My little girl made it three years without religious ideas being taught to her. Apparently now she is getting them from somewhere, probably my brother. The other day she asked me, what does God look like? Then a little later she said, did you know that Christmas is . . . Someone's birthday? My mode of operation is to not shut my kids down so I just asked her a few questions and let it go. We have conversations occasionally about what is make believe and what is real and she seems to have a pretty good grasp on what's what. Still, it makes me wonder about navigating the rest of her childhood with her.
I think it's best for kids to be raised in faith. Then as an adult a person has the full capacity to decide what their own beliefs are. Not that you yourself have to be a churchgoer, but that you don't crush your child's belief.
@Marcel3405 Why let children believe in Santa Claus? Noone can prove or disprove the existence of God. I think it's more useful to children to believe. If they have a strong desire to have a relationship to God he may just show himself to the individual. You do hear people say they have experienced such things and who is anyone else to claim the experience is bogus?
Hmmm Flowewall. Have you Noticed the ages and experiences of most people here? Have you read their stories?
@twill Yes, I have read some as I come across the stories. Haven't done a methodical study. No two people are ever on the exact same path and the exact same time.
Do you mean faith in a religion? If so, why would I instill a faith in religion as opposed to a belief in logic, and let them consider religion as an adult? After all, a major trait of religion is it's teaching NOT to think for themselves, thus negating any chance that they'll opt out later.
@powder, @Lauren You can present the viewpoint very neutrally saying "some people believe " without betraying yourself, your own ideas. Definitely logic. I don't necessarily mean believe what any one religion teaches, but leave the possibility open to idea of God. I know a lot of people fall into believing what others believe and that is a danger to just follow along blindly, but I think the risk of that drops if it's managed right. Surely talk about the negative in religion too, war, abuse, etc.
@Flowerwall I disagree. I have presented the facts of religions, and how people interpret them, to my children, and I have done it without being snide or derogatory. But there is no way I could encourage them to be open to the possibility of a god, and I have told them why. Pretty much exactly as @powder explained.
@Lauren Well Lauren, you are certainly entitled to parent your children in the way you feel best. And hopefully those choices are made in the best interests of your children at most all times. The fact that you have given thought to it and had these conversations shows that you are already ahead of a large part of people who give it little thought at all. I know I personally struggle with an extreme sense of not being able to reconcile an existant God and all the bad in the world both past and present. I still leave the possibility open, but only to a God that embodies goodness.
"The other day she asked me, what does God look like?" Tell her to ask someone who has seen him.
Ha, ha!
Someday we'll have the "Is god real or imaginary" discussion. That should be entertaining.
Excellent answer. Love it.
Lol, I'd say "oh every day is a birthday to someone. In fact the most important and most influential person of all time was born on Cristmas day: Isaac Newton."
Wow, @UpsideDownAgain, you did really great - congrats! Thinking about maintaining that calm, unflappable logic for the long-haul can sometimes seem intimidating, but my experience is that it can be done. Imagine the surprise on your brother's face some day when your daughter shuts him down with logic.
Now that's an image I can happily dwell on!
I had the same issue with my daughter when she was young. She was going to pre-school and came home with all kinds of things that people taught their children. What helped was that these same people were telling the kids that characters like the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus also existed. I had long ago explained to her how they were imaginary and how parent "fool" their kids about them until they get old enough to stop believing in imaginary characters. God was just one of those imaginary characters that parents "fool" to their kids about and many of them will grow up and stop believing that too.
I found the word "fool" works better than "lie" when it's being translated by a child. My daughter told some kids that their parents lied to them and that created a big problem, but when my daughter told them that their parents were fooling with them, it mitigated the issue quite a bit. But either way, parents didn't like my 5 year old telling their kids that the imaginary characters they were "fooling" them with weren't real.
This is a great suggestion. Thank you.
I love your "fooling them" idea! I wish I'd thought of it when my daughter was little.
I grew up in the Christian church and was extremely fascinated by Greek Mythology. Christian adults act weird when a child tells them extensive lore about gods and goddesses that they profess they know aren't real.
