13-year-old Pennsylvania boy charged as adult in shooting death of younger brother
Shouldn't the parent also be charged in this case?
7
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29 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.At 13, a child's brain is not only undeveloped but also under the influence of hormones and prone to compulsive behaviors. How many of us can look back and recall all the stupid things we did without thinking about it first. This is not the crime of a fully developed adult and it should not be treated that way. This child is going to need extensive psychological help. Our punitive system is NOT designed to rehabilitate humans. It's designed to warehouse humans we don't want to deal with.
matt42
Level 4
July 17, 2020
9
Agree 100%.
This ^^^
From the article:
"a loaded handgun that their father kept in an unlocked cabinet".
The father is guilty, not the 13-year-old.
BitFlipper
Level 8
July 17, 2020
6
The parent is absolutly 100% to blame for this tragedy. And the 13 year old absolutely needs court ordered counseling for mental problems. And 13 is not, unless very exceptional, the age of reason, or accepting of responsibility.
HankSherman
Level 8
July 17, 2020
6
It is symptomatic of the National Rifle Association's stranglehold on Congress that the parent is not charged with the following offences:
- accessory to murder
- the possession of an unlicenced firearm
- failure to keep a firearm in a secure location
- child neglect
anglophone
Level 9
July 17, 2020
4
The father is completely culpable and should face the main charge of leaving a loaded gun in an unlocked cabinet when there were two minors who could access it, and therefore being responsible for the discharge of the gun and the death of the child. The boy, at 13 should have had an understanding not to play with the gun, but he is still a minor and should be counselled rather than punished in my opinion, he will have to live with the guilt and trauma of killing his younger brother, a child of only 9 years, for the rest of his life. That will be a heavy burden to carry in any case.
Marionville
Level 10
July 18, 2020
3
In my opinion yes. Obviously the weapon was not properly secured. In fact it was in an unlocked cabinet with its magazine loaded. That is irresponsible gun ownership and therefor in my mind the parent should be charged. At the same time the 13 year old should receive juvenile charges. Unfortunately he appears to not have been instructed in weapon safety as the parent didn't practice it. As many have pointed out this is another symptom of the NRA becoming far to powerful of a lobby in the government.
Even as a gun owner myself I despise the NRA. Hypocrites with more money to throw around than they should have and they are not what they used to be.
redhog
Level 7
July 17, 2020
3
Absolutely. But of course these are the same death cult members who think keeping kids out of school will kill them. There's no accounting for freedumb in the USA.
prometheus
Level 7
July 17, 2020
3
I missed the part about school. Was that in the same article?
FFS, that looks very much like a 9mm if that's the gun used.
Here in Australia we have laws that state firmly, " ALL firearms MUST be kept LOCKED in a Child-Proof, Steel Safe, the Firearm/s MUST be have the firing mechanism/s removed and they and ANY ammunition MUST be stored completely separate from each other at ALL times and in steel safes were children, etc, cannot reach them with ease.
The parents, in my honest opinion, should be charged with willful Negligence, accessories to Murder by Negligence and Lack of Forethought and Security.
I have a 7.69mm German Mauser rifle here, locked away in a 3/4" thick Steel safe with a locking system that requires 2 separate combinations to open it, the ammunition is locked away separately elsewhere as is the Bolt, both in separate locations in the house.
What, in the name of All Fuck, is wrong with Americans and their endless desire to have, keep and carry guns?
Triphid
Level 9
July 17, 2020
3
Arrogance. All men know how to handle a gun without training, train a dog with no experience and drive like race car drivers.
@PondartIncbendog Shit, my Dad started training me with rifles, etc, from when I was about 5 years old, I did the same with my daughter as well.
By the time I was 10 years old I could hit a 5 cent piece dead-centre using ONLY open sights from a range of 100 yrds from the Prone, Kneeling anf Standing positions using his old B.S.A. .22 calibre bolt action rifle.
I'd get a hefty clip around the ear IF i ever forgot to take out the bolt and the magazine after having a few practice shots or just carrying it with the bolt closed and NOT having it pointed directly at the ground.
@Triphid I had gun safety in Boy Scouts, military and High School. I can't hit shit with a rifle. Too heavy, I'm just a paper shooter. But over and over we hear about NO training and NO experience and NO safety course.
@PondartIncbendog That, imo, IS sheer and Unadulterated Arrogance of the First Degree.
Yeah, definitely. Even if you don't care enough about your own kids life, they can't have access to something so dangerous to others.
Observer-Effect
Level 7
July 17, 2020
3
The child should be charged with murder! And as an adult! The parents should be charged with endangering the welfare of minors...
