“I’m not perfect, I’m just forgiven” is the most enabling statement ever made!
Christians often attack atheist for not having morality. Yet I hear “I’m not perfect I’m just forgiven”. If one is simply forgiven for their wrong doings then there is no accountability what so ever. It is the doctrine that all sins are forgiven that enables believers to do anything they want despite morality.
I am an atheist. I do not believe in an after life or forgiveness from a magical god.
I am fully accountable for my actions and expect consequences for my actions. I have only one life and I have to do it right. Whatever wrong doings I do I have to live with and be cognizant that after I die my actions may still affect others.
The Just forgiven philosophy is the exactly the opposite of accountability and justice. Justice simply can not stand up to being "just forgiven" for your wrong doings.
Just being “just forgiven” requires no remorse, justice, morality, humanity or a god. It is a cop out that actually encourages self righteous, bigoted behaviors from those who feel enlightened, gifted, or specially empowered by their religion or God to actually judge others.
How does being “just forgiven” make any one or their morality better? How could it?
How can anyone who believes they are just forgiven make any judgments on anyone as they actually profess with this moral standard a complete lack of morality and standards?
I am told to believe that Jesus already died for my wrong doings. Then this is not Justice but a license to do more harm without consequences. Preachers and theologians try dance around this by saying that we should try not to sin but we are covered if we do. Again this is not forgiveness but an enabling teaching in which any horrific action or behavior can be forgiven, again and again. This is not loving at all. It teaches no justice, and places the burden of guilt upon those wronged for NOT forgiving their rapist etc. If Jesus died so that rapist can be forgiven and enabled to continue their behaviors and hurt other people, I want no part of it. There is simply no incentive for people of this belief system to actually improve themselves or to stop hurting other people.
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35 comments (26 - 35)
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Evil and insane don't even cover it. These people are dangerous.
We must find a cure or at least a treatment. And impose it against their will.
Not that they have a discernible self anymore; they have become a numbered drone in the Christian colllective.
racocn8
Level 9
Jan 2, 2020
1
I have to agree!
Since Christians often attack atheists for not having morality, therefore atheists should attack Christians for being hypocrites.
Another option would be to live in ecstasy and joy through each passing moment and make no negative judgments.
WilliamFleming
Level 8
Jan 2, 2020
1
Maybe we speak from a place of truth, but not judging, but from my experience anything that does not line up with Evangelical learnings, is abomination to them! They are their thoughts...not people that have thoughts! I have seen very few change, with or without my input!
@Freedompath “Truth” is slippery. Everyone in an argument thinks he is on the side of truth. Maybe the trick is to rise above verbal conflict by understanding both sides.
I would also point out that not all Christians are the same and that many of them do not consider you an abomination. I question also that you are homing in on Evangelicals when Catholics and others are basically the same.
@WilliamFleming I learned that there are Evangelical Catholics. McConnell is appointing judges to our courts from the Federalist Society, which is an Evangelical Catholic supported org! (The bar association could not even approve of most of them, for that position.).
I agree that all Christians are not the same. But, from my personal experience being in the mist of so many in my 80 yrs (nearly), there is limited critical brain function. And, they are not bad people. But, if needed in a complicated situation, these people will judge black and white, and cannot assimilate all the grey area that is present in any matter! It is like they are ‘stuck’ or will just ‘settle’ because it is too complicated to delve deeply into, certain matters! Therefore their judgements are flawed...not always, but on the ‘whole!’
In my 15 years with private duty nursing, I have been privileged to spend quality time in the personal space of the wealthy and the not so wealthy, and the brain works the same in all humans, just education and social order distinguish each.
@WilliamFleming I don’t believe ‘truth’ is a ‘slippery slope’ for me! I do know that each person has their story and that I believe, needs to be heard. But, I could never accept ‘evil actions’ in their stories as truth! I know the difference in ‘universal truths’ and truth that hangs in the details...that keeps evolving.
I also don’t believe that Evangelicals or any religious people believe that I am an ‘abomination’...but I have found them to dissect me through the lens of their religion and not see me as a ‘fellow traveler’ on this road of life. They dismiss me, as a person which is hurtful!
