I’m an atheist but I want to ask a serious question.
Can the word God(s), Religion, Church, or any of these words related to theists have a positive place in the life of an atheist like me or other secular people?
Although I'm an atheist, I do know that some of my family/friends find much comfort in these words. I find their reasons for this infuriating (especially during this pandemic) but, if it eases their minds, I am comforted by that. i love them all very much and would hate to think their fear was immobilizing or causing harm to them.
Those sorts of words can be very useful when speaking to religious people. It's much easier to be sociable and on good terms with them if you speak their language.
Why not? Just because they don’t have the same emotional connotations that they do for the self-deluded, doesn’t mean that they can’t be treated academically.
What, outside of comparative superstitions, is the academic value of those concepts?
@redbai . . . literature (academically)
@redbai history, anthropology, psychology, sociology, comparative religion, art history, philosophy.........
@FearlessFly While I can see how the words might add to a fictional narrative, I am hard pressed to see any academic value.
@redbai so, if you’re Islamic, the history of your people is completely unaffected by those notions? Seriously?
@FearlessFly, @Gatovicolo While a theist might be able to make the argument that the words have an academic value in those fields (as those words actually have meaning beyond a fictional narrative to a theist) I don't see the value in the words academically to atheists as the OP specifies. To me those words would be no different than saying that zombies, werewolves and magical realms have an academic value where all I see are some interesting concepts to use in fictional narratives.
@Gatovicolo If you're Islamic your not an atheist.
@redbai I’m aware if that, but religion has an effect upon populations. They move, react, grow, effect other cultures, develop art all within a religious tradition. The concepts have an effect on a wide range of academic disciplines. As for personal issues, perhaps not, but they’re still academically important even if they’re philosophically farcical. .
@Gatovicolo While religions may affect cultures, that does not mean the words "God(s), religion or churches" have a positive affect on atheists. Also, the aspects of which you reference can be discussed in a "comparative superstitions" class (the idea that religions should be separated from other superstitions should be demonstrated before given special consideration) in discussions about how various superstitions have affected humanity as I said in my initial response.
I guess you could associate a "God" with the natural order of the universe. The only difference is the universe is indifferent to you and your journey.
I find it a mixed bag. Some Christian words like "sacred" and "soul" I find easy to attach meaning to, just not the same meaning they have. But I find no use for "sin", "creator" and "god"; there is nothing in my experience which they can attach to.
What on earth is a SOUL??
@Ungod well if it is anything at all it must be something on this earth since that is all we interact with. I just think of it as the seat of conscience. Something our consciousness is doing.independently of our conscious deliberations. Like dreams, fantasies or stray thoughts. Unlike reason, consciousness is messy.
Putting ice into a good malt whiskey is a sin
@MarkWD
My point is that there is no definition of “soul” that can be shown to be real or can be identified.
Everything you mentioned are mental functions of a capable brain.
Anything else is just made up and can’t be substantiated.
What makes the soul “the seat” of anything?!
How can you prove or demonstrate this?!
And what of SOUL MUSIC?!
I don't believe the Church or religion have any place in the life of an atheist. God, on the other hand, has been given so many definitions and is seen in so many ways that it's difficult to give a concrete answer. If by God you mean the all powerful ancient entity that watches you every second of your life, then absolutely not. But if you define God, as many people I know, as this abstract idea of positive energy in the universe that embodies good and gives comfort to people, maybe. It's a very interesting question.
Yes, I’ve really struggled with this question. I do try to stay away from these words but kind of get pulled back in a sought of “poetic pantheistic” way.
Perhaps, but only when moving beyond their traditional context, in the same frame of mind as that of my avatar:
“I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.”
Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason
imo the concepts might, once they are returned to their original definitions anyway, for example "God" might be Spirit--same thing you can create by walking into a room--Religion maybe Something ritual done over and over, "by rote" iow--that thing pagans do while calling it "worship"--Church is People, etc. I can dig up the relevant vv if you like. Fwiw the Bible literally says that Yah "had hated" believers, or what we now call "Christians." In more than one place even
Meh. Words are largely bullshit. But I do enjoy the stained glass, incense, Gregorian chants and all the trappings of religion. The ideas cause murder, injustice, war, missionaries.
Yes I think whatever your take on reality, being aware of ideas and beliefs around you is a positive thing. Belief and faith are concepts that expand beyond the parameters of religiosity and prejudice. I think it's okay to have an invisible friend if it makes you less lonely. Just in the back of your mind, be aware when push comes to shove you're still betting on yourself.
I don’t know any people like you who make a fuss about semantics so I couldn’t say.
I do know that if you want it to it can be a traumatic experience to use the words gods religion or church if you buy into your own rhetoric.
Alternatively, you could address the current challenges in life and consider the elements that cause people real problems and maybe help to address those
At this time there may be people who use those words that you could help, unless their use of those words bars your compassion and empathy.
@AkEyHeAdAkE Cripes. That seems a quite aggressive response!. You asked the question.
Maybe a considered retort might help the conversation along.
Sure it can, those words can have a positive place - making me happy, even laugh! It all depends on the context. For example, "Church". Hearing "the Church burned down" warms my heart! Or "Religion" - it would make me happy to hear "Religion has been banned from schools". Or the word "God", it would make me laugh to hear "Oh God I have dedicated my whole life to you -- why did you let this happen?!! Aaaaarrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhh! The Pain!!!!!!"