This woman stared at me like I was Satan for telling her about Poseidon parting cliffs in the old movie "Jason and the Argonauts." I assured her I knew that was fiction, but still, that stare.
My point is that kids know the difference between reality and make believe.
And looking back, perhaps another point is Christians do not love the idea of children learning about "false religions," because that may lead to skepticism and questioning.
Good point. I believe learning about Greek Mythology as a kid was one factor that lead me to skepticism. I uses to wonder theyre gods were considered to be made up but the Christian god wasnt...
@AlfonseCapone I've always been fascinated by religions, I guess I still am but in much the same way that I viewed Greek Mythology as a child.
@AlfonseCapone, @Seeker3CO I suppose so. At the time I believed that a donkey talked because god wanted it to and speaking snakes ruined eternal bliss in the garden of Eden or some such nonsense. But that was the "reality," I was brought up in. My reasoning ability wasn't quite to the level it needed to be.
@JMLatimer Thats way I view them also. Just really entertaining stories...
Check the tv. My son at that age, a little younger, caught an evangelicalist one morning as I slept. He would get up on Sunday and pull a poured glass of milk and a bowl of cereal from the fridge and settle himself in for early morning cartoons. One morning he stopped to listen to some asshole telling everyone they were going to Hell.
From all appearances Religion will be with us for a very long time! And I believe we should always tell our children the truth. Children need to have their parents calming explain certain religious ideas that they have been exposed to from the outside. And ask questions that will help them to think! Truth will win out in the long run...and that is what we want to hand our children, ideas that will last in the long game! But, take care not to use your personal disgust in your dealings with a child and make sure that they feel secure and safe. Best of luck!
I would say that the most important thing to do is not to make too big a issue of it, my parents hardly ever talked about religion and any mention of it, was usually met with a disinterested shrug of the shoulders.
And I know this may sound counter intuitive, but it would be a good idea to expose her to as many different religions as possible. Take her to a Hindu festival for example and say. "We don't believe this but its still fun, isn't it ?" When once the idea that religion is fun but meaningless is planted, the next step, the understanding that its all just fancy Santa Claus, will fall into place automatically, when she's old enough.
That ‘automaticity,’ may come with a caution...a lot of growup minds seem like they got ‘overbaked!’
You can give her the correct history of the Bible - how a few gangsters’ lies destroyed multiple empires.
I remember when my niece was only seven years old and tried to "save" me. It breaks my heart every time I hear some little kid spouting religious crapola.
This. My great niece has attended a private Lutheran school since she was tiny, and when she was five she explained to me at length how people without Jesus would be "lost." Her little voice cracked and raised in panic as she talked about it and I, who could say nothing to contradict her parents' wishes, had a knot in my throat for the rest of the day.
@Deb57 I couldn't say anything either since her mother was so Christ-y. I knew where she'd gotten it but it was sad hearing it come out of the mouth of such a little kid. Today that little girl is a fully grown woman and a Jesus freak.
@Deb57 So sad.
The absolute WORST thing you could do it to try to keep her from learning anything about religion or to come right out with religious people being fools. (Yes, I know they are!)
In my opinion, there are some things that kids need to learn on their own. Sometimes with very careful guiding by parents. I can remember going to my parents early to mid teens and before with religious questions. They gave me books to read and yes, several of them were different versions of the bible. I even found a few versions that read a little easier than the ones they gave me. I struggled for years to find my own answers.
It is the struggle and self discovery that is the important thing here. With that, your daughter can defend herself with what SHE has learned and feel comfortable the rest of her life. Not just parrot, "That's what my family believes!"
Just my .02 and guaranteed worth at least as much!
Thanks so much for sharing your experience. I'll keep it in mind as I help her learn.
Many cultures created god figures when they could not explain some of the unknowable answers. The 25th of December was the birthday of many of these gods, as this is the day (in the northern hemisphere) that the rebirth of the annual return of the Sun can be seen. If you want to worship a "God", our star, the Sun is the only real physical form there is, everything else is make believe heresay!!!
Little can be done about family or close friends making references to such things that reach little ears and brains. They're going to encounter it as part of the environment away from home. If, however, someone out of the family loop is attempting to indoctrinate her or any child, a case might be made for child abuse. Seriously, to interfere without parental consent (parents already do enough damage on their own), with a child's perceptual and critical thinking faculties is to harm them.
