What do you do when expected to participate in public religious ceremonies such as prayer?
Depends on the situation. If I'm at a funeral at some place of worship, I take that moment to silently say goodbye to the departed. It's by no means a prayer and it's done strictly for me and has nothing to do with some omnipotent sky being.
If at some secular thing someone calls the group to pray (which if it's public is rare in my neck o' the woods), I get a bit ticked but say nothing and look around to see if anyone's out there "like me". Sometimes I'm rewarded with eyes met and rolled.
When it comes to saying grace around the table, which my uncle likes to do at family gatherings, I just watch him and listen. He thanks his god for his family and gives individual "shout outs" if you've gone through some rough stuff: this Xmas it was me, as this summer I was in the hospital for 3 weeks. His thanking his god for my surviving was heartfelt. I mean hey he's corny and sometimes long-winded and even a bit silly. BUT he's sweet & sincere & feels the genuine love and wants to let us know it, and this is how he puts it out there. Who am I to deny him that?
If it's "going through the motions" bullshit prayer yeah I roll my eyes. But when it's sincere I give it its own appreciation, even if i do feel it does nothing but make the "prayee" feel better. Let 'em have it.
It may be as a result of being indoctrinated as a child. I do understand that many prayers are given with good intentions. I don't mind deluded people trying to do good things with good intent.
I just look around. If anyone sees me, then they are doing the same thing.
They might be the few that it is worth talking to.
My mother and siblings pray over there food , especially thanksgiving and Christmas, I just stand there with them quietly until they are done . I do the same when I have been at churches supporting my friends , just let them do there thing .
If you talk to god then that is prayer. If god talks to you then that is schizophrenia...Consider St. Paul when he was on the road to Damascus. He saw a light and heard a voice from the sky. What do you think?
I do think Paul had hallucinations and for good reason as I explain in this YouTube video.
@DavidLaDeau did a Paul even exist? IMO it's a story. The one that rhymes too is when Paul the Persecutor became Paul the Apostle hahahaha
....and then they say that the two men who helped him (Paul) over the wall of Jericho, their names were never mentioned in the bible even though they were responsible for the man that wrote most of the new testament, that these men took no credit? and that is why "we should give unto to the lord without counting sometimes" ???? That's what I heard in church in my youth. Hectic bible study!!!!! Absolute fairytale! I felt physically choked from all these stories. Indigestion! The interpretations were crazy!!! I would make notes and ask questions later, to be told by others (gullible swallowers) that I was annoying the elder, the servant of god, that drove an hour to be obedient to god. Damnnnn
A lot of teenagers that age (14 years old) are afraid to ask questions because they are frowned upon and seen to be rude and cocky,. Maybe I grew up too fast, thankfully VERY THANKFUL
@TimeOutForMe Actually as an amateur historian ( I don't get payed for it) I can tell you thst Paul more than liklely did exist. This being said he is the only Bible charactor that is universally accepted by historians and scholars to have lived out of all the Bible charactors. Of course many of the non- bible story charactors did exist but often in different times than the Bible states and their involvement in the Bible stories is almost certainly fiction.
@DavidLaDeau you see I don't "buy" that he existed.
The same way I don't believe that those that wrote the stories were "Victor's". They wrote stories to suit themselves and that is not necessarily the truth.
I think many are misled. There are perfect examples of history books written in South Africa. They were written to suit the writer's to be the Victors but the truth has a way of surfacing. There's only so long you can con people. Not that anybody "bought* those stories. We had no choice. We were" imprisoned" by a system, the same way many Christians are still imprisoned.
@TimeOutForMe Paul was just a deluded human being thst admitted to halucinations. He almist certianly lived and was the one to actually start Christianity as we know it today. Christianity would better be called something like the "Followers of Paul".
@DavidLaDeau IMHO I think these stories are cooked up. See how nice this sounds:
SAUL THE PERSECUTOR BECAME PAUL THE APOSTLE! The bible was once a bestseller! Remember? Yessssssdd
@TimeOutForMe Many real situations were so exaggerated that we will never have any idea what actually happened! It is folk lore on steroids!
@DavidLaDeau The bible is a watered down tale/s of other books from the East. The West had to have something more powerful. A whole lot of brainwashing and money!!! off the topic.
...been watching Blorange's kite trail, I'll call it, tap dancing as if everyone else are idiots. There's the facts eg twisted right before you convincing everyone it's the truth.
@TimeOutForMe still is, but I think we agree it should be in Fictional self help/abuse section.
@praytothemilkjug I would just like to make one point in defence of the King James Bible, K.J.B. Which is, that it is one of the finest works in the English language along with Shakespeare and,maybe, Coleridge's "The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner." The K.J.B. has permeated the language like no other book; apart from all of Shakespeare's output. In many ways, I don't care that it is a total work of fiction from start to finish. It has a "gravitas" which is notably lacking in other translations. I confess that I do have a "vested interest" here. The guy who suggested a new bible translation to King James I, at Hampton Court in 1604, was the Puritan, President Rainolds. He was the one-time boss of the college which I attended. The first meeting of the translators was held in "The King's Room" in that same college.
