Question? If you had two groups of people, one liberal, one conservative, lost in the forest. Which one would survive the longest? And I'm not talking about who can start a fire first for those who think organically. Think group long term cohesion and power structures
A ridiculous question ,political views have no connection to survival skills . This type of question just causes inflammation between people .
Then don't read it and don't respond. You are violating the rules level one. You better change your ways or you won't like it here.
i disagree, @howdy1. Political views may be irrelevant per se, but the characteristics which cause people to choose a particular political view are relevant. Studies have shown that there are key psychological differences between the liberal vs conservative mind. Conservatives have a more active amygdala or fear processing center than liberals. Survival in this sort of scenario requires the ability to put fear and anxiety on hold in order to creatively problem-solve. Liberals are more creative thinkers than conservatives, and this includes problem solving abilities. Conservatives tend to be more set in their cognitive processes making them less able to cope with change or unusual situations. Also, conservatives tend to pursue more selfish outcomes, and liberals tend to show more concern for those around them. So the personality and physical characteristic that cause a person to be liberal or conservative are the same ones that would determine the ability to cooperate in survival skills.
The liberals would survive the longest, because they would support and help one another. The conservatives have a mindset that every man should look our for himself -- let the fittest survive, and let the weakest die.
I think the group with practical skills would survive the longest. Vocational education and skilled labor are generally dominated in rural communities, though industrialized states in the rust belt and on the east coast have a high proportion of skilled labor. If you map both groups on the same map and compare the number of conservative states to liberal states, you’ll see that conservatives have the higher proportion of skilled labor.
@Allamanda I disagree. The group with the strongest vocational skills would have the upper hand in survivability. That correlates to conservatives. The question was about survivability in liberals vs conservatives.
@Allamanda Real meaning of conservative? That’s not what we’re talking about.
@Allamanda “ If you had two groups of people, one liberal, one conservative, lost in the forest. Which one would survive the longest?”
@Allamanda true. The congressional conservatives are not. The rank and file of the GOP principally are.
@Allamanda I blocked four people today for saying this post was stupid. I don't think they understood the question. One was a newby. Why would someone reply to a post they don't like to tell people the post is not to their liking?
@Allamanda, @Gatovicolo I purposely was vague in my question. I didn't want to put restraints on the conversation.
@PondartIncbendog “ If you had two groups of people, one liberal, one conservative, lost in the forest. Which one would survive the longest?”. That doesn’t seem very vague.
@Gatovicolo I'm sorry. I'll try to be more vague in the future.
@PondartIncbendog There are some interesting assumptions being made by people here. That conservatives would survive better because they are from rural areas. I do know that conservatives are dominant in rural areas. So maybe they are better at hunting and camping out. But I don't think that's the question. Maybe I'm wrong. I just assumed that both groups went out in to the forest with equal supplies or no supplies. And I did note in your question that you did want to make this question about power structures. I think some people here are missing the point.
The "Lost in the forest" is an interesting base line. We could call this a metaphor for a crisis. Like World war 2 or 911 or the financial crisis or this Pandemic. All the evidence shows that Liberals perform well when in charge during a crisis. Conservative thing strong leadership from the top is the only answer. Liberals mobilise the people and bring them together from the ground up. FDR in World war 2 is a great example. Trump is an example of someone that is incapable of doing that.
The Liberals would act as a group and support each other. When we evolved on the African plain we survived because we are a social animal. So the Liberals would survive. The conservatives would be concerned with the rights of the individual and not the collective putting them at a disadvantage.
So how would the power structure work and isn't that an immediate need?
I don't think how power is used is the issue. If you have a group of Liberals and a group of conservatives you don't need much control or power over them in order to rule the way you want to rule. They will agree with you without you having to take away their input into how things are run. It's when you lose support that Power corrupts people to do things against the will of the people. People on the Left and the right have done this time and time again throughout history. At this point in history it's the republicans that are abusing their power for the most part. Gerrymandering and Voter suppression are rampant now. But a group of conservatives who have 100% support to give to their leader negates the leaders desire to obtain more power in order to rule. There are exceptions of course. When you have a leader that is a malignant narcissist then the rule book can change. As we can see with Trump.
Firstly, in an emergency what is required is a captain, not a committee. If things need to be done quickly then you need someone trusted who will co-ordinate the group's actions. This does not exclude discussion, in fact, a good captain will welcome input from all sides but will ultimately make a decision alone.
I can think of no greater example than Ernest Shackleton. For those not familiar with the story his expedition got trapped in the Antarctic ice in 1914. The nearest help was over 200 miles away in a whaling station in S. America. They unloaded supplies off their ship before the ice crushed it and made it to Elephant Island. Shackleton and two other crewmen then sailed off in one boat whilst the remainder made a shelter out of another boat. The whole rescue took over 3 months but not a single man was lost. There have been many deeds of daring-do that capture the imagination but it is Shackletons man-management style that is worth studying today. For example; if any 2 crewmen had a beef with each other, far from keeping them separate he would order them to work, sleep and eat together until they resolved their differences. Later when rations were tight he organised a lottery system so that no crewman irrespective of rank could be perceived to be favoured. When a crewman complained that this system could be abused, he put that crewman in charge of it. In short, it was a mixture of liberal and conservative thinking that pulled those guys through.
