That's just silly.

@Athena And... While Bernie certainly has a lot of energy and charisma for some folks, he comes off as profoundly obnoxious to most others, very much like Hillary. His main proposals are unworkable and dead-on-arrival, just like Warren's (As AOC admitted). Bernie (or Bloomberg) would have to work impossibly hard to get past the anti-Semitism prevalent among Black voters, just as Buttigieg would have to overcome the homophobia Blacks are known for (Look up how the Mormons used this to stop gay marriage in California in 2008).

Putin may well have already rigged the election for Trump.

Democrats need a landslide to undo Trump's damage, or even to demonstrably win. Even then, the People will have to march on the White House to force his removal. Let's hope we have a few generals left that are loyal to the Constitution.

And if by some miracle, the Democrats do win, what then? They still have to deal with the 45% of their fellow citizens who have sedition in their hearts, and are OK with outright treason if it comes from a Republican.

@racocn8

You're a funny guy.

who you vote for absolutely DOES matter, but "only [fill in blank] can do it/fix it/save us/win/beat trump" is cult talk. it's trump talk: "only i can fix it." it's NEVER true. there is never only one person who can do it, and polls, for what they're worth, have shown all the democratic candidates beating trump. you like bernie? vote for bernie in your primary. but please do not think for a moment that ONLY bernie can beat trump. we can MAKE that true by not voting for anyone else if bernie doesn't win the nomination, but it doesn't HAVE to be true.

g

@genessa

I live in Canada so I won't be voting for anyone. Mine was not a Bernie or bust comment.
I'm rooting for Bernie because he has cross party appeal like no other. He has populist ideas that everyone likes, with the exception of the very wealthy.
Trump beat Hillary in 2016 because so many people hated her that they didn't bother voting. It's hard to vote for a candidate you don't believe in. Bernie has a strong and loyal following, all of whom will be so gutted, if he doesn't win the nomination, that it will reflect in the polls with poor democratic turnout. All the people who he is fighting for will lose hope in the system and stay home.

So yes! Only Bernie can bring those people out. It's how Trump surprised everyone and won. It was the people who had not been polled.. the ones who believed he was going to break up the establishment.. THEY elected Trump.

Sanders is that guy now..
Medicare for all, wiping out student and medical debt, raising the minimum wage, ending wars..

Who else?

No one.

@Athena warren, for one. but you know, hillary didn't lose the election because everyone hated her, and those who hated her did so partly due to russian propaganda and partly due to the propaganda of david bossie, starting before she was first lady. but she didn't lose with the people; she got almost three million more votes than trump did, and probably more, considering the russians did after all hack the voting machines. and i stand by my statement that there is never an "only that one." the world doesn't work that way.

g

@Athena The only truly weak point Sanders has is his age. Could he manage a second term??

@Petter

If he were to get a second term, that would be great but even if he doesn't, just his winning an election at all would be extremely positive. A democratic socialist winning a presidential election will mean that the neoliberal stranglehold on power is finally broken. The myth that non-corporatist candidates have no chance of winning will be smashed and the flood gates will be opened for other reformers to continue what Sanders begins.

@genessa

Warren is proving to be a human turd. Her smearing Bernie and backpedaling on medicare for all? Yes, I do believe Liz is a liar. Please don't even compare their politics any longer, as Warren has gone to the dark side.
Her stellar performance in 2016 won't be forgotten either. This is when she abandoned Bernie, after aligning herself with him, and was seduced by Hillary's people to support her instead, with the dangling carrot of a potential VP run.
The poles are reflecting her disingenuous, self serving ways. She saw Bernie gaining momentum, and she was willing to throw him under the bus to change that.

Major backfire. The only person who can beat Trump, is the candidate who has more populist ideas than he does.

@Athena the poles don't get to vote, nor the czechs either. and i think your fantasies are less amusing than they could be.

g

@Petter

Just 1 year of Sanders would change things for the better. He would choose a VP who aligns himself or herself with his ideas, like Yang or Tulsi and that person would take over, in that necessary event.

When asked, Bernie stated last year that he would choose a young VP.
I wish people would stop commenting on his age, like he's dead already.
Bernie is alive, driven, energetic and highly motivated to make a difference. There are much younger people who can't even get out of bed in the morning.

But, focusing on age is all people have on Sanders... I mean, when there's no scandal or real controversy then "isn't he too old?"

Only old people say that.

