Exactly ....you’ve expressed it well.

Knowing when to walk away I think is the key! I am firm in my beliefs and will present them in a forum, whether here or on Facebook. If challenged, I will present my thoughts and if required how I came to them. And I will read replies that present their position in a logical manner. Once the replies go off the rails, and the personal attacks and name calling start, I move on. Arguing with a brick wall is totally non productive and I don't really care if anyone shares my opinions anyway. I am quite content in my own skin.

Yes...I usually do too, except sometimes they hijack a thread you’re already on.

I have no problem with having differing views regarding epistemology or any matter, either with you or anyone else. I totally disagree though, with the manner in which the person in question disrespected my views, and please don’t start patronising me by telling me the same thing. I have no bias, no axe to grind, and use reason and logic, not emotion, to formulate my views.

@Marionville the simple fact you grouped it to men shows you have a bias dear. that wasn't meant as a slam. we all have our biases. it's just part of being human. just like me calling you "dear" above. it's just how I was raised. I mean nothing by it and call the guys "dude". we have to learn to drop our defenses and open up.

@JeffMesser oh no! She grouped it to men! Am I sensing a bit of emotionality here? You seem defensive deary

@Cutiebeauty ohhhh goody ... you can band together in feminine bliss now!! if someone is pointing that out that MUST mean they are bad, right?

@JeffMesser I didn't say you were bad, just emotional how's it feel?

@Cutiebeauty why can't you just discuss instead of everything being combative? this place is so full of hate and hostility it's like a cesspool and so many of you never seem to get past it.

@JeffMesser I'm just kidding around.. Take it easy

@Cutiebeauty when ONE person is "just kidding" it's fine. when it's done by hundreds for years then it's rather hard to "take it easy".

@JeffMesser I said it exactly as it is...I’ve never had exchange with an aggressive woman,, and I deal in facts, so that’s why I mentioned the two things that they had in common were that they were male and agnostic. I’m not going to rise to your bait of calling me dear, that was just too obvious a ploy, but I do suspect that I hit a nerve of truth, lest you wouldn’t feel the need to be so defensive,

@JeffMesser how about if you just block EVERYBODY and your "problem" will be instantly solved. Who appointed your our mother/arbiter/rater?

Totally agree...thanks for the advice.

Thank you for this post, I hadn’t seen it before. He and I think almost identically on this, although it’s interesting to hear the route he took to arrive at the same mindset. He arrived at it from completely the opposite direction from me, because I never ever had a religion or belief in god. I get really tired of agnostics telling me I can’t be both an agnostic and an atheist, that is a real bugbear. I also agree about not trying to proselytise or convert anyone to atheism. I mind my own business when it comes to religion and belief and don’t tell others they are misguided or wrong, or just plain stupid. All I ask in return is the same courtesy.

@Marionville Marje, thanks for your response. How are things in Northern Ireland? GROG

@GROG They are fine at the moment...but the Brexit issue has raised tensions in some of the more partisan areas.

@Matias Nice to see you pop up again, thought you’d decided to leave us as I’ve seen nothing from you in a long time.

@Matias I’m sorry to hear that Mathias, but not surprised because I remember you were routinely attacked when you posted, what I always found to be thought provoking and interesting questions or opinion pieces. I am beginning to think that the European mindset (I still consider myself to be one despite exit from EU), is more nuanced than those on the other side of the Atlantic who generally see things in black or white . Many here are incapable of separating the poster from the premise, and make a personal attack instead of debating the question. Anyway, I am glad you decided to return even in a lower profile role and I can understand why.

I must take a leaf out of your book!

@Marionville it is less stressful

Manipulating words to manipulate people to get what you want ("fun and amusement" ) is not what I would call critical thinking (or honest).

@FearlessFly I wouldn't call it critical thinking either.. What's your point?

@Cutiebeauty When you "engage in such discussions for fun and amusement", that sounds a lot like trolling. I'm not advocating 'grumpy', but I prefer straight-forward/direct/honest.

@FearlessFly OK.. Did you even read the op? My response should be read in the context of the op...

@Cutiebeauty I read the op -- and all the comments/responses. How does Marionvilles' trouble with inappropriateness/attacks excuse 'trolling' ("for fun and amusement" ) ?

