Morals. I've come to the conclusion that there are none. We will do the dirty things we must do, to survive, protect and prosper. The regular day to day living. It's built into societies, cultures, families/ religion. It overwhelms the individual.
A Moral Code: A justification to get away with shit
Now with that out of the way, what is it that is Good? That is "moral"?
I am thinking it is the right choice, when the moment to act is upon us. Without the right action, I really don't have good morals, they are a personal fallacy or they obviously don't matter....what good is a Moral Code if it excuses the wrong action?
I don't have morals. I've acted wrongly many times.
Yet......I have done the "right" thing 1000's of times.
What am I missing here?
Thanks to all who help. This is my big question of the week to myself
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15 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.As usual with things that are incorrect, the initial premise is wrong. You just decided to state that there are no morals. Then you proceeded later to say that you do the right thing which means that you have morals or what you have decided is right in the moral sense.
lerlo
Level 8
May 11, 2020
0
"right" not right....I leave that open to the readers interpretation
"I am thinking it is the right choice, when the moment to act is upon us. Without the right action, I really don't have good morals"
Less about right and more about the act.....I don't know how I can make that clearer without writing a book.
If the action doesn't cause anyone harm, or cause me angst, then to me it is right.
But again without the the act.....what is it?
The Golden Rule is all anybody needs to know about morality.
Storm1752
Level 8
May 10, 2020
0
Word:
gold·en rule
/ˌɡōldən ˈro͞ol/
noun
a basic principle that should always be followed to ensure success in general or in a particular activity.
"one of the golden rules in this class is punctuality"
the biblical rule of “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” (Matt. 7:12).
What if a person were into the 50 shades of kink and wanted people to beat them up? does that mean they should do to others and beat others up so that they then get betten up?
Morals boil down to interections with those around you, IMO. Are you kind? Helpful?
Writing a letter to the editor is opinion & action, neither good nor bad. So is contributing to a cause.
I see moral actions all around me every day by people who never bother to ponder "morality", they just know what feels right.
AnneWimsey
Level 9
May 10, 2020
1
Morals are internal. When the end of the day comes and you find yourself in that crude moment of truth when it is just you and your pillow: did I do right? did I do wrong? That is when your morals matter, and they matter just to you.
A moral code is external. Our right to satisfy our needs ends at the point where that same right starts for the next person. And the morality of every single decision stands on its own. 1000 moral acts do not wash away the scorn of an immoral one, just as 1000 immoral acts don’t take away the virtue of a moral one. And yet, a person’s social value, that is, how valuable a person is for his social group, is cumulative, and his or her stand before them will depend of whether that person is a 1000 to 1 or a 50 to 50.
Life is a balancing act.
Rodatheist
Level 7
May 10, 2020
2
The code is external....and externally influenced? A compromise?
@twill Exactly! It is a way to regulate our actions as we are part of a group. I imagine that in nazi times, killing a non-Arian would make you moral and socially acceptable; a good member of that group. Although that society in itself was not accepted by the rest of the societies as a good member and was dealt with as it was.
I think your post is very confused. A moral code is nothing more than a set of rules or principles you choose to live by and there are many different moral codes from, do as you would be done by, to, do unto them before they do unto you, and another particularly useless set of 10 rules that a 6 yo could have crafted better. "Morals"as a separate noun seem to be something other people tend to define as a way to judge someone else. I think if you examined your behaviour carefully you'd see your moral code even if you weren't aware of it. Perhaps it's, I'm number one, or, be nice when it doesn't cost you anything, but I suspect it's not quite that dispassionate. It's not too difficult for example to see trump's moral code. "Only I matter" perhaps?
Cyklone
Level 7
May 10, 2020
1
Yes, it is confused
Okay. Glad your kid is honest. It's good that you don't question your morals. This isn't a personal attack.
A core question however remains?
Did the morals create the action or vice versa? Was your child honest before he returned the excess money or after he did?
And what is the moral "code" about beyond hitching a ride on anothers moral "code"?
Jeffery Dahmer pet a dog yesterday and ate a human today........
@ToolGuy My son Joe, had sticky fingers as a child. Which culminated in him stealing $100 from the hotel room safe from me at a waterpark. About 3- 1 /2 years ago.
At the time he had much anger towards me and he hated me.
He never admitted it. I never punished him. It was a standoff. But he understood how I felt.
Now he wouldn't do it and I trust him. He loves me again and trusts me. He will share and even buy me something like a candy bar if he is "shopping".