@genessa

Sadly, if any other person is made the democratic nominee, it will be an upsetting discovery to find that orange bag of shit sitting on his oval thrown, in that oval office, watching porn and eating kit kats.

@genessa @RoboGraham

Excellent point. Just winning would make a huge statement and change the thinking of the corrupt establishment. What's left of them, I mean, when Bernie is done..

@genessa What do the Czechs have to do with it.

@Athena
Liz has shown her true colors. She had us fooled for a while with her good work on consumer protection but now it is plain to see that she is a fauxgressive who was riding the wave of popularity derived from supporting Bernie's populist policies.

She back peddled on Med4All, she back stabbed Bernie with her obviously fake and desperate smear, she is capitalist to her bones and a former republican.

I don't see how people continue to support and trust her. She is still begging people to contribute their hard earned money to her lost cause. A girl with six dollars to her name gave Liz half and she not only took it, she bragged about it. That right there tells you all you need to know about how much she cares about the poor.

@Athena you appear to be convinced of this. i am convinced otherwise.

g

@RoboGraham czechs. poles. whatever. as for liz, seriously, i don't know what universe you're in but in mine, this simply isn't so.

g

@genessa

Why is that? What is it about Warren that allows you to get past her flaws and support her so enthusiastically? I'm genuinely curious.

@genessa Sorry I'm still confused. Czechs, Poles... I don't see the relevance of them in this discussion.

@RoboGraham i quote from athena above: "The poles are reflecting her disingenuous, self serving ways."

g

@Athena

It's an enormously good feeling to be supporting a candidate who is so competent and free of scandal that the best the opposition can do is say things like, "he's old and his hair is messy."

@genessa

Oh I get it. You decided to focus on a spelling mistake because you have nothing of substance to challenge her statement with.

@Athena is right. Warren began doping in the polls when she proved herself to be disingenuous by turning her back on the progressive policies that made her popular.

@RoboGraham oh i get it. you read that line and nothing else of my post in which i challenged her statement with substance. and athena isn't right, nor are you, and you do yourself no good in the credibility department when you pretend that i ONLY made a joke about spelling and said nothing else.

g

@genessa

I spelled "polls" and "polled" correctly 10 times before autocorrect went to "poles."

It doesn't matter. Based on this disagreement, you are also convinced you're right, so how is that different?

Either way, you are on the wrong side of humanity if you can overlook Liz's bullshit.

I see that clearly.

No spelling mistakes.

@Athena i made a joke. sue me.

g

@genessa

You said some things earlier in the conversation about Bernie not being the only one who can beat Trump, fair enough. I disagree but okay you added something.

But when Athena spelled out the problems with Warren as a candidates, all you had to say was the poles joke and " and i think your fantasies are less amusing than they could be." That's not substantive.

I'm still wondering what it is about Warren that makes her the preferred candidate. Sure she is better than Biden or Mayor Pete but I find it difficult to understand when people choose her over Sanders. And no one has given me any good reasons.

@RoboGraham no, it was NOT all i had to say. i had much, much more to my response. but as i said, you've lost any credibility with me you may have had, since you keep insisting that's all i said. so i have nothing more to say to you at all. nothing. bye.

g

@genessa

Subject change, g?

No need to sue anyone. I'd prefer to improve your moral compass.

You should look at the candidates to choose from, and try your best to use some semblance of humanity and critical thinking to decide which candidate actually cares about the American people. Also, Trump would destroy Warren with "Pocahontas" attacks - and he would be right! She's lost favour with people of colour, while Bernie has gained in popularity among them.

Buttigeig has flip flopped, or pivoted on policies, repeatedly, and is an establishment sycophant. Klobuchar is just plain confused.. she is a republican who argues for all the reasons why every populist idea "just won't work."

Bloomberg? No comment necessary.

Other than Bernie, what do these people stand for? All they do is whine about what they're against.

Great! I'm against them.. just speaking a language they might understand.

@genessa

You can't seem to answer @RoboGraham 's
question about Warren.

So you dismissed him.

Interesting.

Feel free to dismiss me too. I'm expecting it.

@genessa

I lost my credibility with you the first time I ever spoke to you because I had some legitimate criticism of Hillary Clinton. So to just say that I have no credibility over and over doesn't accomplish anything.

Still wondering if you are going to say anything about why Warren is the better candidate.

