Good thoughts. I’d say god is not just values in general, but the one value that rises above all the rest. For most of us it’s some kind of abstraction, like autonomy, or personal sovereignty.
When you dropped bearded man, you were in effect placing truth above delusion, or something like that, right? So, functionally speaking, truth is at least higher than bearded man in the ranking. Pinning it down to a single thing can be difficult, but in practice, something more often wins out over just about everything else. No?

@Allamanda
What you gain is a view of human history that affords consonance with your fellow humans, where once only dissonance stood.

@skado It does not mater what your highest value is. If it is scientific truth, money or kindness, you should call it scientific truth, money and kindness, if only for the sake of accuracy. Giving it the name of a brearded man in the sky, is just an unneeded and sometimes dangerous complication which gets in the way of that accuracy.

And metaphorically it is such an old worn out symbolic metaphor, most kids get past that sort of play with words by the time they reach fourteen. It is Orwellian double speak, which does not really work, since words just change their meanings when misused to aline once again with popular prejudice. All that happens is that it makes it harder for people to understand history, if you force the language to change, and with that you loose the most important of all sourses of wisdom, understanding the past.

@Fernapple
Watch Vervaeke, and get back with me. Science is moving past that 1960s paradigm.

@Allamanda
Had what?

@skado I have watched him, quite a lot, and the more I see the more I am nauseated, his creepy demeanor is too much, and his obvious self satisfaction at having conned Toronto Uni. into giving him what is no doubt a very good income, riding on the back of their need to appear inclusive, regardless of the quality of their output is truely sickening.

Yes science is certainly moving forward, but fortunately not in Vervaeke's direction. His seventies-ish woo long since looked as dated, as the super engineering science of the sixties, and soon he and his like will hopefully be sidelined. People who are unable to move on, and are still trying to keep alive the long discredited fringe cultures of my adolescent years, (Which most outgrew years ago discussing the marriage of religion and science, with youthful naivety and bloshiness in the common room while the sensible kids played 'pong' in the background.) because they have no real moral compass, and it helps them to delude an good living and a degree of prestige, where they can find people and institutions who are vunerable to exploitation. Life is too short to waste on that sort of shit.

@Fernapple
Bloshiness. That's a new one on me.

Why do you engage my posts? Why do you waste life on this sort of shit?

@skado For fun, but mainly in the hope that it may be of some use to someone else in their journey. If they disagree with me or think me foolish, it does not matter, I am far enough down my path not to care about that, as long as it gives them some food for thought or a helping hand on their journey, it is enough even if they tread me down, because now I am on the level fields it will not push me back even if I am trampled on, as long as they gain a step forward by doing so.

@Fernapple
Ah, soldiering for truth! I KNEW we had something in common!
Soldier on, brother!

@skado I see it more as emptying my basket of seeds to see what will grow, than soldiering, I care not what people do with what grows even if they kill it as a weed, as long as my basket is empty at days end and something grows. But I do try to sow good seed and would never resort to deliberately sowing weeds.

@Fernapple
Nice metaphors.

@skado Brace yourself, one of my long boring ones coming up in the next day or two.

I abandoned my already quite lax religious upbringing at 14, and have lived my whole adult life without a god concept. I’m 70 now, and it has only been in the last couple of years that I have, for the first time in my life, started to understand and appreciate religious symbology. It was not a part of my religious training. It is a philosophical perspective; not a belief system. It’s not about sky-daddys and afterlifes. It’s about art and psychology and philosophy. I’m not trying to make statements about how things are. I’m just sharing a perspective. I respect that other perspectives are just as valid for those who hold them.

@skado I respect that...I in no way intended my response to demean your ideas or perspectives. As individuals we are diverse and our thoughts and philosophies differ accordingly, This is part of what makes life interesting and human beings so fascinating to me. It’s good to be able to exchange views and hear how others differ in theirs, I understand that you are sharing yours with us and I appreciate that.

Watch me!

Ouch! You assume he is not a hornet's nest stirrer.......

I hope you're not averse to a little levity now and then. I didn't have time to give a serious response this morning, but I'd like to try now.

I don't see why everything a person writes has to be in the same tone. It's good if a post is internally consistent, but why can't a person write poetry in the morning and prose in the evening? Sometimes I post jokes in the silly section - do they have to comport with my more serious commentary too?

With the etymology piece I was riffing on word root origins as a frame for presenting some related ideas. Never did I say or suggest that we are somehow bound to those origins and may not stray beyond them. It was a stylistic mechanism; not a declaration of immutable fact, or an effort to prove anything.

I don't think it's realistic to expect a person to adhere to a single style for everything they write.