@WilliamFleming ‘understanding both sides,’ I have never been able to understand ‘the side,’ where a person can kill their spouse, their child, their neighbor or perfect strangers! That is a brain disorder of the worst kind, and only scientists who are studying this problem can kinda see why it happens! And there are other behaviors that fall under brain malfunction, like my deceased schizophrenic sister, who’s brain never normalized in her 78 yrs!
@Freedompath I see what you mean and I agree. I’ll never agree with some opinions and I’ll never approve of some actions. The best I can hope for is to understand the people involved.
As an analogy, suppose there is a rabid dog loose in the neighborhood. That dog is a threat, and it would be a duty to shoot if on sight. Anger or hatred would be completely misplaced. An understanding of the disease and how it causes unwanted behavior—that is all that’s needed.
I do think that there are some positive aspects to religion in general, and that some religions are very beneficial.
@WilliamFleming I am not thinking of people and animals with the same understanding. Fear always comes before anger anyway...but humans who have developed properly, can proceed from their initial fear, and logically assess a situation and make a ‘best action’ judgement. However, improperly functioning brains cannot do that! Sometimes, anger will be felt! Like today, after I swallowed my fear, from trump ordering that strike to kill the Iranian Commander...now I am angry! This fool is going to put our military in harms way, and now all of America is in danger! First thing this morning I had a text asking ‘what the hell has trump done,’ from my friend in Japan! This is angry making, but first came the fear!
Well thought out. With many religious folk supporting the current administration especially evangelicals, when conversation turns to such things my standard comeback is to point to the overwhelming hypocrisy of those folks in that they are the ones that have no moral standard. I might also point out how immoral their holy book actually is, supporting slavery, genocide and other purely immoral actions.
gearl
Level 8
Jan 2, 2020
1
I’ve never really understood what ‘perfect’ means. Sounds like a bit of a weasel word. Throw it into a sentence to disarm.
‘I’m not perfect’ implies humility or is that misguided piety.
‘I am perfect’ implies arrogance rather than self-confidence.
You can’t win. The word is loaded and no one really knows what it means. Perhaps ditch it from the lexicon!
Geoffrey51
Level 8
Jan 2, 2020
1
Lucky I'm here to explain what perfect is. I have been telling my children that I AM PERFECT for 20 years. So just aks them what I am like! And I'm modest too.
I really like the way you explained it. Spot on!
As I have heard that statement so-o many times in the past...I would venture to say that you will never remove that ‘I am not perfect,’ from the Evangelicals. That goes hand in hand, with ‘i’m saved!’
Religious principals are generally in line with what makes their particularly organization attractive to potential recruits. Doesn't have to be morally correct or even in line with their other principals or whats best for society as a whole. Hypocrisy is not in their vocabulary.
rogueflyer
Level 8
Jan 2, 2020
1
Oddly enough, hypocrisy is the last thing that would come to their minds. I say this a former wacko!
You cover a lot of complicated issues. Morals can be complicated to explain. There can be different morals that conflict with each other.
Laws and rules are very much just arbitrary. Here is an example of a specific state law that you might not find in any other state. FLORIDA: People who own bars, restaurants, and other places where liquor is sold, may be fined up to $1,000 if they participate in or permit any contest of dwarf-tossing. Yes, tossing the little people as a contest is illegal in Florida.
Justice is a topic you mentioned, but if you study recidivism - the tendency of a convicted criminal to reoffend, there is a lot of reoffending even after justice has punished someone. What is the point of justice if justice does not work to stop re-activity of a crime already once punished for?
And, what if it is not illegal in Georgia to toss dwarfs? By America laws, if it is not against the law then people cannot be brought to justice by the American legal system. So, dwarf tossing can go on harming many small people that try leaving Florida in the spring to migrate north for summer.
Word
Level 8
Jan 2, 2020
0
It's a magic spell. They say the magic words and receive immunity (sounds trumpian). Of course, the magic words aren't really enough - they have to conform to the community standards or the community will revoke the immunity. It's all really a community thing. The "everlasting life" is an inducement to force conformity within the group.
BitFlipper
Level 8
Jan 2, 2020
0
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