@Athena I AM old. I know Sanders is energetic. My only query, which is probably shared by many US voters, is "Could he handle a second term"?
Remember, the oldest US president at the time of leaving office was Reagan, aged 78. Trump, of course, is currently the oldest person ever elected president, at age 70.
Were Bernie Sanders to be elected, beating the record, Trump would really *HATE** that.
I like the thought!!

@Athena

It warms my heart to come across a Canadian who is better versed in American politics than most Americans are. You know your stuff and have a good head on your shoulders.

It's a shame you can't vote here but I doubt you'd be willing to give up your access to a rational healthcare system just to have the opportunity to vote for Sanders.

@Petter

I interact with "old" people all the time who are not old at all. Chronological age does matter in many cases, but I find people's own frustration with aging, or their identity politics is clouding their ability to look at Sanders' policies, which are great for America.
One term couls be significant for change, and as @RoboGraham said, just the fact that an anti-establishment, democratic socialist like Bernie, could be elected in the first place, would be a huge shift in the system.

Trump was caught on recording saying the toughest person for him to beat would be Bernie! You're right, it would piss him off, but he'd see it coming. Interesting, right?

@Athena Trump is afraid of Bernie.

Bernie is a real populist. Trump knows that his bullshit that got him elected last time won't work against Bernie. Keeping out the immigrants, bringing back the coal jobs, lowering the taxes... that stuff has nothing on social programs that will help people in their daily lives. Especially after 4 years of a presidency that hasn't helped people much but has got alarm bells ringing in many people's minds. Trump is right, socialism will be hard to beat.

It looks like I've been blocked by Gennesa. Did she block you as well?

@RoboGraham

I love Canada. We rarely come across religious fundamentalists, and when we do, no one takes kindly to their preaching.

I don't know what I would have done without our healthcare system. Both my parents had cancer and were treated cost free to all of us. There were even transportation services covered by the government.

I am truly saddened by what's happening politically in the US. I truly believe I would be just as heartbroken as American Bernie supporters are, if he is not the nominee and just as furious.

However, for whatever reason, I feel certain he'll be President.

@RoboGraham

Look at that, I believe she did! I hadn't noticed until you mentioned it and I looked just now.

Who cares?

@Athena

Well I'm glad to see your enthusiasm even though you don't have to directly face the consequences of how the election turns out. Thanks for your your solidarity.

That's wonderful that your healthcare system helped your parents. It's hard enough just fighting the disease but to have bills and impediments on top of it is ridiculous. I hope your parents were okay. I've had to deal with some major heath issues here in the states and it hasn't been easy to say the least.

Canada seems like an awesome place. I only went once to Ontario but I loved it.

I'm feeling that way to. I'm allowing myself to feel hopeful because it is looking hopeful.

@Athena

What a fragile person. I knew it would only be a matter of time. She kicked me out of her group because I criticized HRC. Every time I communicate with her I expect the black and here it is.

I don't think i said anything mean did I? I just called her out for talking about your spelling mistake rather than saying anything meaningful and I asked her to describe why she supports Warren over Sanders. Pretty standard stuff.

@Athena When I get old I'll let you know. I still act in amateur dramatics, still drive vast distances (in 2 weeks time I shall be driving from Mojacar, Spain to Rome, Italy - a distance of 1,250 miles each way - to watch a rugby match.) and still do building jobs fo fun. But then I'm only a year older than Sanders.

@Athena @RoboGraham Thanks to Spain's health-care system, I get free medical care and pay only 10% of the cost of drugs, and even that is not charged above a maximum ceiling. I was diagnosed with cancer 4 years ago. All it costs me is the price of getting to see the specialists, 20 miles away.

@RoboGraham

I didn't find you were mean. I was definitely meaner! But, people don't like being called out when they don't have answers.

My father was diagnosed at stage 4 lung cancer and died 8 months later.
My mom's cancer was cured, but she died a few months ago, after 5 months in hospitals for a chronic lung disease. Both had quit smoking for years before their illnesses set in, but it was too late.

I'm sorry to hear you've been battling your own health issues. What I wish for every person in America, and in the world, is that all can be cared for, cost free and worry free, when facing any health problem.

I wish you a full recovery and sending hope and support from Ontario.

@Athena

Thank you.

Sorry to hear about your parents. Glad they had good care at least.

I think that wish will come true eventually. Especially if we can win this thing in November. It is really comforting to see that people such as yourself are engaged enough and care enough to get involved and help the movement. Be careful though, next year the DNC might start saying that Bernie won because of nefarious Canadian meddling.

