This is not about "relationships," per se, but it about relationships between women and men.
As a woman, I have been subjected to what might be termed "casual" sexism many times in my life. This is sexism wherein men mansplain obvious issues to the little lady; often, it has been in an attempt to impress me. Now that I am old and self assured, it happens less. When it does happen though, it is always an old man who does the mansplaining.
One such incident happened a couple of years ago when I was buying a vintage cedar chest in a thrift store. As I was examining it, a man came up to me asked if I were going to buy it, and then started explaining to me what I needed to do to restore it (it needed the lid sanded down and stain/protectant applied).
I said, "Yes, I know. I have already refinished one chest and I have done quite a few other pieces. I know what to do." Regardless of what I said, he continued on with his advice (which contained aspects that were incorrect) and then, told me that his grandmother used to store quilts in a cedar chest. I replied that I was a quilter. He then tried to give me some tips on quilting, but I excused myself.
However, an incident that happened to me last week shows how a man will treat a woman and another man differently in the same situation.
I bought a vintage vanity at a thrift store and when I went to pick it up, I measured the bed of my pick-up when I got there with my handy tape measure. I then measured the vanity and with the tailgate down, the vanity could have been laid down in the bed and would have fit.
However, the old fart who seemed to think he was in control of the situation said, "Oh, no, you don't want to lay it down. No way--it needs to stand up." I said that I had bought another vanity and the guys who loaded it laid it down. "No, no, no," he said, along with a few other remarks about women not knowing how to load "things." I told him that I had hauled lots of furniture and at times, knew more about how to load it than the guys loading it, i.e. do not put lay the piece down in the bed feet first.
His remarks about women did not stop with that. I was a captive audience for about 15 minutes, and he also told me about the time he was playing in a band in CA and "the Mexicans" bombed the swimming pool at the hotel (or wherever). My monosyllabic responses were lost on him as he was in love with his voice and the story. I also realized that I had heard the story before; months ago at yet another thrift store, he held a poor woman captive while he told her the same story.
I will add the other two guys helping kept looking at him, at each other, and at me in exasperation over the guy's remarks. However, when it became clear that they were not going to contradict him and they were not going to load it as I wanted (and I did not have enough rope to secure if it were loaded standing up), I left, saying my son would be back to pick it up for me with more rope and a bigger pick-up.
When my son went to pick it up. I did not go as he and his wife were picking it up after visiting her mom in the hospital. When they drove up, I thought that they had not been able to get the vanity because it was not visible in the bed.
Of course it wasn't visible: it was laying down in the back of the pick-up.
I asked him if one of the guys who helped load it was an old man with gray hair and a gray beard.
Affirmative.
I asked him if the old fart said that the vanity should NOT be laid down in the bed.
Negative.
My son said, "It would be crazy to try to haul it standing up."
He also was not subjected to the story about the Mexicans bombing the swimming pool
And no, I did not complain to the store as the workers are not required to help load or secure furniture for legal reasons.
However, if I see the man again, I will tell him that he is full of BS. These incidents will not keep me out of thrift stores!
18
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17 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.I cringe when I hear this stuff. I've seen plenty of dudes do it.
I'm sure I have done it before, too.
My fear is that occasionally my enthusiasm about a subject and tendency to rattle off any and all tidbits of info can be interpreted as mansplaining.
Orly
Level 5
Feb 10, 2020
0
Orly:
@Gwendolyn2018 I am usually very good with body language and nonverbal cues. PTSD from childhood abuse has given me some fucking amazing people reading skills. I tend to stop and ask for her opinion once I catch myself.
I also hate being a hypocrite or acting contrary to who I perceive I am. Since I try my best not to judge (I can't help but notice apparent gender, race, etc) I actively listen and empathize to get a better understanding of what the other person is trying to say or do.
So I can do my best to try to put myself in your shoes and acknowledge it happens a lot and try not to be "that guy" but I know I occasionally fail. I just hope I can get a chance to show the person I'm not a dick afterwards, 
I've had a couple such events. In both cases, as soon as I'd had enough, I simply said, with a smile and direct eye contact :
"STOP - just stop talking now - thank you"
Perhaps it was the surprise element, or them not used to anyone shushing them - but it worked each time !
