It is amazing how touchy some folks are around here (SOME, not by any means ALL). if you correct someone's misapprehension about a particular religion, this correction is often taken, at best, as a defense of that religion, or of religion in general, or as a sign that you subscribe to that religion yourself, or that you are a troll intent upon converting anyone who will comply to that religion or any other.
for example, if someone claims that muslims eat live rabbits dipped in chocolate sauce and you correct them, no, sorry, they don't actually do that, the claimant will say s/he knows a muslim who does that, muslims are dreadful people, and demand to know why you are defending islam. if someone claims that jews are out to convert everyone (and to kill everyone who won't convert) and you say actually jews discourage conversion officially, three times, and are strict about giving permission after those three official discouragements (youj have to have a good reason, and "i want to marry a jew" is not usually considered a good reason), and you have to study for about a year to do it, you will be told emphatically that you are delusional, even if you actually know what you're talking about and the claimant hasn't got a clue. it has nothing to do with defending religion. it is a matter of defending FACTS. (saying that shit isn't made out of foam rubber does NOT mean you actually eat the stuff.)
the latter example (about jews and killing people who won't convert, not about shit and foam rubber) is approximately what occurred today, in fact. the claimant and a defender thereof both blocked me (oh, i am boo-hooing about THAT rofl) after the latter individual made weird accusations (everything from my being emotional to my being a religionist) when i corrected the former's claim about jews killing those who won't convert. the defender cited chapter and verse to prove the claimant was right. a couple of problems with that:
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chapter and verse without BOOK (he just said "thorah," which he later clarified as "old testament," apparently unaware that people who don't acknowledge the NEW testament as a holy text don't HAVE an old one, and equally unaware that "thorah" isn't a word, while "torah" is, and while i might have just dismissed this as a simple typo -- i make 'em pretty easily myself -- the general ignorance of the whole post was such that i felt her actually thought he was quoting something called "thorah" ) so the chapter and verse were impossible to look up (and google didn't recognize any portion of the quotation either). so he had no clue that there are BOOKS in the bible, and you have to say which one you mean before the chapter, much less the verse, will be meaningful. yet he felt confident quoting (or misquoting -- i may never know).
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judaism doesn't depend on a literal reading of torah. (slavery isn't part of modern judaism and jews don't stone people to death -- some muslims still do, but that's politics, not religion). individual jews (and some extreme group, perhaps) might favor a literal reading, just as individual christians might, and others don't, but judaism itself does NOT, and just as the 613 commandments include an injunction against murder and yet an individual jew might murder, and the paltry 10 might say not to do that an a random christian might murder anyway, the respective religions say NOT to, and no number of biblical battle scenes of godly diatribes will change that.
note that the fact that i am talking about something i encountered doesn't mean i am excited, upset, emotional or distraught. it means i am sharing an experience with y'all that is pertinent to the subject of this site.
further note that i am culturally jewish (raised secularly but with a strong cultural identity) and an adamant atheist (since age 15), and like most good atheists, i do happen to know a little something about my background. isn't the bible (whichever one you choose) the most effective blueprint for atheism, at least for the discerning reader?
g
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26 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Well stated and entirely correct in every detail. It is infinitely better that ignoramuses block us from even reading their kind of uniformed nonsense than we should be eternally having to correct their misconceptions to no avail.
Marionville
Level 10
Apr 22, 2020
3
yep, i was actually going to block the defender, although not the original poster (i don't block people simply for being misinformed) but they both blocked me, and i have learned from a comment here that the post itself was deleted too. sensitive, eh? 
)
my only regret is that i never learned which book of the bible they thought they were quoting. it is (and i paste): "The Torah: 13:1-11:" um... torah has books and books have chapters. but as i say, i will likely never know.
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I know the concerns here are not just about calling Christianity on its idiocy, but showing the BS in all the superstitions. But living in Amerikkka I mostly deal with problems because of the Christian mythology. And when there is any complaints about being picked on . . . this is a wonderful clear and inarguable graphic. Please take it and use it often, it tends to be a kick below the belt for a lot of these folks.
Observer-Effect
Level 7
Apr 22, 2020
5
lol i love it.
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A lot of them don't even read carefully. For example you can write. "Some people say. The earth is flat." You will then get a three paragraph, ( assuming they know how to use paragraphs ) chapter and verse, on why the earth is spherical. Which just leaves you wondering. Did they read the phrase, 'Some people say.'
