To the Biden Supporters. Well... actually, there don't seem to be any true Biden supporters so let me rephrase that.
To the people who have settled for Biden.
Over the last couple of years, you all have made it crystal clear that the most important thing is to beat Trump and therefore, we all have to vote blue no matter who.
We Sanders supporters have made it abundantly clear that we don't intend to do that. We agree that Trump must be defeated but we aren't willing to settle for replacing him with someone almost as bad. Many of us made that clear to you last time around and that's why we get the blame for her loss.
Now we are running the same failed strategy with a candidate very similar to Hillary but even worse.
So here's the dynamic at play- there are two groups of voters in this party, those who will vote for whichever candidate is nominated because they aren't voting for a candidate, they are voting against Trump. The other group votes based on policy and values. If a candidate is nominated who does not satisfy their standards, they will not give that person their vote.
So if the intention is to get the most votes, the party's best move would have been to nominate a candidate who will be appealing to the second group because the first group will vote for whoever. And it is that first group who has declared that the most important thing is to beat Trump so one would think that they would understand that the best way to do that would be to get behind a candidate which the entire party can be satisfied with. It didn't have to be Sanders necessarily. It could have been Warren, maybe even Pete but Biden is the hardest pill to swallow of them all and that's the one you all chose. I fear that this choice has doomed the chances for victory for us this year because so many will be unwilling to support this man. He will suppress the vote, Trump will run circles around him on the debate stage, and in the end, we will once again be the scapegoats.
We spent the last few years warning you but you chose the worst candidate anyway. And his recent attempt to appeal to the youth is practically a spit in the face. You all have already begun to play the blame game which tells me that, deep down, you understand just as well as I do that this guy hasn't got a chance.
It is an appalling tragedy that the party chose to lose again with a centrist rather than win with a progressive and it shows where their priorities really lie.
2
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7 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.You and I both know there are many people who usually vote Dem in presidential elections that would rather lose with a centrist than win with a progressive, esp. members of the DNC, but getting them to admit it is another thing....
TomMcGiverin
Level 8
Apr 13, 2020
1
For sure, it's great for their fund raising and it assures that nothing changes. The status quo is great if it's working for you. They don't want to rock the boat just because millions of people don't have healthcare and half a million are homeless, and the climate crisis is fast approaching.... none of that matters to them.
I agree Robo, but I think you give too much credit to that first group you refer to, the ones who will supposedly vote Dem no matter who the nominee is. Most of them won't admit it, but I think the majority of them were never going to support or vote for Bernie if he had gotten the nomination last time around or this time. However, since Bernie failed to get the nomination either time, they were never put to the test about whether they would have fallen in line and supported or voted for him. I think most of them are secretly relieved that they weren't put in that position, like we have been each of these times. I also think that this time they were getting very nervous a month or two ago when it looked like Bernie was going to run away with the nomination. But the DNC and the virus took care of that for them. I think most of the anti-Bernie Dems are hypocrites and they will never convince me that most of them were willing to back up all their blue-no-matter-who talk if the shoe were on the other foot and they were being asked to support Bernie as the nominee...
TomMcGiverin
Level 8
Apr 13, 2020
1
That's true. I'm sure many are hypocrites. But I think most would have voted for Sanders. They don't vote based on policy, that is abundantly clear. They hate Trump and Bernie is decent and authentic, people like that. He could have won over most of them. For them, its the fact that this is the person the party has nominated and the one who has a chance at beating Trump, that's all they care about.
As I've been arguing with these people, I notice that none of them try to counter my assertions. They don't try to stand up for Biden and talk about how he actually is a good leader, and didn't do all that horrible stuff. They just accept that he is a shit sandwich but they believe that he is the shit sandwich that they believe can beat Trump somehow, so it's full steam ahead on the Biden train and if you don't jump onboard you're a traitor. It's crazy how they think.
@RoboGraham I've had to choose between a shit sandwich Dem or a Repub for prez most of my adult life and I will not accept those limited choices anymore. If that's being a traitor, so be it. Maybe it's justified on my part if the leaders of the Dems continue to betray me and the rest of the 99%. True loyalty is a two-way street and what the DNC wants for loyalty is more like Stockholm Syndrome...
This will be the first time I've ever not voted democrat and I've always voted. Have you ever voted 3rd party before?
@RoboGraham Hell yes!
When did you give up on the democrats?
@RoboGraham After Clinton's first term.
Drop the "royal we"
MarkiusMahamius
Level 7
Apr 13, 2020
1
I would if I were referring to myself just, but I'm not, I'm referring to us.
@RoboGraham youre posting a whiney rant thats all about your butthurt.
Some see it that way. Others don't, and those others are the "we" I'm talking about.
Get behind the candidate? After all this stupidity?? The damage is done. It now cannot be undone.