No drama, and no having to endure anything I didn't want to endure.
Granted - situations may vary, as human weirdness knows no boundaries !
evergreen
Level 8
Feb 5, 2020
1
That should work.
Remember hippies saying DON'T LAY YOUR TRIP ON OTHERs?
@Gwendolyn2018 Good for you ! Most jerks like that are hoping for shock value, and for you to get all upset. They can dish it out , but they can't take it. I call it "tiny weiner syndrome" heh-heh ...
I know of such folks ,and it seems mostly men ; seems a
form if self grandizement. Having a SUPER SIZE ego is
also very pronounced .Finding them both exhibited by
someone is a signal that further interaction is null.
I try to help others( decern and focus on WHAT THEY SAY
THEY NEED) , but my lack of self confidence causes my
approach to be timid ,and very cautious. I often seek other
sources of info and advice (objective), before I commit to
something . It could be a pattern; a sibling I have has a very
SIMPLIFIED VIEW of everything and sees NO nuances in
ALL SITUATIONS. Like a bull in a china shop.
BBJong
Level 7
Feb 5, 2020
0
@Gwendolyn2018 I recently tried to help a nieghbor(male83)put a belt on his car- he critiqued the entire process::: the problem wasn't the belt- he had to sell/ becaue it was the air condenser ( which should be operated in the winter months ) and expensive. The idea to micro manage others~ is a slippery slope
✌
Men and women both experience "casual sexism" from each other. Routinely. Unless there's a violent encounter in a particular story, I really don't have much interest in it. There were plenty of times in my own life when women assumed things about me because of my gender. Things that weren't nice. Whoopee do.
And the world is full of assholes who say mean, presumptive things, like the dude in this particular story. That, too, is whoopee do.
Shawno1972
Level 7
Feb 4, 2020
0
@Gwendolyn2018 I read some of them, although frankly that's irrelevant. You didn't strike me as the kind of person who would bother to make a complaint like this.
Imagine I complained about your gender in a similar manner - as if I would be so bold. I think there would have been a backlash. I'm aware that there are double standards on both sides of the aisle, here, you see.
I really dislike the term "manplaining." There are people of both genders who behave this way and I don't see the point in singling out one gender over another. The battle of the sexes won't be settled on an internet forum.
@Gwendolyn2018 If I had a dollar for every time a mechanic thought that he knew more than me about my car, complete with condescending tone. That's not the kind of personal testimony that will influence my skepticism on the matter at hand. Condescending, presumptive jerks are everywhere and they're non-gender-specific.
Again, let me assert my points:
-
This does not seem like an issue I would expect a strong-minded person like you to complain about.
-
Casual sexism is a fact of life for both genders and I don't see the point in underlining it here.
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I accept that there are double standards on both sides of the aisle. I wish everyone else would at least acknowledge the same.
Perhaps it feels to you like this is a thing men do more often to women because you happen to be a woman and not a man. Because you are not a man, it might not have crossed your mind that you may be missing the other side of the coin. After all, feminism, by it's very nature, is deliberately a one-sided way of seeing the world. Fair enough, but let's not pretend it's altruistic on the point.
I have learned a lot from the feminist movement. I have learned many good things that have caused me to reflect on my own upbringing and improve my own way of looking at things. However, I have also learned that many in the feminist movement are unwilling to accept criticism where it is due. That is its own kind of arrogance. Sometimes this stuff goes too far, and I sincerely hope all people involved in any cause have enough emotional maturity and durability to strap on some dignity and grace about it. There are way too many "finger-pointerers," and that is no way to further a cause.
You seem like one of the good folk, to me, and so I'm going to hold you to a higher standard.
Or maybe I'm just mansplainin'. 
@Gwendolyn2018 I'm curious and maybe a little skeptical about this statement:
"And I will be happy to use a non-gender specific term when one is normalized."
Rather than mansplaining? Let me challenge you on that. If you had the power to normalize any term you wanted, what would you choose instead? What do you think would more accurately characterize the struggle, as it were, and why?