I suspect that the points hounds, who only read quickly and then put down a shallow comment for points are the worse, but some are just flaky. You just have to shrug and get on with your day.
Fernapple
Level 9
Apr 22, 2020
1
lol my shoulders hurt but i got on with my day. then i thought maybe y'all could find some interest in this, and decided to post. but i got my hair halfway detangled along the way (part of why my shoulders hurt -- it's not ALL from shrugging!) and am about to start dinner in the slow cooker, as soon as i repair the lid handle. multitasking, they call it!
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You obviously had an encounter with two very emotional people 
Cutiebeauty
Level 9
Apr 22, 2020
2
seems so!
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@genessa as long as you had fun... I was laughing too when I read the exchange
@Cutiebeauty well at first it was frustrating because i was obviously not being understood, but then it became apparent that the defender how no INTENTION of understanding, as understanding would interfere with his preconceptions. then it was fun, especially sharing it here lol.
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I noticed you failed to cap your i's WAY too often, are you mentally okay? I'M JOKING!!
Your post was great and you took the time to give examples and so glad to hear ignorant folks blocked you, 'cause lord knows i am not coping well with ignorance as it devolves into stupid.
That said, attempting to correct misapprehension requires tact ( I am not tactful and have no clue if you are and it matters not as long as ones comments do not attack the other person, that's just bad form) and even then it can go awry. I think the clue to how bad it will go is by the level of batshit crazy ideas you are attempting to correct or educate.
The comments were fun and over all I give this post a high rating for entertainment and education - again I am being tongue in cheek. I know jack shit about most religions but my bullshit-o-meter works pretty well.
silverotter11
Level 9
Apr 22, 2020
2
hey it is important to have a bullshitometer! so many people forgot to get one when they were on sale.
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Thank you for the part of attacking others. I just received one and I will always not comment and will, from that point on ignore such members.
No seriously, this degree of logorrhea is a huge flag for the manic phase. I did suggest perhaps a little tweak of the meds might help.
Unfortunately if you disagee with some people they take it as a personal attack on their ego.
Cyklone
Level 7
Apr 22, 2020
2
truth, that!
sometimes it IS an attack. but it's unlikely to be one from me unless the original post is hostile in and of itself. this did have a hostile air to it, but i ignored that and in fact ignored most of it and responded just to the ONE point within it (and quoted it to make sure the poster knew to what i was responding). that appeared to be enough to be considered an attack.
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I noticed it too and so I formed a group called No Holds Barred for this very reason. I will attempt to gather like-minded individuals (in the sense of being thick skinned, not all libs or all Cons) to our own private corner where we are free to be our individual selves, for better or worse.
We will moderate ourselves and the only rules are to Stay on Topic, No Gratuitous Personal Attacks (tensions will run high and as long as the conversation is evolving, we will let it go) And No Spam. I too am tired of the passive aggressive sage like wisdom someone who doesn't even own a dictionary will try to impress upon me.
So come one come all, as long as you spit, curse, talk shit and get whatever you need to off your chest for the purpose of finding Solace, New Information, or Debate. Like the group says, No Holds Barred!
Macanudo
Level 5
Apr 22, 2020
1
Some people erect straw men to battle their own personal demons. Caring little for what you are actually saying they respond simply with their random feelings about the issue in question.
Correct them and they will for the most part flee. Sometimes they take the high road and continue the conversation appropriately though, which is really nice. Some though, you gotta just ignore because they just keep rambling through the talking points of their own inner diatribe.
JacobMeyers
Level 6
Apr 22, 2020
1
Yes that doea seem ti be the case.
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@genessa Exactly, and in my case just yesterday arfternoon when my Jewish friend, Ytzaak (Ithink I've spelled it right this time btw) was walking past my house and I again invited him for a chat session, the Evangeloon pest next door yelled out, " You can't do that he is NOT part of your family you're breaking the rules of Social Distancing."
Ytzakk started to turn and leave until I turned to him and said, by the rites and lores of both my Aboriginal and Cherokee heritage I hereby make you, Ytzaak, my Great Uncle.
I think I saw quite a few tears of joy come into Ytzakks eyes at that moment.