The extreme polarization by Sanders in the Democratic Party in the last 6 years cannot be undone. It is widely written about since the last 2016 election how Sanders supporters sat 2016 out. It is established. Sanders also drove moderates and independents away with his constant ranting just with one message of anger - "those millionaires and billionaires" forgetting that the same country created the largest wealth and prosperity for the most people and produced most billionaires and millionaires in the world. His call for a revolution was silly. The people of the country are not angry. They just want to reform the system and make it better. This does not produce a revolution.
The attempt to glorify Sanders will not work. People know how Trump came to power. It is as much Sanders' fault as it is Hillary's. History will not forgive Sanders.
I knew from day 1 and have told you... "Bernie will not be president."
It does not take more than average intelligence to tell that Bernie's stupid agenda, his unsuitable demographics, unsuitable personality, lack of oratory, ineffective speaking with hunchback posture, unruly, uncombed hair and hands in the air non-charisma and the 45-50 years of unproductive career marred with Communist past just makes a candidate doomed from the start.
St-Sinner
Level 9
Apr 13, 2020
0
You called it alright.
You were more aware of how corrupt and despicable the part is than I was. Great job
How was Bernie being unable to win delegates a corrupt job?
@VeronikaAnnJ
It is not correct that I hate Bernie. I tell naked facts. Bernie was a lousy candidate. It is a fact that hurts supporters, but it is a fact.
I was responding to @RoboGraham's implied assertion that Biden will get the nomination and not Bernie because the system is corrupt. It is a common and over used assertion of Bernie supporters that if Bernie is doing well, he is great, he is glorious, he would win, he would make a great president. When he does not win, it never his failure, it is never Bernie. It is always the corrupt system that made someone else win.
I knew from Day 1 that Bernie would fail and have mentioned it all the time. Bernie does not even have 10% of what it takes to become US President - no personality, no good plan, no demographics, no nationwide support, not being centrist, no appeal. All he had was a small band of frustrated supporters from Occupy Wall Streeters on the East Coast and money. He mistook that as being a very popular leader and tried to jump too high. Very predictably he crashed. Anger is not a recipe to get elected president in the U.S.
It is not just Bernie, no candidate with extreme ideas, unsuitable demographics, unsuitable personality would become president at least now or in the next 25 years.
I'll put the blame on Bernie also. He was too nice. He didn't call out Biden on his poor record enough. He didn't mention his corruption and lies at all. He didn't point out the sexual assault allegations. He continued referring to him as a good friend and a decent man. When he said that Joe can beat Trump he handed the win to him right there.
I think it was Bernie's intention to lose the whole time. He pretty much started campaigning for Biden before he even dropped out by telling the nation that Joe will win. He endorsed Biden faster than even Obama did. I think his intention with this run was to continue pushing his policies into the mainstream and then work to get the nominee elected just as he did last time. His function was to capture the energy and outrage of the left and funnel it into the democratic party.
@RoboGraham
All that money from hard working people, asking for that money again and again, giving false hopes to people for 6 years, promising dreams to honestly believing people was just a game?
In that case, Bernie is dishonest, a lousy human being and a conman.
I wouldn't go that far. His campaigns have certainly done some good in broadcasting his ideas and policies into the mainstream. I think the reason he is so cautious is because he doesn't want to risk his leadership positions within the Senate. Bernie has accepted his fate as a champion of progressivism who uses his influence in government and his primary challenges as a way of moving the country forward.
I still wish he had grown some cajones though.
...understand that the best way to do that would be to get behind a candidate which the entire party can be satisfied with.
Good god you're an idiot. The Democratic party is a conglomeration of factions, not some unified whole. Thinking there's a canidate all of the dems will magically get behind is a fucking fallicy....except for this primary cycle where suddenly everyone not voting for Bernie decided to vote for Biden - thats gotta sting. Also, Bernie was rejected by the democrats who actually vote - not the imaginary voters in your head. And seriously, if Bernie can't even win over the voters in the not as conservative party what the fuck makes you think he'd even halfway appeal to voters in the more conservative party and prevail in the general - besides the fantasy voting that occurs in your head, that is?
The intention isn't to get the most votes - it's to win the electoral college. That's a much different animal and something that you can't seem to wrap your little brain around. Ive seen scenarios (however unlikely) of Trump losing the pop vote by nearly 5M and still getting the electoriall win. It's been explained over and over, but you don't fucking get it - your self indulgent little screed here proves that by ignoring the fact that Hillary fucking won the fucking popular vote to no avail.
So really, and suck it up for this, I'd rather bet on flipping votes from Trump to Biden (something polls have been showing will happen for a year now) than count on the youth vote (notoriously fickle on voting) to overcome the votes flipping from Bernie to Trump (something the polls have been showing happening for a year now). So by all means, don't vote.