At their worst, the conservatives would form a conclave of the fittest people and leave the others to hang, whilst the liberals would spend endless hours discussing who does what and freeze to death. At their best, they would work together utilizing the strengths of both systems of thought.
"At their worst, the conservatives would form a conclave of the fittest people and leave the others to hang, whilst the liberals would spend endless hours discussing who does what and freeze to death. At their best, they would work together utilizing the strengths of both systems of thought."
Excellent response. I think the independence of the liberals may be a factor in their survival. People in panic need a strong leader.
It depends entirely on the personality make up within each group. People fall into certain categories depending on what personality traits they have, and skill sets they are best at. The political leanings of either group will really make no difference to how they succeed, as groups are made up of individuals with diverse personalities, even within political groupings.
The group which succeeds best will be the one where there is only one clear leader and the others agree to that, that will provide cohesion. The subordinate positions will then fall into place naturally. A good lieutenant who is happy to makes sure the leader’s decisions are followed through, but who doesn’t want to to lead him/herself is also important. The rest of the group will find their own niches within the group as followers not leaders. Being a good delegator is an essential quality in a leader, as is an ability to inspire others and lead from the front, but at the same time a leader needs to have the ability to find consensus amongst the group for any decisions taken. Any group which has two alphas in it is in trouble from the start, because they will each want to lead, and it’s a rare quality in a person who can actually recognise that, and sacrifice their natural instinct to want to lead for the greater good...if one of them has that ability and decides to back the other as leader, then that group is likely to win. Any group that contains rivalries and the potential for factions and in-fighting arising within it, has lost before it even begins.
Pretty much what I said too except "Pray for a Shackleton".
cooperation is a long-term survival technique. but i reject the idea that we have conservatives anymore. we have regressives, not conservatives. today's regressives cooperate beautifully but only when they're plotting to consolidate power. that requires an enemy. if the two groups are not being pitted against each other, except in terms of surviving independenly of one another, them the regressives have no one against whom to plot and will turn on one another. therefore the liberals would survive the longest.
g
So, Squirrels or Hamsters?
That is a great answer. But maybe I was looking for that answer. And you understood the question perfectly. Kudos.
An interesting question that was famously put in William Goldings "Lord of the flies". However, here is an account of something that really happened when a bunch of kids ended up on Gilligans Island.
[theguardian.com]
That was an excellent article. A little hope for the Humans?
The ones who are better skilled at survival, despite their beliefs.
So, lets talk about group long term cohesion and power structures
Not talking about starting campfires and building tents.
@PondartIncbendog, agreed, although I'm not good at doing any of those things. I think it would only take a person who would be good at those things to make a difference, if it would come to those terms.
They are all great apes that have adapted to do just that. The difference that makes no difference is no difference at all.
I'm talking about modern humans. That statement doesn't mean anything.
@PondartIncbendog Conservatives and Liberals are Great apes as are Survivalist and quilting masters. They are humans that used their reasoning skills for other thinggs than survival. My point is we are all humans as political alignment makes no difference. That does mean something.
That depends. Where were they headed when they got lost?
If the liberals were headed to an antifa demonstration and the conservatives were headed to the bowling alley, my money's on the liberals.
If, however, the conservatives were going fishing and the liberals were headed to the coffee shop, I'll bet on the conservatives.
Sometimes, it really IS about the destination, and not just the journey. Take THAT, stupid inspirational quotes!
Lets say the conservatives were headed to McDonalds, and the liberals were headed to Olive Branch to get a salad. Cause we don't eat meat or own guns. Anyway, the donut shop just got robbed and,,,,,,,,,,,,what were we discussing?
Especially when driving to get Ice Cream. The destination is where it counts.
Who knows. There are smart liberals and smart conservatives.
So, lets talk about group long term cohesion and power structures
@PondartIncbendog Nah.
@Jolanta Then why did you respond?
@PondartIncbendog You know one doesn't have to respond in the way you want and talk about it till the cows come home. I am happy just to say this today.
@Jolanta Smart bitch blocked.
@PondartIncbendog can’t take a smart bitch can you
The people from either group who have common sense & some knowledge of survival tactics. WTH would politics have to do with creating shelter, (first priority) locating/collecting water, ( second priority), building a fire/creating a distress signal, binding wounds & etc? Doubt I am going to be voting until after I get rescued. I am a flaming liberal, and thanks to reading Mother Earth News in the 70's-80's, before it yuppy-fied, & DIY & camping, I feel confident in my survival skills.
Think long term.
People who don’t think short term won’t live to think long term.
@yvilletom You don't understand the question either. That's kinda like saying you have to come in low to land an airplane.
Let’s quibble some more; long exists but short doesn’t.
@yvilletom What? I am talking about group cohesion and long term tribal instinct. You are talking about starting a fire. Do you know the difference? You aren't even saying anything.
@PondartIncbendog I like short.