I stand mute. I respect others opinions to their religious beliefs, so don't want to interrupt their ceremony by making a scene, but won't actually be participating.
I pull myself towards myself and say nothing but not out of respect. It's the only way to keep sane when you're in their midst
Tell them its unacceptable in a polite way and that public events are secular and they can pray at private events. When i said this at a public community collegr in NC thirty years ago i was called into the chancellor's office the next day and told i was a militant Yankee atheist and my disruptions would not be tolerated. I filed a formal complaint with the dept of education. It took six months but they finally were ordered to stop. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If u don't say or do anything u can't expect things to change.
Same thing with the national anthem, I just stand there silently, and politely wait for them to finish.
That's exactly what I'd do with the national anthem, however where I'm from that's sufficient grounds for an anti-national accusation.
I just do everything in my power to be polite and not disruptive. If I’m asked to pray, I decline and say that it would be better to ask a believer to offer a prayer. If I’m coerced in any way, I would do what seems appropriate at the time on a sliding scale of passivity to more aggressive as needed.
Stay silent and explain why. That's what my children do when the coach used to make them say a prayer before each game. (Coach is a born again)
Their coach is probably violating the U.S. constitution.
@DavidLaDeau yes, its a private traveling team that he runs, and the particular team he happens to coach as his daughter is a player, school mate and friend of my children. Puts us in a very awkward position. But we discussed our atheism with him and he is fine with it, and fine with our children remaining silent. Other non religious parent there too (science teacher) who's daughter just mumbles along with them, I'm not sure why. I've told mine to just stay silent and they do NOT have to close their eyes like the others might.
@Secularman Thwn it appeara he is within his rights to do and is also accepting of your children!
@DavidLaDeau yeah true I know and if we don't like it we'd have to leave but one of my girls is their starting goalie and other is starting fullback. They love playing and I just choose to let them stay silent during his little opening prayer, I'm ok with that for now.
If they want me to stand and hold hands, I'm good with that.
But when a prayer starts, I keep my head up, eyes open, and look around thinking how brainwashed these people are by religion.
I sit and wait it out. Never had anyone question me, too bad. I would just say "Matthew 6,6"
I tend to be respectful of other people’s cultures, especially when on their turf. If I used someone else’s customs and/or ceremonies as a staging ground to make some pissy point, how is that different from them showing up in my doorstep with their little pamphlets? (On occasion, however, I have been known to offer an enthusiastic “booya!” during services where an “amen” is expected ...)
I stand there quietly and let everyone around me talk to their magical pals in the sky.
I like to think that most people when praying or saying grace are just sending good vibes to others or being grateful for their joys in life. It feels kind of weird and funny when they pretend Jesus is actually listening, but it is what they honestly believe and I just try not to disrespect. If it happens in a government agency or a state sponsored activity I always try to remind them of separation of church and state. If I find resistance, I remind them how they would feel if somebody decides to thank satan for all the evil in the world. That usually does it.
Wait quietly. I would like them to follow suit and be courteous and respectful to my beliefs as well
I stand mute, even at thanksgiving. At funerals I escape when the religious penguins arrive. I am polite, but I don't participate. I have had arguments with a couple of persons, but I simply said "I don't believe, and I don't stop anyone, why do you care, not your business"
I offered to never come to another meal at my inlaws, but would not stop my wife and the kids from visiting. That shut a pie hole. Their food sucked except for 3 things, and I can make the 1 thing they made, only better, no loss.
At Scouts I recite "the Pledge of Allegence" I never say under god, someone noticed and asked. I told the person truth, they never asked again.
At weddings I sit/stand as needed, I escape when I am allowed. I go neat clean and shaved.
By far my favorite reaction was at the local catholic churches food pantry. I had brought them maybe 3 gallons of homemade soups with lotsa good stuff. 11 homemade frozen premade ready to reheat'n'eat chicken cutlets stuffed with ham and cheeses and fresh herbs in wine sauce.
The director said I haven't seen you at church, I replied and you never will unless it is the hatch the match or the dispatch and I am in the box..
I got a stare, then why. I said I don't believe in god, not the way you do. Then they were twice as curious. I said 12 years catlick school a wife and families that believe. Doing a good deed is not just for religious people or boy scouts. Humanists do it as well. We just don't expect eternal rewards. A just and civil society will do.
Now there were 3-4 other people there, they all said nothing, but they sure loved my soups, and the director would grab me on occasion and she would beg me to make stuff. I stopped doing it for reasons not connected to that.
@praytothemilkjug love the humour around this. I especially liked "or the dispatch and I am in the box". Good one