1of5
Level 8
Apr 13, 2020
5
Aww snap, 1/5 is triggered again.
What makes you think anyone can win over voters in the other party? Trump is at 92% favorability with republicans. We win by having high turn out, not going after conservatives who will never flip no matter who we run. We get high turnout with progressive policy and youth energy as Obama did. Biden doesn't have that and never will.
Of course there is no candidate who can satisfy everyone. But when there is a situation in which one side says they will vote for the party nominee no matter what and the other side says we won't accept another shitty corporate centrists, you'd think it would be smart not to nominate the shittiest corporate democrat of the bunch.
Biden was selected in conditions extremely favorable to Biden. A media that was so abundantly on his side he didn't really have to campaign, his people hid him away and let the talking heads do the work for him and they hardly ever covered any of the negative stories related to him. An establishment which was so opposed to his main rival that they put every obstacle available in front of the opponent and pulled all the necessary strings to clinch victory for Biden. State democratic parties which had no scruples with closing polling places in poor and urban areas which tended to vote for Bernie, counting incorrectly and then saying corrections can't be made in order to protect the integrity of the caucus, and setting things up so that all the moderates drop out at the critical moment and the one other progressive remains in to to split the vote.Not to mention that the primary itself is favorable to Joe because most states have closed races so independents can't vote and Bernie does very well with independents, he's been one for most of his career. they are the largest voting block so it's kind of important to get them. And of course there's the youth vote. Yes they are fickle indeed. It's difficult to get them out for the general and very difficult to get them to give a shit about a primary. It's even more difficult when the establishment goes around shutting down polling places that happen to be located near college campuses.
How do you think you can win the electoral college without winning the most votes? Last time the democrats won the most votes and still didn't win the college. You need to not just win the most votes but over-win, by millions. Your diatribe makes no sense.
Good luck courting those conservatives. How are you planning to convince them to vote Biden? Biden is the more principled rapist? Biden is a right winger so it's pretty much like you are voting republican anyway? Biden is basically the same as Trump but the things he says are a little less crazy and he is a bit more presentable? Let me know how it goes.
Excuse me, conservatives then. Regardless of who on the right you go after, to do so, you have to cater to their preferences and those conservative preferences are not what the democratic party is supposed to stand for and not what's good for the country.
This is what has been happening for decades. The democrats nominate a centrists who puts his middle finger up to the progressive base in favor of courting conservatives and it shifts the party's ideology a bit right each cycle. Only Obama had the sense to run a progressive hope and change campaign and reveal his centrism later. Over time, the democratic party is becoming a conservative party and that is why so many on the left are disillusioned and disgruntled. It should come as no surprise that so many of us are ready and willing to jump ship.
1of5:
@RoboGraham your one of those rare individuals in that each word you write further clarifies how little you know - and you write a lot of words.
Biden was selected because Bernies been running for president for 6 years and appears to be losing youths support, in turnout or in actual % of the vote carried in the Democratic party :
In Alabama, only 10% of the voters were in the 17-29 range compared to 14% in 2016. Sanders won 46% of those voters Tuesday compared to 40% in 2016.
In North Carolina, 14% of Tuesday’s electorate were young voters, compared to 16% four years ago. Of those, 57% went for Sanders in 2020 compared to 69% in 2016.
In South Carolina which held its primary Saturday, young voters made up 11% of the electorate compared to 15% in 2016. Sanders won 43% of those voters compared to 54% four years ago.
See there's a lot of moderates in the Democratic party and once all the other moderates dropped out they voted for the only moderate left. Sorry they exist and fucked up your little imaginary world.
This is fucking idiocy: How do you think you can win the electoral college without winning the most votes? Well, let's see, Trump did it in 2016, Bush in 2000, John Adams in 1824, Ruthaford Hays in 1876, and Benjamin Harrison in 1888. Every time it happens it shows another way to do it. 4 of those 5 were flukes, with the 2016 election being the exception. The republicans knew Trump couldn't win the popular vote and designed their '16 strategy around that, successfully if you recall. They are going to do the same thing this time. Last time the democrats won the most votes and still didn't win the college. Do you even pay attention to what you're saying? You just contradicted yourself. You need to not just win the most votes but over-win, by millions. No, you dont, as already proven by, fuck, whataya call it? Oh yeah, history. Your diatribe makes no sense. i honestly worry about anyone who thinks yours does.
I'm not courting conservatives you idiot, I'm trying to get it through that thick thing that passes as your skull that moderates exist in the Republican party too and already will vote for Biden over Trump but will not vote for Bernie over Trump. You aren't going to change the way either hardcore base will vote you have to, have to, have to flip votes that are flippable.