We sat, as per the rules about 2 metres apart, enjoying the warth of both the sun and our friendship, chatted away about various things, including that he, Ytzaak, considers himself to 'cultural Jew'and not a full on Jew, as were his words, he learned the taste of what I call my Aussie special, a glass of Icy cold Iced Coffee milk with a very generous scoop of vanilla Ice Cream in it ( he coyly asked for a second helping btw, which he got) and about 2 hours later he wandered of home saying that he was making a detour to the Supermarket on the way to buy some Iced Coffee Essence and some Vanilla Ice Cream so he can introduce his wife, Mariam, to this great drink.
I have also been invited to dinner at his house next Friday evening BUT on the proviso that I bring along both the recipe for my "wonderful" Cheeseslaw salad and a container of it so Mariam can taste the wonders of this Broken Hill Aussie salad.
Maybe I'll pick up a few recipes from the Jewish culture that I can add to my repertoire and cook from time to time as well.
@Triphid I just lost my cousin anna to covid. I wish we could have had an experience like yours, say, last year, eh? But we coulDn't even talk on the phone. She wouldn't even talk to her daughter. But somehow it does give me comfort that your family could share some affection in a safe manner.
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I have friends and coworkers who are Jewish, Muslims, Christians, Hindus and Trump supporters and they are good people. I just don't agree with them. Not everyone is a fanatic and an extremist. I defend everyone's right to have their own beliefs and opinions. I may think that that those beliefs and opinions are stupid, but I am entitled to my own belief and opinion.
noworry28
Level 8
Apr 22, 2020
1
well, exactly! i see so many posts here from people claiming that anyone who subscribes to a religion is totally delusional (as opposed to being normal people who happen to believe in one silly thing) and dangerous (as you say, not everyone is a fanatic or even thinks about religion 24/7) and if you say otherwise, even timidly, you get stomped. my take on religion is that if it's not being legislated, adjudicated, executed or bullied onto me or others who don't want it, it's none of my business.
g
You are entitled to your own opinion and I work with a Catholic who looks down on me because he says "you should not make fun of other people's religion." I'm sorry. I make fun of all religion!
Before the pandemic took over, many, because of such divisive politics, had already developed hairtrigger, overreactive sensitivties. Now - forget it ! Lost impulse control, and unrelenting anxiety and anger, have multiplied all that a million times over !
evergreen
Level 8
Apr 22, 2020
1
i find it amazing how folks are going stir crazy. i am trying to understand and be sympathetic. i have mobility issues and am not young; i don't have a job, nor could i work a job. i used to go to adult daycare, mostly because my alzheimer's-stricken guy wouldn't go without me (but i got to be the vj, and three days a week i didn't have to figure out what to make for lunch!) but really, except for a very occasional trip to the buffet, or when i could get a ride to the grocery store, i didn't get out much. i used to travel a lot. now i am such a homebody. so i have to make myself remember that folks are antsy being at home (and legitimately worried about their jobs). i've seen memes about the horrors of having to cook dinner every night. whaaaa.... i always do that, always did do that, since being with my (helpless in the kitchen) guy anyway! who can afford to go out to eat all the time, or even order in? okay i am wandering off again and i meant to focus, focus, people are antsy, this isn't what they're used to, they're baking, they're knitting, their pets are astonished and confused, their children are wailing about no playdates, i do get it. i mean emotionally i don't but mentally i do. okay. i'll try to be understanding.
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There are some here who have a hierarchy of religions with some as being totally insane crazy. I, too, find correcting their knowledge annoying. As with Christians who rant about Sharia law, I say, I agree that it is evil, just as all Abrahanic law is evil and alk groups have the same basic beliefs. Also, as I rend to point out, which ever religious group controls a country, it tends to demonize and bring down all others not within its fold. The US was founded by a bunch of, at best, marginally religious elite who wanted their leadership to not be constrained by religion - now that truth is being rewritten by the evangelicals. Ah well, I am rambling.
Beowulfsfriend
Level 9
Apr 22, 2020
1
Funny, I'm not at all anti-religious but there are a few sects which I confess to looking down on. Mormons always struck me as having a religion which merged the Bible with DC comix, not that they are evil or even bad people. Jehovah's Witnessees sure do a number on each other; they're creepy. Which is the one that makes Tom Cruise jump on couches while being interviewed while leering at everyone like he has a very important secret? Scientology shouldn't be classified as a religion, just a Ponzi scheme with good lawyers. Then there is that Westboro Baptist group. shudders
"muslims eat live rabbits dipped in chocolate sauce "
That's ridiculous
Everyone knows it is Guinea Pigs in caramel sauce!
