“The wise man regulates his conduct by the theories both of religion and science. But he regards these theories not as statements of ultimate fact but as art-forms.”
J.B.S. Haldane
Sounds right to me.
What do y’all think?
Nope. A scientific theory differs significantly from layman's theory. Nice sentiment but wrong. and science is not an art form it is about evidence and data and repeatable research. Religion is like fictional stories or narratives.
I get what you are saying, yet I have to consider Haldane’s opinions. No layman, he was certainly in a position to understand that scientific theories are not ultimate facts.
I’m still thinking about the “art-form” assertion.
Science is ever changing but I choose science and reject religion. It seems religion is "never changing" except for the continued interjections of apologists. then we have the idiots who think 2 plus 2 =5.
I think Haldane liked to say provocative things—he was no supporter of religion, and was a celebrated biological scientist.
I choose science, and reject religion. I demand facts and evidence to support my view. Religion is devoid of facts and evidence, and relies only on blind faith. The Bible is full of false prophecy, contradictions, and stories that are debunked by science. Religion is a scam (have you ever been to a church where the preacher does not beg for money?) based on mythology. So, religion does not rise to the level of a "theory." Therefore, I choose science, and reject religion.
With regard to religion you seem to be saying the same thing as Haldane, that the assertions of religion are not ultimate facts but an art form.
Are you saying that the assertions of science are ultimate facts?
@WilliamFleming Are scams art forms? If so, then religion is an art form.
No, science is never complete. We learn more all the time. But some things have been tested so thoroughly that they can be asserted as true. I have examined religion closely enough that I am pretty certain that the Bible is mostly myth. However, I keep an open mind. If there is important evidence I have not yet seen, I am open to examining it. And if it points toward my being mistaken, I can change my mind.
There is no point in having a theory unless one can test it. All religious conclusions are deliberately untestable.
On Art. It depends what you think art is. IMO Art is an expression transmitted with a human sense of vision,sound even words(poetry) etc. There is little point in putting in rules and regulations because it has to be free expression to get the feelings out. So I translate Haldane's statement as "you can write or surmise or produce what you want". That applies to religion, but with science there has to be this crunch testing time that separates the useful from the hopeless cases. Religion in effect is a hopeless case because it tries to reach conclusions before any test or way of checking validity.
How do religious "theories" apply?
Why do we need theories if we have Natural Law as the sole arbiter, ideally, of moral conduct?
Religious doctrines may be seen as distorted codifications of this innate sense of right and wrong, in my opinion. They are apparently describing right moral conduct for those who need it spelled out.
Art form? Maybe, in the sense music, or poetry, etc., can elicit or reinforce certain feelings,convictions and profound thoughts, so too can religious or scientific prose.
This is a very good OVERVIEW, Now we must develop many approaches which help the less able. My theory of starting from a dislike of science is to talk about the words (see my science teachers group on this site)
Haldane was quite a celebrated biological scientist, and somewhat of a rebel.
@Mcflewster . . . I'm not finding that group -- link ?
btw, see my (later) comment about this video here :
I suppose science may be considered an art form, but only in a superficial way. It is really everything around us that causes wonder, curiosity, love and learning! Religion only makes me think of closed minds with no curiosity. Which in turn causes so much grief in the world. And that's where the trouble usually comes from in human behavior.
there's truth and there's fact. they're not always the same.
I'm also wondering why you would even really need religion at all to regulate your conduct and not just science. I can very easily see how morality could be constructed through scientific means alone without religion at all.
I agree. I never understood ethics until I freed myself from religion. Religion teaches us to listen to a preacher and blindly accept what he says. Blind obedience is not ethics. Ethics requires thinking.
Well the first thing I think when I read that is to say A wise man regulates his conduct by both religion and science sounds somewhat vague in the regard that there are millions of different religions that someone could conduct their conduct by.
Yep.