If you set your internal frame of reference as atheist or agnostic, your whole lifestyle and focus, would be thus.
On the other, if you shunt between and dab into the two, being indecisive, your physical, emotional and psychological being will certainly be controlled and affected, in that manner.
For example, who would you rather believe would control/cure COVID19, god/God or science, or a combination of the two.
Try it, you will see.
I imagine if a church local to you does a lot of community service and you are into community service, then maybe there may be parts of the church activities that you cn like...Just like there are parts of a person that you may like even though you pretty much don't like that person.
I wouldn't say that it have a positive place in my life but it certainly have in someone else's so I will always try to use it in a positive way. Like, it's impossible argue religion, philosophy, history or even science without this words, so make it in a way that work for you.
Words are used for communication. Certainly there can be times when words with a religious source or meaning are the proper choice to convey your thoughts. Using words that are empty & meaningless to you does not mean you suddenly believe their context. Simple example: if someone sneezes and you say "bless you" you're not suddenly a believer; you're just following social protocol. It's just words.
†he problem with Religions are †hese Dol†s, Minions & ʞƆ∩F†ards, make LAWS †ha† suppress others. It always amazes me when a politician will get up & tell how †heir Christian upbringing has helped form a wonderful law of suppression.
My fav is when Christians claim to be suppressed.
Goddess ßless.
God could be your best self...
RELIGION is most accurately defined as “way of life” and should be able to be just that!
SPIRIT meant MIND in the Buddhism I lived.
They also called the pantheon of gods in Buddhism realities and descriptions of reality, life, nature, the universe and human potential/nature...
Everything was reality and should never contradict known science!
You are free to define whatever word you like having whatever meaning you wish to endow. Some people define God as nature; Church as any beautiful building or community of people that like each other.
I define God as probably fictional (in most cases malevolent leader of masses of delusional theist unwilling or unable to accept or process the complexities of reality in favor of blind obedience to an unsubstantiated or supernatural (not real) leader fictional or (in some cases) real figure adored by delusional masses who place such tyrants such as tRump in positions of indefensible power.)
I define Church as a structure or organization designed to brainwash sheeple into accepting faith (belief without evidence) over facts - - to dumb down the masses and devalue truth, science, integrity, and honsty so Charlestons can harvest the resources of the ignorant masses religions produce.
I define religion as the product of faith (belief without evidence defended against evidence); an organization or practice of those who have surrendered the riggers of ration thought for their own intellectually lazy self comfort.
Religion is most accurately defined as WAY OF LIFE.
Only in MAKE BELIEVE can you just make up your own meaning for words!
Words are defined by COMMON USAGE by a specific group of people.
If you make up your own definitions for words then conversation is pointless!
LOL
Let's examine YOUR definition of religion.
"Religion is most accurately defined as WAY OF LIFE." Ok "MOST ACCURATELY" - by your definition of MOST and COMMON USAGE will will find your definition show up first when we consult the dictionary.
Perhaps in your "specific group of people" this is the accepted definition of religion.
How do you define "a specific group of people?" If a small group that agrees "god" is yellow fish that swims in the local lake? is that fish not called "god?" Do you need a cult of a thousand followers before the yellow fish can be called god" Ten thousand? How about two people? Where do you draw the line? How about one? You should watch the Atheist Experience. (really a fun show (seriously, rather sure you would enjoy it. You will find many people have different definitions of words That's (like it or not) just the way it is. Conversations with often vastly different definitions of words are difficult but not "pointless" as the meanings of words are carefully defined and fleshed out.) In the show theists call in and assert the existence of their god. Usually the first thing the hosts of the show ask is to have the theists define their god. There are nearly as many different nuanced definitions of god as there are theist that assert there is a god. The first definitions of God and Church I borrowed from many (common usage in their circle) theists that expressed that definition of those words from The Atheist Experience show.
Back to my LOL
Your define MOST ACCURATELY "religion as a WAY OF LIFE" I find your definition lame as it from my experience it fails miserably to recognize the many facets religion imbibe. As dictionaries form definitions by the COMMON USAGE of words we should find your MOST ACCURATELY definition first when we open the dictionary;
So let's Google religion
noun: religion
#1: the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
#2: a particular system of faith and worship.
#3: a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.
What? no "WAY OF LIFE!" but these are the "COMMON USAGE" of religion???? Surely you can't be wrong unless you group is too small to be noted first in the dictionary Google brings up? Perhaps you are defining "Supreme importance" "as way of life." because "way of life" is defined as "the typical pattern of behavior of a person or group." Surely that can't be the case as you would never define a word beyond the common usage.
Or perhaps you are defining "Most" as whatever you want think is the best?"
Most is defined as "the greatest amount, nearly all, the majority." Surely this can not be the case. LOL
@NoMagicCookie
In 3 words, WAY OF LIFE is good:
noun. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
[dictionary.com]
The point is, my hyper sensitive to criticism friend is, dictionaries define usage of a GROUP of people.
There is a dictionary of AMERICAN English.
There are SCIENCE dictionaries.
AND words have more than one definition.
If you think “You are free to define whatever word you like having whatever meaning you wish to endow.” you are simply characteristic of GODDITE IDIOTS!
Meaningful discussion is fruitless!
“...the conduct of human affairs” IS INDEED “way of life” and includes what religion is - a way of life!