A parent's job is to protect and foster a child's healthy development. Toying with their vulnerable perceptual apparatus is not a joking matter. Making fools of them isn't a healthy, 'fun' activity. It is a violation of instinctive trust and developmental dependence. For a non-related person to interfere with such things goes beyond mere familial 'good intentions'. There are evangelizing fanatics who license themselves to do those things with the misguided delusion that is obeying the wishes of an invisible 'friend'. It is predatory, regardless of the reason.
The thing about kids is their inner fears and worries are set at an early age, small things that occur either within the family or from an outside source formulate their thinking. Likewise their inner strength and guidance. Always tell the truth, Always listen and believe your child. By way of example, I am an identical twin. We were sent off to the Methodist church, mom's religion, as apposed the Catholic church where my dad's family goes. I rejected the church by the time I was 12. At 13 you can become confirmed with the church, again I totally rejected the church but my twin sister choose to be confirmed. She is a church goer to this day and yes she voted for trump.
By the time we were born my dad was atheist and mom only dropped us off at the door of the church on Sundays. Neither parent actively promoted religion.
I'm just saying that even one's best efforts either way do not always meet with what a parent may want. The kid/adult will decide what they want to think or believe. You can simply provide facts and reading material.
I never bothered teaching much about religion when my children were young. I just worried about helping them to think and determine what was fact and fiction. They are both atheist. No indoctrination was necesary, not to suggest that you think it is needed.
Thanks! That's what I'm leaning toward as well.
You may want to protect your child from religious ideas, but really we cannot as they are in the air, especially at this time of year.
My tack on this with my kids was to expose them to different religions on religious holidays. To explain a lot of people believe a lot of different things about God and the nature of our universe. This also served as a cross cultural education.
Eventually, at the age of reason, they asked me more than "do you believe that?", and asked me "well, what do you believe?"
They grew up to be Agnostic/Deists x2 and an Atheist, all of whom are considerate of others religious beliefs while holding none.
I see your concern but the only thing I see that you can do to counter this is continue to have conversations with her about what is real and what is make believe. I say it this way because a more aggressive approach might drive her right into the open arms of religion. Back to your talks with her, make those conversations clever without direct denial and do it in a way where she can figure it out.
When we did Religious Education at high school we learnt about all religions, or as many as the teacher could accomodate. I did a project on a religion of my choice, I think I might have asked my dad for ideas, but ended up finding a book on Rastafarianism, which was interesting to learn about.
I wouldn’t worry about providing information, it’s providing a variety of ideas and views that’s important.
My parents were/ are both Church of England and my brother and I both went to church and Sunday school as kids. Now he’s Atheist and I’m agnostic atheist, so we’d say reason prevailed.
They do not do that in the states, you would require a liberal private school for that. Public schools do not have the funding for Math.
Niether do they teach Civics, when that was common in the 60's, it began declining in the 70's and does not exist in most public schools anymore. This latter really shows in the nations reaction to impeachment. They do not really understand government, and it is very easy to fear/hate that which you do not understand.
Public school is not for educating children, it is for conditioning them to conform or acquiesce to authority and have their heads filled with nonsense pseudo-science so they call fact providers deniers for not being on script. It always has been the responsibility of parents to provide everything for their children including a real education. A shame so many are just adult children with no clue how to parent these days. Society suffers as a result. SMH
@Davesnothere I had to look up the meaning of civics, we didn’t get taught that either, although it gets taught if you have to do the citizenship test: which seems to lead to some double standards really. E.g. Newcomers are taught that they need to respect others and their beliefs, but indigenous English don’t always seem to know that this is expected of them!
@girlwithsmiles I think the citizenship test ought to be mandatory for High School.
@Davesnothere me too, I wanted to learn about it when my mum was doing it, it looked really interesting.
I would teach her to test everything to discover whether it is true or false. I would even guide her through testing the Bible, demonstrating that it is not credible. It is as mythological as the ancient Greek and Roman gods.
I like your suggestion. I would imagine that's probably the most effective thing I could do.