LenHazell53
Level 9
Apr 22, 2020
0
now you see, when i get something wrong, i am perfectly amenable to being corrected! thank you for letting me know )
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@genessa I haven't had time to say anything. After the rabbits, I need to say we all know Hindus eat live monkey brains - thank you Indiana Jones. 
I don't understand people's need to react. Listen, learn, ask, comment.
Understand someone else might be providing another piece to a great big puzzle.....or a little bitty pie. Whichever.
Reactions to some people seem to be a sort of social currency.
I grew up in a family of non listeners, reactionaries to whatever the hell they thought they saw going on in the worldl.
It's painful for some of us
twill
Level 7
Apr 22, 2020
0
i react for the benefit of others. unchallenged, a lie (or error) may be believed by others! i had no hope of getting the two people i mentioned to understand but i may well have clarified the matter for someone else. that made it worth my effort.
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I've given up on correcting people about roman catholicism. People assume they know everything about it but they don't know anything.
Theresa_N
Level 8
Apr 22, 2020
1
it is so easy to say "i don't know" when one doesn't know, but some people can't manage it, eh?
i will partially quote the defender. see if this makes sense to you: "I knew it was an emotional thing for you as I have spoken with many jewish people in unbeliever groups that believe like you. I'm sorry but the fact is Judaism is simply another delusional belief."
so he has spoken with many jews in unbeliever groups that believe like me, and that proves i am wrong about judaism? jews don't know about judaism, only HE knows?
if i find out i am wrong about something, i might verify before conceding, but i don't just dig in! i "sit" corrected and sometimes even thank the corrector (depending on whether they've been polite or pissy) i have never yet found myself injured or having to pay a tax on conceding a point when i find out i am wrong..
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It would seem to me that the "old testiment" or torah would be the written laws for the Nation of Israel over 2000 years ago: (law of Mose's), governmental official records and writings. Many books of old testiment written by a Prophet which is kind of like president or executive position, then the Book of Judges, books of recorded songs and poetry.
NOW, consider the current laws and legal structure of the current nation of Israel which is not specifically following biblical or old dictate.
The Israeli system of government is based on parliamentary democracy.[1] The Prime Minister of Israel is the head of government and leader of a multi-party system. Executive power is exercised by the government (also known as the cabinet). Legislative power is vested in the Knesset. The Judiciary is independent of the executive and the legislature. The political system of the State of Israel and its main principles are set out in 11 Basic Laws. Israel does not have a written constitution.[2] wikipedia
This is what I point out when someone wants to say something of the old testiment is taken out of context.
NO, I say it is not taken out of context, it appearst to me it would be out of jurisdiction. the laws of the old testiment would be the laws of the jurisdiction of the old nation of israel not laws to be specifically used out side the nation of israel or that jurisdiction from over 2000 years ago.
Word
Level 8
Apr 22, 2020
1
i think even the nation of israel doesn't follow biblical judaism, not allowing the owning of slaves or advocating (or allowing) stoning to death adulterers, for two examples of many. on top of that, the question (and it is only an example -- i've seen it in political posts too -- for example, saying that trump never said a particular asinine thing he never said, despite the fact that everything he says IS asinine doesn't make me a trumpkin!) is of why peopleget so pissy about things they think they know, especially when challenged.
g
In my experience, most people have a fairly limited understanding of the religion they were raised in and a lot of misconceptions about any other religions, however they often get very defensive if you point this out to them. Add to this ignorance the politicization of religions and you have the recipe for all sorts of conflict, for example it is hard to point to a war that didn't have religious aspects to it.
Are Israelis in conflict with Palestinians or is it a matter of Jews who happen to be Israelis in conflict with Muslims who happen to be Palestinians? It is quite impossible to separate the religions from the conflict and the media promotes this as well. The same would apply to the conflict with India and Pakistan or the conflict in Ireland or Tibet and China, etc. etc.
One thing I do find interesting is when Atheists or Agnostics define themselves as 'culturally jewish' because I have always consider being a Jew to be a religious definition not a cultural one. I never hear people say that they are an Atheist but they identify culturally as Xstian, or Muslim, etc. Considering the fact that the members of the Jewish faith were stateless for so many centuries I can't decide if this makes it less likely for an Atheist/Agnostic to define themselves culturally as a Jew or more likely. If you can help me make sense of this I would be interested in hearing your opinion.