@Gwendolyn2018 I have spent considerable time now reading through the other comments, so, yes, I feel I have a grasp on your point. Just to make sure:
- You agree that men and women both do this thing called "mansplaining," but in your experience you feel men have done it to you more than women.
- You agree that this sort of thing happens between other classifications of people, i.e. older to younger, specialists toward generalists, etc.
For the record, I have understood these points from the beginning of my participation on this thread. I do not dispute them.
Now I would ask that you give more considerations to my points, which do not contradict the above. I shan't repeat them, because I don't know how to make them clearer. I gave it my best shot. So I'll take a different approach.
"Manplaining" as a word needs to go. It is divisive, rude, and ironically it is in itself a form of sexism that lends itself to rampant misunderstanding, just as the term "womansplaining" would be to women. It is too easy to hand-wave any conversation (even this one) away as "mansplaining" with an instant rejection of what may or may not be true about it. I see this happen all the time now, and that is absolutely absurd to me. How the hell are we supposed to deal with each other in a mature manner with terms like that bandied around at whim?
Maybe you're using the term "appropriately," as you see it. But others here have described their own dislike of the term for reasons identical to mine, so clearly I'm not alone. I don't think the term can ever be used appropriately.
Just as you have a pet peeve, so do I. I'm not going to assume anyone wants my respect, but if they do, they ought to seriously consider abandoning this irresponsible term. It has no place in civil, cooperative, polite conversation. It was never meant to. It's intentionally derisive.
Toss it out the fucking window already.
That is what I meant by holding you to a higher standard.
@Gwendolyn2018 You stated, "On reconsidering the issue of "splaining," though, "mansplaining" should be used when it is a male doing the splaining and "womansplaining" when a woman is doing it."
How about don't use either? There's no real point in drawing such lines whatsoever.
Makes about as much sense to use those terms as it would to state you are "EnglishTeacherplaining" to me right now.
Be done with it all, already. 
@Gwendolyn2018 Whoop, sorry, we're getting our continuity messed up a little bit here. We must feel pretty passionately about the thing. You said:
"I will use the term "men/women who give unwanted advice and explanations" and will work on creating a new term that is non-sexist but easier to use."
Someone on another comment gave an example of two better potential terms. I liked both of those.
@Gwendolyn2018 I can expect most men won't find the term offensive...until, that is, it is used on them without merit as a tool to shut down a conversation or turn the tables on then unfairly in a debate. Then they'll see it for what it has become - just another way to navigate around reasonable discussion when it's convenient to do so. I have been accused of "mansplaining" for a few unreasonable offenses that have nothing to do with your particular pet peeve.
That, as I stated, is my primary objection - among many. You'll admit it's a fair objection.
I see the use of the term "mankind" as objectively different from the use of the N word. Since our language has plenty of residual gender tense left over from certain borrowed pieces of Romantic and Germanic languages, a lot of shortcuts have been developed. That's not to excuse them, and they should be updated, but I see it as a significantly different degree of issue relative to using a racial slur to intentionally cause emotional harm. The two just don't seem qualitatively equal to me at all. Just my take on it.
The guy with the refinishing advice illustrates a pattern I have fallen into myself. Please don't shit all over me for telling this.
Men like me don't know how to start a conversation with a woman we want to meet. But we have been taught that we might offer something of value to earn a woman's attention, so we sometimes find ourselves offering unsolicited advice. Once that interaction begins it's hard to break out of. The intent is sincere, and it seems much more respectful than a "pickup line", but nobody likes unsolicited advice.
Anyway, offering unsolicited advice is a tempting but unfortunate trap. Men who do it aren't necessarily harassing you. They might just want to meet you.
That's what I saw in the case of the cedar chest.
BitFlipper
Level 8
Feb 4, 2020
1
Perhaps you could hold him captive telling him how to load "old farts" in a pick up!
DavidLaDeau
Level 8
Feb 4, 2020
1
@Gwendolyn2018 Well this old fart thinks your pretty darn smart and would get crazy and actually listen!