Obviously, root origins are not the only meaning inherent in a word.

And just as obviously, the word god has a very long usage history of meaning exactly what I was suggesting in the other piece. The American Heritage Dictionary lists exactly that meaning as:

4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
   [ahdictionary.com]

It's the very reason I used Clapton as the image, instead of some renaissance painting of God. Most words have more than one meaning. There is no conflict inherent in looking at them from different angles. It's not about trying to prove anything: it's just a way to open a discussion.

@AnneWimsey Oh. He knows what I am. LOL

@skado I did not say there was a change in tone, I said contradicts.

I posted this at the top but will put it here too, for Ann's benefit, in the hopes she does not already think I am boring enough.

You see you are writing this on the wrong site, most people on this site do not use the word god just because they don't believe in one, but mainly because they are also too honest to believe in one.

God is a word used by dishonest people, (religious) in exactly the way you describe, to give added authority, to things which do not deserve to have any authority. Most people on this site have already seen that problem and moved on past it.

@Fernapple
You're assuming I make the same associations with the word God that you do, but that is just not the case. For me it's just a figure of speech, with no power to confer authority to anything. As I said in the OP, if you'd prefer to use a different word, then by all means, do so. It is only when you stop giving that word power that you are truly free from it.

@skado Then if it means nothing and has no power why use it at all, especially if it muddies the etymology of others words which are clear and much better defined to start with.

And also when the use of any word in any circumstance, always lends support to those who do regard it as powerful, by making their sphere larger.

@Fernapple
I didn't say it had no meaning. I use it because I'm not afraid of seeking commonality with those I disagree with. I'm not afraid to lend support to others. I think there's more strength in unity than in division. I like art, history, and culture. I like texture and nuance. I like complexity and adventure. I like life.

Not a literal one, but very much a metaphorical one.

No values?

@skado I could choose to have values but it might make me judgemental

Well chosen words!

@OwlInASack - Ha! At least it's not Johnny Walker...

I'm not much of a scotch drinker; the Macallans was gifted to me - but I know enough to taste the difference there.

In hindsight (something that Cats are particularly good at), I should have gone the Gordons/Sipsmith gin route...

@OwlInASack - Tanqueray works, no opposition there.

I just recently sampled Hendricks and was quite impressed. Sipsmith is nice as it has accents of olive and sage; it makes an outstanding martini. I also ran across an interesting gin from Greece called Grace - it has a smoky, slick (but not oleaginous) feel with hints of orange; I found it makes tasty G&T with orange instead of lime. And Monkey 47 makes a great G&T as well!

NYC has seen a resurgence of gin bars popping up lately; the Winston on East 14th Street is my "go to" place to sample gin. This makes this Cattus very happy.

@OwlInASack - Agreed. I had no idea that I liked G&Ts until a few years ago, when I actually had a good one. Then I was like "Where have you been all my life?!?"

It is fascinating to be a part of the recent wave of how people drink in NYC - there is a renewed emphasis on quality, nostalgia, skill, history and taste going on - and it is the Millennials who are leading the charge!

Understood - it's been a while for me skipping over the Pond, too. You guys seems to be having your own exciting times with Boris and sorting out identities as well.

I raise a glass to you; may your troubles be light and your tonics be fizzy! These asshats can't stay in office forever, let us hope the damage done can be fixed!

Oh, I had forgotten about that! Good one! I wonder how he feels about that period now.

God can mean anything

Since the word for "anything" actually exists, doesn't that mean the actual concept of god is useless, or at best repetative?

This is why I find philosophy so utterly useless.

Possibly a little I suppose, but not exclusively. God as an abstraction is a very old idea. And it’s not just anything; it’s your highest value, whatever that happens to be.

@skado and I'm a religious fundamentalist who believes my god wants all heretical nonbelievers exterminated, so my highest value is a genocidal hate filled deity?

Most believers think god, or their god, is a Being of omnipotent powers. New Agers seem to think god is "energy" or the universe or some other vague pseudo scientific thing. Both of these I think are crap. But i can see what they mean by their crap. God as a value or whatever doesn't compute to me, honestly.

Polytheist!

According to what authority?

Hee hee. You just used the word God.

@skado Only to negate it.

Jimi was definitely in the running, but the photo of a bearded Clapton in the sky seemed to fit the need so I grabbed it.

@maturin1919 I find the biblical text to be a work of genius unsurpassed. As to this fred character you think the devil would be proud of, I don't know.

@maturin1919 I don't care for reading much. You should tell this Fred character of yours that Jesus is Angelic lord of host Lucifer the devil and perhaps he wouldn't be a Christian anymore.