"In a certain sense, postmodernism seems to be the last step of secularization.
As long as we still have depths, essences, and foundations, we are still in the awe inspiring presence of the Divine, we have not really killed God. We have simply given him a series of majestic new names: Nature, Humanity, Reason, History, Progress, and so on...
Rather than dismantling the whole outdated apparatus of metaphysics and theology, we have simply given it a new content. Only by breaking with the whole notion of 'deep' meaning can we break free. Not, to be sure, free to be ourselves, because the metaphyscal essence or substance formerly known as 'self' has also been dismantled."
(Terry Eagleton)
With respect, Eagleton, it seems to me, sounds almost Chopraesque in his initial deepities, although I do resonate with this statement: "Only by breaking with the whole notion of 'deep' meaning can we break free."
"Deep" or hidden or occult meaning is fundamentally a religious concept, sure. Life just is what it is, a series of things happening. Once you get that through your head, it's easier to bear. You don't fancy that it's personal or "supposed" to be some way or other.
It does not follow however that you have to then confine yourself to atonal or serialist music, abstract art, and nonsense poetry. Things can be lyrical or have beginning, middles, ends and some kind of narrative. You can express things coherently. You just don't need to take it very seriously.
Imho, God in this context is the God of the Bible. To assert that we have given him a series of new names such as Nature, Humanity, Reason etc is to make a nonsense of the English language.and to abandon rationality.
I regard metaphysics, as opposed to the philosophy of science, as an absurdity.
I regard theology as a time-wasting activity engaged in by the cognitively challenged.
Do I sound like an ass-hole of a bitch? Yes, I do. I have no time for such sloppy thinking. See also my bio.
Such nonsense... And of course don't defend your position
We cannot kill that which does not exist. I agree o the issue of metaphysics. Still, I use the word "deep" to convey that the construct conveys more different and significant cognitive connections at different levels of complexity. Good to see you posing again. Das freut mich!
"It may also be that even postmodernism, with its aversion to absolute foundations, secretly smuggles such an absolute into the argument. It is not, to be sure, God or Reason or History, but it behaves in just such a bottom-line sort of way. Like these other absolutes, it is impossible to delve beneath it. For postmodernism, this is known as Culture."
I think that's why Douglas Murray claims postmodernism is a new religion with its own religious leaders, doctrines and heretics. I don't think it's really a doctrine of things they believe in, more a doctrine of what they don't believe. I think its negativity expresses itself in the extreme with the likes of Antifa.
I think 'substance' needs to be defined here and which philosopher's thinking is behind this.
@Fred_Snerd They can, of course but the terrain and the vocabulary, has been mapped out a long time ago.
@Allamanda I understand that there are historical examples of great minds inventing ideas independently. Newton and Leibniz coming up with calculus, for example. But I spend a lot of time reading philosophy and the thrust of it is giants repeatedly standing on the shoulders of other giants.
@Allamanda My point is that it must be derived from the forms of thought that have come to us. There never has been another way in all the history of philosophy. We discuss using the terms and the vocabulary that has been handed down to us. The only other way I know of people getting inspiration is through revelation, and you know I don't believe in that..
Ohferpetessake, I guess we renamed gawd because we need him/her/it??????? Annnnddd I have no idea who I am??????
Don’t my kmow about that. Post modernism will evolve in part to neo-tribalism and the depth of communal and personal connection must emerge, the natural counter to neo-liberalism.
Depths, essences and foundations represent the awe-inspiring, inexplicable mystery of reality, conscious awareness, existence itself. How can we possibly break free of deep meaning when the nature of existence is such a staggering and profound mystery?
Because something like the ultimate nature of self is beyond physics is no reason to dismantle the concept. It might be tempting for some to be free of ignorance and mystery, but that kind of freedom is impossible in my opinion.
@Allamanda I read it several times. Where am I off here?
@Allamanda If by divine you mean magical and supernatural, then I would agree that getting rid of such a concept would be a step toward freedom. But since no one alive understands conscious awareness, which, after all, is the crux of self, I would classify Self as a metaphysical concept—metaphysical because it is not explained by science. It’s still natural but is shrouded in deep mystery.
There is much more to this situation in which we find ourselves than is apparent. To ponder metaphysical ideas is the height of human achievement IMO.
James Clerk Maxwell:
“It has been asserted that metaphysical speculation is a thing of the past, and that physical science has extirpated it. The discussion of the categories of existence, however, does not appear to be in danger of coming to an end in our time, and the exercise of speculation continues as fascinating to every fresh mind as it was in the days of Thales.”