@DavidLaDeau how appropriate::: I was thinking
very much the same
If you want to see condescending discriminatory ignorance, try being a male going after a dietetics degree ( that's a home ec degree for the uninitiated...i.e. the last bastion of total female dominance in the western world). I had to put up with an endless string of 19 year olds ( most of whom couldn't even cook, let alone have a clue about the science involved , who somehow thought a field with more science than pre med was an easy ride while chasing an Mrs) constantly attempting to explain things , incorrectly. In all fairness, the older women and professors were completely cool and a blast to work with.
.... and yes, you were right, hauling a piece of furniture on its feet is a good way to break them
wolf041
Level 7
Feb 4, 2020
0
@Gwendolyn2018 LOL! I have a client in her 80s who runs her own computer training organisation, and she teaches in it!
@Gwendolyn2018 The whole two tiered gender role thingy they have going around here can be maddening . I grew up in southern California . While I don't miss the smog and crowds, I dearly miss the open minded atmosphere.
@BBJong out in LA , even in the 60s and 70s, mixed marriages were so commonplace that basically nobody noticed. I never considered it dating outside my race... it was simply dating ( although I dated a wonderful black girl in the early 80s who was from the south. Turned out she had a rampantly prejudiced brother . Had to end that for her sanity). Around here folks are still hiding their relationships except in larger cities.
Mu ex J thought she was the world expert on packing shopping into bags. Every trip to the supermarket would end up with mad scramble of flaying arms and hands as heavy to light, then categorized items were sorted on the conveyor belt. Woe betides a simple male idiot like me to interfere with her ladyships expertise. One would think that we were traveling across the Andies rather than a half-mile drive.
Then one glorious day on holiday we stopped at a little village shop. After picking out the lovely local produce we went to pay. J started to pack the things away but the little old lady who ran the shop said: "No dear it is better if you put this in first". I tried so hard to suppress a smirk but inside I was doing a touchdown celebration
273kelvin
Level 8
Feb 4, 2020
2
The only reason to ship something with shelves standing upright is for one with gravity only holding the shelves in place....even then, lay the damn thing on the back side and put something in between the shelves like pillows or blankets....better to use a van to avoid wind and debris marring....those fucked up old boys should shut the fuck up ....yeah they will let a guy fuck up his own load but can't resist rescuing the dumb little lady....piss on them .....they will force all women to stay pregnant TrumpOLINI just said so live before Congress and gave a medal to Rrrruussshhah dingy Crazy greedy LIMPboss radio cult liar dittohead dying of lung cancer....all the prEying for the fat fascist draft dodger age 69 will do no good and treatment will be well deserved pain and puking
Larry68Feminist
Level 7
Feb 4, 2020
0
@Gwendolyn2018 know it all pricks know nothing
There are more idiots out there than you can shake a stick at, they come in all shapes and sizes and sexes for that matter. I do agree with you that old, entitled, white men seem to be the most vocal about their idiocy. There but for the grace of dog, go I. 
Surfpirate
Level 9
Feb 4, 2020
2
@Gwendolyn2018 At least they have the decency to backoff. Some of those old white dudes have spent their whole lives in positions of power where they were constantly on the spot to provide answers and advice for problems in their areas of expertise, it seems to become second nature.
I'm not that old but definitely oldish, I have owned several companies and been the person that everybody comes to for an answer, so I get it.
I have also been retired for a decade and have learned to STFU unless my opinion is asked for, well most of the time at least. lol I will chime in if I see something that is unsafe or dangerous but otherwise I am happy to let trial and error take its course.
@Gwendolyn2018 We are all products and for that matter victims, of our programming. I learned to stop being annoyed, at least for the most part, by idiots, malicious individuals and bigots for the most part but I must confess it took me a while. Best of luck, it is a very nutty world out there.
Wow.
You are WAY nicer about that kind of stuff than I am.
On more than one occasion, when confronted with a mansplainer, I've shut them
down with a very pointed "I know what I'm doing, thank you."
If they persist, I get a little more "direct".
That's when I usually hear the word "bitch" or "C U Next Tuesday".