@Petter

I hope you get all the care you need so you can continue all your wonderful adventures!

Your amateur dramatics will help with this part...acting healthy is part of being healthy.

@RoboGraham

Oh, I'm already trying to break into the system to fix the 2020 election.

I'm admitting it, so I can happily be held responsible for Bernie's win!!

@Athena

You will someday be known as an honorary national hero.

Your face will be immortalized on coins and status across the nation.

It shouldn't be too difficult. After what happened in Iowa, it's clear that we have some glaring issues with the security of our electoral system.

@RoboGraham

Iowa! Jesus Christ!

As if I didn't dislike Mayor Pete B. enough as it was.

I believe there is much corruption within the establishment.. the problems go way beyond glitches. I honestly think Bernie winning the Presidency would be the happiest day of my life.

@Athena

Ya know it's bad when an atheist shouts Jesus Christ!

Sneaky Pete is a slimy little weasel. Claiming victory with no data released, coordinating with CNN to have him declared victor at the moment he was on stage, all that bull shit with the app, the cheated coin flips, the staggered result release which constantly showed him up slightly as they held off releasing the precincts where Bernie won, the intervention of the DNC, the whole we can't fix the errors to "ensure the integrity of the process" WTF ensure the integrity by counting correctly!

It would certainly be one of the happiest for me. We would finally have a real actual left party rather than two joined wings of the neliberal war mongering imperialism party.

@RoboGraham

I prefer to say Jesus fucking Christ, but I try to be a polite atheist. You know most of us are SO immoral.

You are absolutely right about all that. That's what I was referring to when I spoke of the corruption, although we both know it's not the first time and won't be the last. The public is seeing the transparency of these tactics.

Pete is an opportunistic, disingenuous, pansy. His face is so ugly to me because who he is as a person is plastered all over it.

Don't even get me started on CNN.

@Athena

When I see Pete's face, I get a slight ping of anxiety. My mind unconsciously understands that it is looking at a villain.

The good thing is that, now, people are much more aware of what is happening. Oddly enough, we have Trump to thank for that. His ranting against the fake news got the news so worked up and biased that people started to see it. The Mueller report was such a dud, it became crystal clear to all who were paying attention that it was just a distraction. They needed to blame someone and something for Clinton's colossal lose of what should have been an easy win so they went way out there.They couldn't reflect on their faults and realize why they lost. They couldn't go after Trump all that much because they are in lock step with all the same corruption he is into. So we got Russia, Russia Russia, Bernie Bros caused her to lose, and Jill Stein people did it. Never did they take any of the blame themselves. They learned nothing.

And then there was the impeachment. Nothing but political theater designed to create the perception that the dems are vigorously opposing this dangerous president while simultaneously, they capitulated to Trump on his space force, his gigantic military budget even bigger than the already way to big budget, they extended the patriot act for him, they gave him wall money after a meaningless shutdown fight that accomplished nothing, and they gave him his updated NAFTA. All while arguing that he has abused his powers so egregiously that he ought to be removed from office. it's truly stunning how corrupt they are and how dumb they think we must be to just sit back and not do anything about it.

... I never said that. It's fake news. I did not interfere with the stupid democrat primaries - they'd lose anyway cause I'm the greatest president ever...ever.
*Hey, Rudi. Can you fix this? Pay someone to dig the dirt on the editor, or something. Don't worry, I'll get you a pardon.**

... or just vote for the best shot!!

@Petter

Word

@RoboGraham 9mm will do. More concise than words.

@Petter

I'd go with 7.62×51mm

@RoboGraham Save on coffin costs?

@RoboGraham Hey guys, this will not allow us to view the chaos of this idiot after he leaves office. It will be interesting to see who gets the first bite mat him and what happens. Then there are the others and who will defend him? He will not pay and will not be able to pay, will he need a public defender?

@dalefvictor Why waste tax dollars on him?

I don't care who's president because if we still keep the same senate we've got now we're still doomed.

@Lorajay How about a serious voting machine then? I believe Vickers made a good one.

@Lorajay The best way to flip the Senate is to nominate the best candidate with the most popular policies. People come out to vote for president and vote for down ballot races while they are at it. High turn out is essential.

If we don't have a good nominee, the Senate, and probably the white house as well, will remain controlled by the GOP. This is why voting in the primary is extremely important.

Some candidates couldn't beat Trump even with the assistance of tens of billions of dollars.