Cutiebeauty
Level 9
July 17, 2020
2
Minor children are treated differently in law because their brains are not sufficiently developed. It seems clear to me that the older boy did not intend to kill his younger brother. Only the adult is in a position to be held legally responsible, whether or not that's possible in that states horrible laws I don't know.
@BitFlipper the older child say he was mad and thats why he shot his brother... And minors can be tried as adults.. This case warrants it...
@Cutiebeauty that doesn't convince me that he knew it would result in his brother's death. Children have incomplete thoughts like that.
@BitFlipper that kid is thirteen.... He knows what guns do.. It's on television frequently...
@Cutiebeauty But no one really dies on tv. It is all just "play". As @BitFlipper said, the reason for juve laws is that kids brains are not fully developed. Just because kids are tried as adults, doesn't mean it is right.
@itsmedammit too often, excuses are the offered to let someone off for a horrible crime... Responsibility doesn't exist these days.. If you take a life, you go to counseling? Or we just wait for their brains to fully develop? Young children killing pets and other small animals are deemed psychopaths... These kids know what they're doing..
@Cutiebeauty So, is it ok for children to play with guns?
@itsmedammit no it isn't OK. Not at all...
@Cutiebeauty But they know what they are doing.
@itsmedammit they do... So we give them guns to kill.. That's what this kid did...he knew... Just like adult murderers know also.. We don't give guns to killers and let them go..
@Cutiebeauty What is the reason that it is not ok for kids to play with guns?
@itsmedammit guns aren't toys.. Neither are knives or poison, etc.. These things shouldn't be given to children to play with. Kids should be taught to respect these things not Play with them...
@Cutiebeauty "Kids should be taught to respect these things not Play with them..." Well, we agree on something. The point I am trying to make is that kids don't know better, unless they are taught.
@itsmedammit I guess we disagree at what age kids know better... At thirteen, that kid knows better or should know better unless he has a mental illness.. Gun violence is displayed on the news daily, and in the streets and on TV shows... T
His parents taught him that it's OK to have loaded weapons in an unlocked cabinet..
@Cutiebeauty That's not exactly it, but I don't want to go into a prolonged discussion here. I just wonder what this kid did to deserve such dumbass parents. Too bad kids can't choose.
I can tell that you were the exceptional 13 year old that took on the responsibilities forced on you, like an adult...
@TheMiddleWay I disagree.. People are individuals.. To say that all individuals in a particular group (in this case, thirteen year olds) be treated the same, leads to stereotypes, prejudice and discrimination... Each case must be judged on its specific circumstances.. Like I said earlier, we don't know if this child is mentally I'll...
@TheMiddleWay did you read the article? He is being charged as an adult.. That decision is already made. I just happen to agree with it.. Also, I actually think that any teenager who kills should be charged as adult.... Personal responsibility is disappearing in this country... There's excuses for everything...
@TheMiddleWay that's two different circumstances, at least I meant it be..all killers should be charged but each case should be judged on a case by case basis...
@TheMiddleWay charging and judging are two different things... Anyone can be charged... Anyone can judged. But just because someone is charged doesn't mean they will be judged.. The charges could be dropped...
@TheMiddleWay I think he's being charged as an adult because they it was first degree murder.. Aka intentional...
A point that got lost along the way is that, whether one is charged as an adult or a juvenile, there are consequences. Charging as a juvenile doe not mean that one gets away with a crime.
@TheMiddleWay ah.. Good find... I kinda figured it was tied to the seriousness of the case\ charge...
@TheMiddleWay The child is obviously in need of more counseling and if you can calmly walk back to the gun case after killing your little brother, that's not normal. The parents knew their son needed help and left a gun in a case unloaded. I really don't think the child is criminal culpable.
Yes, the parents should be held responsible
TeresaWyckoff
Level 5
July 17, 2020
2
Parents should be charged. The kid should not be charged as an adult. Did he even understand what a real gun was?
itsmedammit
Level 8
July 17, 2020
2
There used to be laws that would fine or even imprison parents or family for leaving their guns unprotected. Those have been removed and it is now called "tragic accidents." These changes were pushed by the NRA, etc. I have argued for years about the loss of responsibility; I've said let's go back to 60's gun laws - yes, easier to get a legal gun, but if said gun is used improperly, you WILL be punished. Can't sell that idea, and, hey, that IS a compromise.
Beowulfsfriend
Level 9
July 17, 2020
2
Wow this is a tough one! I think the parents need to be held accountable. I think it was their responsibility to teach their children about the gun they had and to also keep it in a safe place. As for the boy, geez, I don't know what to say. Okay, okay, I say not to charge the boy as an adult. I think 13 year olds just don't know a lot. Then again there's the TV, violence, and killing video games!! I think I better stop.
gracielufreebush
Level 4
July 21, 2020
1
It is. It is a question that deserves thought. I don't know the answer.
