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I think the definition of religion should be expanded. I think there are many belief systems that function like religion and have many of the same flaws. I think we have religion because if fulfills several functions. I think we all have certain basic spiritual needs. Life is insecure, uncertain, and impermanent. We all want to be recognized, appreciated, valued, and loved. Religion fulfills all of these needs. Life is secure because the all powerful, all knowing, and benevolent god is taking care of you. Also there is the sense of security with the herd (your fellow worshipers). God loves you and you are special because you have this connection with this magical being. But I think there are many other belief systems which fulfill many of these same spaces.

For instance, narcissism. You worship your own image. You feel secure because you are perfect. You feel loved, because you love yourself and only allow people into your life who worship your image.
In cults, you worship the cult leader. Life is secure because the cult leader is making all of your decisions and you have invested him with supernatural powers. And, of course, you have the support of your fellow cult members.
Even racism is a kind of pseudo religion. It gives you a sense of being valued because you are a member of the superior race. It gives you comfort in the face of lifes insecurity because you can handle it, because you are superior. And as with any pseudo religion, you have a sense of overcoming lives impermanence, because the tribe and the mythology will live on when you were gone.
There are many other memes and belief systems that fill the same spaces in us as religion. It is only when we are willing to leave those spaces open that we can truly be agnostic or atheist.

augimmun 5 Apr 26
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17 comments

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I know there are plenty of people who say that certain ideological dogmas are religions. Usually though I like to make a personal distinction and use the term "religion" in quotes when talking about them.

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Free Market Economics is clearly a form of religion. True Free Marketers believe that any interference by regulating agencies is artificial. They consider virtually any interference by any non-believing entity a violation of their inalienable rights. Accumulation of wealth is a measure of righteousness. They worship Capitol for Capitol's sake. They have their own esoteric language which demeans some individuals and exalts others like (human capital) They even have their own deity they refer to as "The Invisible hand of the Market" which is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. This deity rules over it's own realm (the market) which exists for it's own sake irrespective of the effect it has on it's human subjects. If the great free market is criticized the critics are ostracized and labeled with demeaning terms like socialist, communist and worse.

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Narcissism is a mental disorder so filling a church with narcissists would not be that easy and if you could they'd probably kill each other ..lol

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First of all, I'd like to thank everyone who commented on my post. I find it fascinating to get a little glimpse into what other people think. Most people disagreed with my posting. I'm OK with that. I learned a long time ago the reality is not a majority vote.
A few points of clarification. I do not think literally that these other ways of thinking should be called religions. I was speaking metaphorically.
Secondly, I was hoping that I did not need to state that I think racism is a bad thing. Maybe I do. First of all, this is agonstic.com, so we all think that religion is a false narrative; so saying that something is like religion is not an endorsement. Secondly, in our society, the word racist is not a compliment. It is generally accepted to be a pejorative term. Even racists denied that they are racists.
Lastly, as for those of you who claim to have no spiritual needs, in the sense that was in my posting, I am skeptical. I've met many people who claimed to have no spiritual needs; I've met non that seemed to actually have none. Furthermore, in the arts, philosophy, religion, and literature such issues are ubiquitous.

Apart from the indifferent or ambivalent among us, you've highlighted what appears to be two distinct camps regarding the use of the term spiritual: a) those who eschew its use entirely, and b) those who embrace the secular, nonreligious and perhaps even scientific application of the word. I count myself as part of the latter group, and am quite at ease, depending on the circumstances, exchanging the term 'spiritual' with descriptors such as inspiring, emotional, moving, breathtaking, stirring, mind-blowing, poignant and even Abraham Maslow's famous Peak Experience. Who would have predicted that using the word 'spiritual' (the Latin root of which is "spiro" i.e., "breathe" ) would become a third rail? Certainly not one of my favorite nonbelievers, Carl Sagan, who famously said:

"Science is not only compatible with spirituality it is a profound source of spirituality."

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What you mean is belief system, not religion. Religion is definitely the belief system that contains supernatural components. It is more than just a belief system but a social system too. There's hierarchy and social obligations. You are both making religion more than it deserves and less by not focusing on the reality of the details about what religion is.
Religion does focus on the imaginary aspects, let's just say the separation from reality not just the negative social aspects, like making fairly good intentioned people do bad things.

Wouldn’t atheism also be a belief system?

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Your definition of "Spiritual needs" as "want to be recognized, appreciated, valued, and loved" has nothing to do with a yet to be demonstrated supernatural (not of the natural (real) world) God.

Dictionary: "religion" "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods."

When I was young I recognized religion (dishonestly asserting faith (belief without evidence) is a path to truth (thing that can be demonstrated with evidence (faith is necessary for religions as with evidence of a god, you would not need faith) as a blight on civilization as it discourages and in some cases severely restricts skeptical and critical thinking skills.