IDK.....Is sometimes there's just something lacking in a person? It seems most hardcore criminals had childhood issues.
My other son, Sam who as far as I know, has never taken anything from anyone that didn't belong to him, is still much less likely than Joe to share what he has.
Odd.
Another thing about Joe, is we have realistic conversations about money. Saving, investing, earning, spending, etc.
Wearing a mask around people is empathetic and a moral imperative.
As an atheist since 13, I don't need a Bible to be a kind, ethical person. Being a good person is a series of daily choices.
Moral
adjective
of, relating to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical. (dictionary.com)
LiterateHiker
Level 9
May 10, 2020
3
The mask wearing, C-19, social media and other external factors are what is driving this conversation for me. People's quickness to throw morality into the mix....when I question if it is a factor, our possession of it and our basic understanding/ knowledge of it.
You don't need morals if you have scruples.
Surfpirate
Level 9
May 10, 2020
3
Scruples! Yes! I like that game too!!!
But will scruples lead you to the best/ desired/ inevitable action?
Just seems like a pause to me....you still gotta do what you gotta do
scru·ple
/ˈskro͞opəl/
noun
plural noun: scruples
- a feeling of doubt or hesitation with regard to the morality or propriety of a course of action.
"I had no scruples about eavesdropping"
@twill My personal understanding of morality is that is firmly based in religious definitions of what constitutes right and wrong but Scruples are a personal standard of ethics and integrity. Perhaps this is why scruples and morals can come into conflict with some more thoughtful religious types, they no how to behave according to the religious moral code they were raised to believe but they have some nagging doubts that are caused by their ethics and integrity.
ie religious folks that had ethical problems with slavery even though the concept of slavery is firmly rooted in the Old Testament and likewise the religious dogma that for centuries deemed black skinned humans (descendants of Cain) to be inferior to white skinned humans.
Integrity and Ethics trump Morality every time in my experience.
It may well be that we all have to make up our own morals. But impulses in the direction of certain morals are certainly genetic, or they would not appear in many different animals, especially social species of mammals.
They are however then culturally modified, sometimes to an extreme degree. Where wrong comes into it, is where religions and other institutions especially make the false claims, such as : 1. That they are the origins of morals. 2. That they have higher morals, because theirs alone are divine, therefore belittling the morals of others. 3. They push the cultural modification of the moral impulses until they no longer have any relation to their real evolved purpose. ( For example taking the natural aggression needed in protecting self and family, and persuading people that it should be used to kill, rape, maim etc. people who could really never be any threat to us. )
Fernapple
Level 9
May 10, 2020
0
I prefer the word ethics rather than morality. When I was in religion, I had no ethical code for myself. I was brainwashed to listen to church leaders and obey whatever they said, without question. Once I became free from religion, I found the need to form my own ethical code. I based it on the older-than-the-bible saying that we should treat others the way we would like to be treated. So, I do good for others, and do not hurt them, except when it is necessary to defend myself, or others, against their harmful actions.
BestWithoutGods
Level 8
May 10, 2020
8
Your questions are good, negating the statement about yourself
I do not know how you classify yourself and I do not wish to influence how you think of yourself but I guess if it happened in this group that classification would be philosopher.
I just want to say that as an ex -teacher wanting everyone to make themselves into scientists (and not succeeding very well) that this is how I would have started
First define a moral
without reference to waste material, because they do exist and have done so for a very long time.
Not easy
But not to worry I have become a philosopher too because people love words MORE than they do science.
I might continue this in two places on this site
- In the above post in its group
- My own science teachers group.
Depending on how other philosophers respond . Is this a challenge?
Mcflewster
Level 8
May 10, 2020
0
You haven't defined "right".
AtheistInNC
Level 7
May 10, 2020
2
You're right........LOL
I'd guess if I have taken an action that has caused me no regrets and satisfied me.
So the question becomes.....how do I know this BEFORE you take the action?
(This is all really helpful btw)
I am in general agreement with what you are saying. The right action is the one that leads to survival. Through instinct, instruction and trial and error we become adept at staying alive for awhile. The mistakes we make are not sins or moral wrongs. They are not even mistakes if those actions lead to learning.
Good and evil, moral vs. immoral—those dualities have no meaning from a cosmic perspective. Ultimate reality is good, period, and that’s all there is.
WilliamFleming
Level 8
May 10, 2020
3
Always a good answer.
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