The child also didn't seem remorseful after blowing his brothers head off. But I do think, he has serious problems that the parents were aware of and still had a weapon available?
@PondartIncbendog Geez, I guess I should have read the article. Still it's a difficult one.
The parents and the boy should be charged, for reckless parenting, never the less were did the young boy got the gun from?
Victoria100
Level 4
July 18, 2020
1
Alright, 13 year old boy wants to act rough and tough, put him in prison. Omfg! Also the father is an idiot for not keeping those guns in a place where they cannot reach them. He should be charged with accessory to murder. He essentially provided the weapon for that child as the kid stated that they handled guns regularly. That poor brother did not deserve that at all! Irresponsible people should NOT own guns, especially if they have children. Wow!
CatiValti23
Level 6
July 18, 2020
1
The parents were criminally negligent; however, the 13-year-old should definitely be charged with murder. This wasn't an accident. He got the gun and shot his brother in the head for no other reason than his little brother told him "no".
PhoebeCat
Level 7
July 18, 2020
1
@SeaGreenEyez No?,,,,,,,,,,,,Actually the parents should be charged with murder and the child charged with negligence. And not as an adult. Children don't make good decisions, that's why they can't buy guns. The availability of the weapon is the problem. Lots of kids are screwed up. When there is a weapon available, that is not just a problem anymore. That is what turns it into a tragedy.
@SeaGreenEyez I agree. The parents are culpable. The child need counseling but shouldn't be charged. If proper storage was used, this would have all not happened.
I would think so.
Gatovicolo
Level 8
July 17, 2020
1
The parent will not be charged for as long as the National Rifle Association continues its stranglehold on Congress.
yes. not necessarily with murder, but with whatever legally describes being so damned careless with a dangerous weapon (and with the supervision of his kids) that he allowed the invevitable to happen. i don't know if that's accessory or not. i am not a lawyer, a cop or anyone more sophisticated than a frequent watcher of law and order. but yeah, the parents, particularly the father, are responsible to an extent and should be charged in some manner. meanwhile, there is no way the teen didn't know exactly what he was doing and what the results of shooting someone in the head is. being charged as an adult is appropriate in this case. note: i wonder how protected the father feels now?
g
genessa
Level 8
July 17, 2020
1
What a sorry state of affairs. Two loaded guns in an unlocked drawer in a gun-mad nation, with children easily able to access them, and quite probably never told about the danger guns pose.
Yes. The parents are also guilty of negligence. I suspect they are also in deep anguish now, and regretting their laxity.
Petter
Level 9
July 17, 2020
1
All he had to do was get a trigger lock. They even have them with rings that you can wear that unlocks them. Simple. But he probably won't wear a mask either.
Translation: the younger boy was ultimately killed by his parents' stupidity, a form reverse Darwin award.
Ok. I actually have kids. It would depend. Haven't read the article so maybe it gives more information, but just given the headline, it would depend.
towkneed
Level 7
July 17, 2020
1
Read it?
Shit mate, I was taught over and over and over again about firearms from an Expert Marksman, my father who had countless Prizes and Awards for his Marksmanship.
One of his sayings rings true to me every moment of my life, " Guns do NOT kill people by themselves, People with guns KILL people."
And another was, " Never ever treat ANY firearm as being unloaded EVER and DO NOT play with one either, they ARE not toys."
@Triphid This guy did everything wrong. Including killing his kid. I place this squarely on the parents. No thirteen year old should be able to reach a loaded 9mm. And the kid was unstable anyway.
@Triphid And never point. The biggest one. I had people sweep me with their guns. Pisses me off. I was in a gun shop last week and the clerk pointed one on the counter at me. I turned it toward her. I know it was unloaded but that's my extra safety margin.
@PondartIncbendog Oh YEAH NEVER EVER point a gun at ANYONE.
As my Dad taught me, so I taught my daughter, only thing is, she turned out be an even better shot than I was.
She actually, at the age of about 8 or 9, managed,what I still call the 'Impossible shot", A Killing Head-shot at a Kangaroo, approx. 580 metres away with my .22 calibre Magnun rifle.
We measured out the distance by using the Trip-Meter in my Toyota 4wd and by going directly across the scrub in a straight line.
She hit the 'roo right between its 2 eyes, straight up along its muzzle and all she said to me was, "I told you I could do it."
I see the parent as being a grade 1 prat, so it comes as no surprise to me that he ended killing his younger son by proxy of his older son.
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