I don't think so - it was a gentle reminder that Jebus Loves Us (patent pending, void where prohibited). Easy enough to smile and be polite. I don't believe that every person who tells me to have a "blessed" day is part of the Wedge Strategy.
I'd say "That's not a nice thing to say. We should instead give due credit, respect, and honor to the real people who helped me, directly or indirectly, knowingly or unknowingly."
And leave it at that.
My wife is deeply religious while I evolved into becoming an atheist. I donβt take offense when someone tells me theyβre praying for me, or God is in control, etc. Too many people dear to me believe. And listening to their religious views is simply the price I pay for keeping them in my life. But I do point out Iβve never seen scientists or atheists going door to door trying to convert people to their disbelief...
I think if it's someone you care about, you just make a concession for their lack of reasoning skill for the sake of the freindship, no differently than if you loved hiking and she was physically unable to participate in that activity with you. I have a vast number of friends who say similar things to me, and I usually just respond with something like, "Yes, I consider myself very fortunate...but I don't attribute it to anyone blessing me or some invisible entity helping me." I always like the ones who want to pray for me. ..I just tell them I really appreciate that they care enough about me to wish me well, whatever the method. After all, they're just exercising their own superstitions, and not trying to force me to participate, so what do I care? Their friendship is still important to me regardless of what some of their shortcomings may be.
The evangelical in her just coming out. There is that compulsion to try to bring you to god...somehow. It is a deep disrespect for anyone that is "unsaved" so it is condescending. Even very nice people have it...because, dammit, they are the sheep and you are a goat.
Yes, religion is patronizing, being after all predicated upon claims of divine authority and gnosis.
in my experience, belief in a god does not make one condescending, but belief in a religion that insists that you convert everyone sure does. not everyone who believes in a god makes that belief the center of his/her life. i know plenty of people who go about their business without referring to god at all in public, and probably don't spend all their private time praying either. i also know some who can't go to the bathroom without asking god if it's a good idea. there is a difference.
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