I'm done putting up with that bullshit. If I'm going to be disrespected just because I'm female, they're going to get it right back, and then some.
I'm going to fight fire with fire whenever I feel the need.
I'm so done being a "nice lady" to assholes.
I'm just not going to do it anymore.
KKGator
Level 9
Feb 4, 2020
3
Yay You!
@Gwendolyn2018 I get it. I tried being "subtle", and it hardly ever worked.
I also still usually got called the names I mentioned above.
So, I changed my approach. It doesn't prevent the splainin' from happening, but it usually cuts way down on the time I have to spend listening to it.
I'm sure people probably think you're much more pleasant to deal with.
LOL
I applaud ; I've seen and support it.Thats reality- if they
cannot handle it OR change , they have the problem.
@Gwendolyn2018 if they insist - that IS a problem.
And you should not have to concede to them.
@Gwendolyn2018 I understand completely. For a really long time, I put up with that kind of stuff. I just don't anymore. I'm done.
I realized that the people who do that really have no consideration for my feelings, and to an even greater extent, no respect for me as a human being.
I'm done trying to be nice and "turn the other cheek".
I'm done sitting quietly until they're done, so they either go away, or I can leave.
It's OKAY for me to stop others from disrespecting me.
I do NOT have to stand there and take it.
I do NOT have to be "polite" while someone tries to make me eat shit.
I am DONE.
If that makes me a "bitch" or a "C U Next Tuesday" in someone else's estimation, I do not care. That's their perception.
It's not okay for anyone to disrespect me in any manner for whatever rationale they think they have.
Fairly recently, I had a guy on Facebook who mansplained how my vagina works. Other people came to my defense; the idiot kept doubling down. It was so absurd, I just started laughing. I only wish I could have laughed at him in person.
CarolinaGirl60
Level 8
Feb 4, 2020
1
@Gwendolyn2018 I cannot understand the mentality of such men. If a woman is confident enough in her relationship with me to tell me about her menopause, be it future current or past, I will happily listen.
@Gwendolyn2018 Right?! Yes, o wise man, tell me about YOUR hot flashes. 
.
You are too nice to have to put up with this kind of shit. I have been doing woodworking for over forty years now. I started in a shop where we stripped finishes, furniture repair, and now make custom interior components for homes we build. I learned a long time ago that everyone knows way more than I do. I would have asked the man. "Oh will you be responsible for any damage that happens to the furniture if we stand it up?" OK now for the serious part. You are suffering from "lack of man syndrome". My mother used to say that a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.
dalefvictor
Level 8
Feb 4, 2020
4
Some guys are like that. It is social and cultural conditioning.
I well remember long ago when I was still in my 20s my wife went to the parts counter at Sears (yeah, they used to have those) to get some spare parts for the vacuum cleaner or something and the clerk was giving her a similar hard time / dominance move. When I walked up and simply observed ... didn't have to say anything but it was clear we were together and I wanted this matter wound up ... suddenly he was very helpful and gave her exactly what she asked for without trying to impress her with how stupid she was. I didn't have to say a word, I just had to show up.
I told my wife after we left, such things make me ashamed to be a man. I never wanted my wife to be dependent on me but I sure did come in handy sometimes even though she was perfectly capable of, for example, buying some damn parts at a parts counter.
If this incident had happened now, some 35 years later, I would be more assertive about it, and might well escalate it to management. At the time I was just flabbergasted. And of course today, management would be more likely to listen if I complained. In fact they might even listen to my wife!
Progress, I guess.
mordant
Level 8
Feb 4, 2020
3
Assholes are everywhere
bobwjr
Level 10
Feb 4, 2020
1
@Gwendolyn2018 Thank you for that. A lady that I was "friendly" with last year wanted to tell me how to raise my kids, treat my kids, what to do for my kids, how to talk to my kids. etc. etc.
She had NEVER met my kids.
I did however, see her go off on her son and start slapping him
@Gwendolyn2018 I know met a few myself
@Gwendolyn2018 explains much many are trumpers and misogynist
@Gwendolyn2018 Tammy wynette
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