Surfpirate
Level 9
May 3, 2020
0
It is complex and i would like to come back to this. I have explained it many times bit am involved in something else right now. If i don't come back in a few days, remind me!
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@genessa Not a problem, it's just that I had a friend who was Jewish and very Alpha Male so needless to say we butted heads often and he always (FUCKING ALWAYS) made the point that being Jewish was a religious designation. There is no Jewland or Jewtopia he was often heard to say.
He was an Agnostic btw but I always felt he identified as a cultural jew.
Religion in the United States is being used as a hate weapon! An example would be abortion! Where is men who get women pregnant in the abortion issue? It is straight men who get women pregnant and straight men despise gay people so the religious right wing republican men support the straight men? Why are not the men who get woman pregnant responsible for abortion as well! It takes 2 to conceive a child!
soobydoody607
Level 6
Apr 27, 2020
0
interesting point. not especially related to the topic but still interesting.
g
Nope! Men can scream about abrtions when they take part in the pregnancy??
It is easy to find negative examples in any religious or political groups and then paint the entire group, and their beliefs and practices, with a broad brush of moral corruption. Democrats kill babies, Republicans cage immigrant children, Muslims are all members of ISIS, and socialists should all move to Venezuela or North Korea if they like communism so much. It is equally pointless to argue about what each group believes in or practices because there are so many splinter groups that one can find countless counter-examples. "The majority" of X is also meaningless since a motivated minority can and will take over any organization.
RickTheChemist
Level 4
Apr 25, 2020
0
i don't think it is pointless if you have an audience. one on one, yeah, no way you can convince people with that mindset. but in a setting like this with people who might not post but do read, and might not KNOW the facts, i think it is not just helpful but important to present facts.
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Practice what you preach! Trump is the worst!
I have noticed this forum has some real prominent people always going for their prejudice and starts with character attacks instead of attacking the argument. Somehow this plattform allows them but if you do the same to them you get blocked and banned.
Maybe their is just a small portion of rotten eggs here and the majority is well behaved and intelligent enough to avoid character attacks but the moderators sure arent doing their job right.
Dark-blue
Level 4
Apr 24, 2020
0
cs10:
Community Guidelines #4. Recognize that there is a difference between criticizing a politician, government, organisation, religion or belief and attacking people.
If members attack you personally, please feel free to report them or block them. However, we're not here to censor members' criticism on Trump, Biden, or any other politicians.
@cs10
Lying about people is always defamation. Lying is not critiscism and criticising the person instead of what they argue or do is always an ad hom or character attack, thus not critisism.
You allow people here smear Trump with lies, bully him, you allow people here smearing me, calling me stupid, or other defamatory remarks and when I called them out on it, I get booted and silenced.
Its not just bad for the person being the target of these character attacks, allowing it to continue sets an example for others to do the same.
I attack the problem sir!
@genesss your handle is familiar to me. Aren't you one of those people who has an axe to grind about Muslims?
BitFlipper
Level 8
Apr 22, 2020
0
What do you expect? And why does it matter what particular things folks of ANY faith believe? who cares? It's all made up nonsense.
JustAskMe
Level 6
Apr 22, 2020
0
because facts matter, even facts about which fantasies belong to whom. note that i didn't make the original post. i responded to it because the statement was so wrong. i care because i care. i could ask you, why do you care whether i care? i mean you care enough to respond here. why should you care how i feel like using the site, and to whom i respond? i am not saying you shouldn't. i am asking why you do (if you didn't, you wouldn't have responded). that kind of thinking is a mirror within a mirror within a mirror.
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Loved it! You crack me up.
" ..note that the fact that i am talking about something i encountered doesn't mean i am excited, upset, emotional or distraught. it means i am sharing an experience with y'all that is pertinent to the subject of this site."
Finally someone here who can brake it down for the understanding-impaired. Or do you suppose some people just have a lot of crankiness inside and have to stalk strangers for an opportunity to get it out?