Oh, and triggered? Nice use yet again of the rights terminology. But whatever. As usual conversing with you is a dead end. Have a nice day, shutting down notifications for this thread. Enjoy the last useless words here.
@1of5
Fucking idiocy. The electoral college benefits the other side. Yes candidates have won without winning the popular vote and it has been their side, not ours.
Again, we have to over-win because it is systemically imbalanced, all the small rural red states have outsized representation. Democrats live in cities moron. Unless your strategy is to go after these small rural states? Is that what you want? To turn the party into a totally conservative party in order to win the EC without getting the popular vote because that's what it would take. You are advocating for a retarded strategy one would expect to have been thought up by drunk children. The republicans have this tactic on lock down, you are not going to win Arkansas and and Wyoming no matter which shitty conservative democrat you run.
So you want to go after moderate republicans then? As I told you before, Trump has the republican party devoted to him. He has a 92% favoribility rating with them. It is a fools errand. And to go down that road, you have to adopt policies which appeal to them. Which means you are taking the party further right. There already is a right wing party and it's horrible, why turn our party right wing as well? You moderates claim to have the intention of creating slow incremental movement toward progress and yet you are willing to step right and pander to the people who are destroying this world. This is why progressives are viewing democrats as ideologically opposed to them. You are willing to turn your back on the people attempting to improve this country in order to court republicans, very stupid.
Triggered is a term used on all sides. It seems to happen to you a lot. Perhaps some counseling would be good for you. This is a very stressful time with the election and pandemic and the all crazy stuff going on in the world right now. Feel better, and thanks for letting me have the last word on this one. It's quite a relief to know that I won't be encountering another of your angry rants. For a while at least.
I generally respected you. Before this post..
Cutiebeauty
Level 9
Apr 13, 2020
2
You don't respect people who disagree with you, got it.
@RoboGraham has nothing to do with agree or disagree... Your post suggests that the vote be split and that itself will insure trump is reelected... It doesn't make sense... I believe in choosing the lessor of two evils... At least for the time being... You stand on principle and policy and that will result in another four years of crappy trump policy and an unprincipled president...
The lesser evil is still evil.
Even if Joe Biden were to somehow win, we will still have crappy policy from an unprincipled president.
I'm sorry but choosing the rapist with the slightly less right wing policies is not something I can do.
@RoboGraham no need to be sorry... I just hope not many people will follow your lead...
@VeronikaAnnJ
"So I'm writing in a third party. ".
You might as well stay home and not vote if you're doing a write in vote for a third party... Or write in vote for me.. same difference... 
@VeronikaAnnJ
I don't recall having stuck up for Trump. I'm very opposed to him. I may have given him credit for something if credit was due. Biden is awful too but he is the lesser evil so I'd rather he win. I didn't mean to be confusing, if you want clarity on anything I'd be happy to elaborate.
I feel the same as you, I can't vote for either of them so I'll be voting third party.
@VeronikaAnnJ, @Cutiebeauty
Contrary to popular belief, voting third party is not a waste and much better than not voting. After the election, the numbers are analyzed by all sides. If the dems see that the greens got a lot of votes and it caused them to lose, they will have an incentive to shift policy to get those people back into the fold and it's the same for the republicans if the libertarians get a lot.
Also, if a third party were to get large enough numbers, the media networks would have to include them in debates and then Americans will actually hear the perspective of politicians outside of the two major parties and that could really open some people's minds.
@VeronikaAnnJ
Right on.
With this decision, you lose the respect of @cutiebeauty.
@RoboGraham OK. That's crazy.
You. Don't. Decide. Who. Loses. My. Respect..
@VeronikaAnnJ
I'll probably vote green.
, @Cutiebeauty
I assumed you would lose respect for everyone critical of Biden and planning to vote 3rdb party.
Just me then? That's a good thing
@VeronikaAnnJ
@Cutiebeauty would definitely make a better president than Biden or Trump. Don't think she's old enough though.
@RoboGraham maybe the word respect was the wrong choice of word on my part.. After rereading much, a more appropriate word would be disappointed... And I not really a hard and fast supporter of Biden.. I actually prefer Bernie.. However, he's not available so Biden it is..
As for your statement about "popular belief ", that's a bunch of gobblygook... That's hindsight wishful thinking crap.. No offence
@VeronikaAnnJ thanks for your support and vote! 
but I'd ask you and all my supporters, which number in the trillions, to please vote Biden!
The DNC chose Biden, not whatever individuals you think youre talking to.
Burner
Level 6
Apr 13, 2020
1
That's very true, however, there are now many people who are demanding loyalty to Biden and attempting to shame anyone who decides that it's unacceptable to vote for a creepy right wing sex offender. Those are the people I'm talking to.
@RoboGraham if you want to talk about current issues, then let Bernie go.
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