In my youth I recognized the Christian church was trying to teach (fill my head with nonsense) me things that were demonstrably NOT based on testable realty, I grew up. I felt no childish need for an invisible sky daddy to hold my hand and make me feel better. Over the years, I have helped many former theists ascend from the darkness and fear of superstition into the real world where they take increased responsibility for their actions and enjoy the diversity of others their church had warned them to fear and hate.

". . . . leave these spaces open that we can truly be agnostic or atheist." ?????

That is utter and complete nonsense.
Agnostic = not knowing there or is not a god
Atheist is not accepting the theist's positive claim that a god exists.

There are no other other requirements.
No need to remain silent or muted when theists interject nonsense.
I usually use the world "spiritual" nonsense as most theists (and the dictionary) include a supernatural (not of the real world; spirit, soul) component to the term "spiritual".

You put it very well indeed!

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The newest, most popular religion is "spiritual, but not religious".

What the hell is a spirit? No evidence for the existence of spirits has been collected in the known history of man.

Mostly these people believe in hooey, sky daddy and/or Jesus christ, and just don't go to church. I get nervous when I see "spiritual, but not religious".

SCal Level 7 Apr 27, 2020

When I see "spiritual, but not religious" I just want to laugh.

(My spirits come in the form of rum, brandy, gin and whisky. If I was to drink those to excess, would I become very spiritual?)

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The more I read that the more I love it. Very true.

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Would you consider Tea Party Republicanism a religion?

LOL! I would call it a collective insanity. 🙂

@anglophone that is what religion is.

@Ryu-Dad I think "collective insanity" is the product, not the definition of religion.

Yes I do, in the sense that I said in my posting, that it satisfies many of the same spiritual/emotional needs. I also think that there are groups on the left that are as well.

@augimmun Trump has bragged he is "The Chosen One. .....Republicans bow down to their God.

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You can call fairy tales what you want. Religion is nonsense.

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I see it as a mistake to conflate the meanings of various lexical items that you mention.

I disagree with your assertion that we all have certain basic spiritual needs.

Religion does not satisfy any of my needs. I find it to be absurd.

Racism does not in any way give me a sense of being valued because I am a member of a superior race. Moreover, I find the concept of a "superior race" to be utterly repellent.

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I have no need of religion of any kind. As for being "spiritual" in any way this can be anything you want it to be. It might be "spiritual" for you to sit and watch the ocean but the term you are using still came out of someone's holy book. What basic spiritual need is it that we have? This is all delusion. Many people want to be happy having this delusion but they also cannot be honest with themselves.

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I do not believe in bullshit, regardless of how you want to define it. Bullshit is and always will be exactly that: bullshit.

Agreed!

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I feel no need for anything spiritual or anything that resembles religion. I can stand beneath the night sky and stare out into the universe, or look at an insect, and feel a great sense of connection. Through science, I know that everything is connected; we are all made from the same "star stuff."

I find much more comfort in knowing that shit just happens sometimes and there is no cosmic reason for anything. When I believed in a god I had to wonder why it allowed such horrible things to happen to good people, to children--now I don't have to ask that question.

People delude themselves into thinking that their god is looking out for them while it is simultaneously allowing horrible things to happen to others. And, when something horrible happens to them, well--god's plan and all that poo.

I think if children were taught reality from the start, they would not feel the need to turn to gods and fairy tales; and, instead, will look inside themselves and turn to fellow humans (family, the community) for support, comfort etc. when they need it. And, this support need not be under the guise of an expanded definition of religion or spirituality.

May I add that religion by definition does not allow for "upgrading" your understanding of the universe so there is never any place for new knowledge. And a corollary to that is that each religion claims to explain everything and that there is nothing worthwhile outside of that knowledge. I can marvel at the majesty of the night sky and be content knowing that we know so little. A religious belief system does not allow that. I value my freedom so religion needs to take a chill pill. 😁

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First you have to prove a god is real with objective evidence. Religion is meant to control how people think. I out grew religion and became and atheist. I love myself, but don't need people to worship me. Never did the cult thing. Been there and do the racist thing. I met some people that showed me racism was wrong. Now I look as people as humans, all equal no matter their skin color.

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We have tribal instincts that lead us into these faulty ideologies. We have a need to belong because we are social animals. It's difficult to leave that behind completely.

Not trying to nitpick your statement, but I do not believe in instincts. I believe that all behavior is learned from environment.

I'm fine if you want to discuss this or just ignore the statement.

Cheers!

@BryanLV I can't really argue with you on that, because I'm not knowledgeable enough, though I will say I've always believed we have a certain amount of instinctual behavior. I'll have to think about it for a while.

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