@FearlessFly if I am having a nice discussion with someone about a semi serious topic and someone else enters the discussion with name calling and insults as their main argument, for me, it's fun time..

I’m afraid you seem to have missed my point entirely, although you did start well with your first sentence. I do not include you in my reference to “aggressive agnostics”, as you are polite and courteous in your language, and I hope you can acknowledge that I do not fall into the “strident” variety of atheists either. The point I was making is whether you see my point of view or not, resorting to personal abuse is unacceptable in an exchange of ideas or beliefs. I don’t need you to go over why you think I’m wrong in my beliefs, or to be more accurate disbeliefs, we can discuss that until the cows come home and probably never agree. The point of my post was to say there is room for all views here, but only if we remain respectful of each other’s views, even without any meeting of minds. I agree it probably cuts both ways, so let’s all be more tolerant of each other.

@Marionville Au contraire, the debate itself is invigorating in a sense.
That I am open to all viewpoints is liberating.
To wit: I believe as much in Yahweh as I do NO GOD, NO WAY.
See?
You're mistaken if you think Atheists outnumber Agnostics, btw, in the world at large. Even on this site the numbers are fairly even.
It's just much easier to articulate YOUR position because it is so much more absolutist, therefore simplistic.
The agnostic stance is nuanced and subtle. Everything is relative. We don't know anything.
Atheists, despite what you claim, KNOW there is no god. Don't try to deny it, or quasi-nuance it by saying you're 'sort of' agnostic because (of course) it can't actually be proven 100%
Yawn.
It's just that there are better ways than ad hominem attacks, more polite and civilized ways, to drive home the point Atheists and Theists are two sides of the same coin.
To me it's instructive and illuminating because, well, consider I think it IS possible to be an 'agnostic deist,' in that a deist believes in an uninvolved, impersonal 'god,' which seems much more in conformance with what we observe. THIS 'god' is not personally relevant, has nothing to do with our everyday lives, doesn't care what we do or not do, in my book isn't an 'entity' as much as an unknowable 'something.'
It'd clear up the 'determinalism' versus 'free will' conundrum, for one thing...for obviously nobody knows the future; it's not possible, period. Just like time travel is impossible.
It also clears up the question, 'If god created the universe, who created god?' The obvious answer is, the universe has always existed. Nobody created it.
Some agnostics would be very comfortable leaning that way. To me, the question is not, 'is there a god?'
Of course there is, if by that you mean, 'does the universe exist?'
The real questions are, WHAT is god? If everything is god, does that mean nothing is? Is consciousness god? Is everything conscious? Etc. The questions are endless and can only be discussed, never solved.
To me, belief and non-belief are beside the point.
What's the point?
Good question.

Sadly that’s so...but sometimes it just happens that someone joins in a perfectly polite and amicable exchange and turns it into a vitriolic attack. I don’t go looking for them believe me.

You’re nobody’s idiot my dear...and they’ll have me to deal with if they say so!

Very intelligent know your enemy

@Marionville me too she is intelligent and awesome

Sorry...I replied to you thinking you were the poster I referred to..I hope you didn’t read the message before I managed to delete it....it’s the blank cameo which confused me. I think the reason some, only some I stress, are aggressive here on this site is because they hold a minority view. We are all entitled to state our points view, but we must be able to do it in a courteous manner, and not become abusive and make personal attacks on those we disagree with. I’m not American so don’t understand your remark about discrimination with government support. Surely atheists would suffer the same discrimination ,probably more in fact.

Has to be done occasionally.

I think I may decide to do the same,

No..of course not you! I think I’ll go and stick to the Words and Music groups which are inhabited by much gentler souls!

@Marionville Unless they Dylan fans when he went electric

@Marionville no seriously I know who you mean an have most of them blocked, if I want to converse with stubborn new age mystics, wannabe hindus and navel gazers I know plenty of them in real life, who are far more pleasant about it

Good advice!

Btw, I've got this weird little mini-anthem by Rainbow in my head and can't seem to shake it, The Temple of the King. It's quasi-religious but seems to be oddly anti-religious allegory, or something. Very amusing, anyway.
I sometimes listen to obscure little songs on You Tube all the time. Great way to kill the time.

@Storm1752 My world is filled with music all the time...I’m the host of 3 different music groups here on Agnostics.

@Marionville and she is an A HA fan!!

@Bigwavedave I’m glad you’d noticed!