MarkWD
Level 7
Apr 22, 2020
0
definitely the latter! not all trolls are russian and have a political purpose. some trolls are just mad that their bridges got a little noisy, or not noisy enough, and just want to stir stuff up, right? )
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Well said. I learned about cultural Jews when attending a picnic put on by a budding atheist group "The Brights." The biggest group were cultural Jews and they said they were the largest secular group in the world. It was a real eye opener for me.
JackPedigo
Level 9
Apr 22, 2020
0
i bet!
may i ask if you happen to know why they were called the brights? i ask because i knew a family called bright. probably coincidence. still, thought i'd ask!
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@genessa Here is a link: [the-brights.net] It is said to make changes (like people no longer use the word homosexual but gay) often times words need to change. It is now an international, online group and I am a member. Look into it.
@JackPedigo i shall, thanks! i am not big on joining things, but on the other hand, i like to learn about new things (and i did join ag dot com after all, didn't i? ) )
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@genessa It's online and one may or may not get actively involved. I was more active in the beginning until agnostic came along. My late partner was from Iran and she once helped the group work out their Farsi language site.
@JackPedigo i took a glance and it looks interesting. i may explore more deeply later. i am running on empty -- hey, have you heard of this sleep thing? i hear it is very refreshing for the brain but i can't find out where to buy it! i understand if one lies down and closes one's eyes, one might be able to produce it oneself, but i seem unable to do that.
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@genessa Is there a link? I have learned that short (15 min) meditations, Lemon Balm tea, trying to avoid too many negative things, getting away from screens at least 1/2 - 1 hour before bed time and several other relaxation methods does wonders. I have not had a bad night for months. Of course that's just me and being in a calming place helps a lot.
@JackPedigo sorry, not sure what link you're asking about. to sleep? well i suppose if there was a link to, say, a marie osmond or carpenters concert that would either put me to sleep, make me comatose or make me puke, but since i don't know which, i am not going to try it! meditation makes me nervous but i love lemon balm, and have grown it. i don't have any at the moment. anyway i am sure i will crash eventually. how eventually is another matter.
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@genessa I read the question if I have heard of this sleep thing? I assumed there was some sort of link. I often spend my last couple of hours in front of the TV and watch a variety of things from period British murder mysteries to whatever. Try to watch something with nature during the last 1/2 to 1 hour. I learned not to read my Atlantic or National Geographic magazine before bed (lunch is better). My brother sent me a Bill Bryson book (A walk in the woods) and now this kind of funny and/or uplifting books really make a difference. I discovered a local (Seattle) author who lives in my old neighborhood that I love. She is Lyanda Lynn Haupt and her book "Crow Planet" was wonderful. She has written several and Now I am on her "Urban Bestiary." Strangely, I learned to work mid-level crosswords just before lights out. Somehow that concentration on something not grating helps a lot. There are lots of forms of meditation and I have read several books each with it's own form. I have combined elements from each and only spend 15 minutes once or twice a day. I also have Lemon Balm growing but it is a real invasive. We have a labyrinth here and one of the owners dries the herb and gave me a jar. I have a dryer and may do my own.
@JackPedigo rofl i was making a funny!
i need to plant more lemon balm. it makes the whole area smell SO nice, and it's pretty too! spearmint is also wonderful. to dry either, i pick a whole stalk and hang it upside down in my closet. when it sees how many dresses i have that no longer fit me, it faints and begins to dry up.
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@genessa Thanks for reasons to not remove it. It has become invasive here and I am always pulling it. Now maybe I'll save what I pull. Wonder if it might repel mosquito's?
Right now I have the opposite problem. My pants are getting too big and I am back to wearing suspenders. I blame it on the gym being closed. lol
@JackPedigo Readiing that they changed, allegedly, the name for homosexuals got me thinking; why on earth is there a need, in this day and age, to label a person on one aspect of their sexuality?
Should we start calling people "doggy", "missionary", "threesome", or "fetishist"?
I'm guessing that the discrimination of gays was decided by a couple of sentences in the Bible, nevertheless, it is amazing that it has been obsessed over by many heterosexuals for centuries.
@Magister Often words have meanings and the negative connotations of those words have stuck. Atheist is very negative and many use it as an in your face reply to the religionists. There are other, less volatile words. For instance less usually has negative feelings I prefer to use Free as childfree and godfree. Words can an do change how people see things.
@JackPedigo Yes, free does sound very inoffensive. It is interesting how some words seem to have the ability to offend only when they are intended to label people
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