@Gwendolyn2018 But you won't address my larger point? That we're possibly victims of an oppressed, suppressed and repressed culture rooted in Calvinistic thinking? According to which the ethos is, sex is bad, cardinal desire is sinful, even evil in some contexts (extramarital, gay, etc.)? And I'm talking about all of it, including the catcalls.
European culture is much more secular.

@Storm1752 When you compliment Euro women what exactly are you saying ? eg Do you say "you have the most beautiful breasts, I would love a taste of those luscious melons?" Or are you saying "what a lovely dress, it suits you perfectly".

@MsDemeanour More like the latter...but of course not anything creepy, and not for some ulterior motive, like 'omg if I say something suggestive I might be able to get in her pants.' By the way, I also compliment men, knowing there are some things you can say other things you can't. And I'm not trying to get in THEIR pants. Yes, there's distinctions to be made between what is an 'appropriate' compliment and what is a blatantly sexist remark (which isn't really a compliment at all) but C'mon! Now we have to be afraid to say nice things to people? I'm not talking about the catcalls and the obviously stupid and hostile-things-disguised-as-compliments some creep spews as a passive-agressive slur, but just simple nice things. If these women put so much time and effort into their appearance, you'd think they'd want all that hard work rewarded and celebrated. Again, I see the distinctions being made here. I don't ogle, I don't make dumb remarks, in fact I don't normallycompliment women on their looks because they'll almost certainly regard it as a come-on. All of this is regrettable. As usual, it's the creeps and criminals amoung us who set the pace.

Common sense.
Conversely, if you DO want to be ogled (which can be a pleasurable ego trip) that's also your right.

@Storm1752 Common bs is what it was. The OP made no mention of that kind of dress. Men have the sole capacity to control their own behavior so this issue is no no way a "combined responsibility".

Why do you say it's "disgusting?"
In that case, every birth is disgusting because the husband at some point ogled the wife.

@Storm1752 Because it’s unwelcome, it’s invasive, and per the responses it’s the fault of women for being attractive. At least get to know someone first! Women want sex too, but not when they’re jogging, or shopping, or reading a damned book, especially if they don’t know you.
You go right to a committed relationship as an example what precisely is your malfunction?
Jesus F Christ

Rape is a crime of control not passion. What you say is true though, we had a case here recently where a 90 year old woman who was burgled was also raped...that had nothing to do with sexual attractiveness or passion...it was pure rage and contempt for women of any age or looks.

I would have loved to be ogled, it would have been a great experience I never had the chance to experience!

@Merseyman1 really? I think you’re confusing being ogled with someone finding you attractive. Ogling is disrespectful and completely unwanted.

When women object to an unknown man grabbing their breast or crotch, is your first thought you wish someone would grab yours?

@jorj, @Merseyman1 So you two say.

@Marcie1974 so for you looking is grabbing? We're talking different languajes here.

@Merseyman1 ok, I’ll put it this way. How would it make you feel if in a work environment a few women are ogling you and start talking amongst themselves. Maybe at first they’re saying you’re hot, but then one says “yeah but you can tell he has a little dick.” They all laugh and speculate as to whether you know how to use it...more laughter. Then another says you’re older so your balls probably hang halfway to your knees...gravity is not a friend to the male anatomy...uproarious laughter ensues.

Can you see the difference between being subtly looked at appreciatively and ogling/harassment?

@Merseyman1 no, looking and grabbing are not the same. But neither are ogling and looking

@Marcie1974 Do you think I'd care about that? I'd just laugh and tell a couple of jokes back. I'd be friends with everyone. Sorry

@Marcie1974 I understand what you say, but I just don't feel like you do. Dead end...

@Merseyman1 gotcha, so you’re just deliberately refusing to understand what it’s like to be sexually objectified and how that might make people uncomfortable

Dead end...

@Marcie1974 At 71, he’s unable to change.

@yvilletom that’s sad, never too old to learn

They're not being consciously 'objectified;' it's a physical response to stimuli. It is not a learned behaviour it's INSTINCT.

@Storm1752 Those "physical responses" can (and should) be controlled so yes, it is conscious objectification. And it IS learned behavior, not instinct, because not all men do it.

@LovinLarge No it is not objectification, but we'll just have to disagree.

@Storm1752 You said ogling is not objectification because it is a physical response to a stimuli. This could only be true if men could not control their eyes. We can disagree but you'll still be wrong.

@Gwendolyn2018 so you've been told you're sexy and you choose not to believe it? That's quite a privilege. Most of us never receive compliments like that. I never have.

Thanks for not helping in the least.

@Willow_Wisp I knew I'd get some kind of negative response.
Why do you think there are 'sexual harassment' headlines every single day?

@Storm1752 Because of people like you, of course.

I'm interested in your response because I'm reminded of a comment made by my 21yr old son said to me the other day..... He says 'girls without make up look like men". I didn't know what he meant at first but he said without makeup, their skin is flawed like males, their eyes and lashes are just as varied as men's and lips too look much the same. He has been accustomed to girls wearing makeup all through high school and has no sisters. Anyway it gave me a good laugh. Most young people look lovely anyway and don't need make up.

Oh get a grip, why should women make themselves look as dowdy as possible, and go around looking ungroomed, just because you feel inadequate around them! This illustrates the problem perfectly....we women should be able to dress and present ourselves in whatever way we feel comfortable when we go to work. I don’t wear make up and get my hair cut in a fashionable style, or wear fashionable clothes to attract men, I do it because it makes me feel good and to reflect my personality. I don’t believe that women should wear provocative clothing or anything either too short or too low-necked unless they work as a hostess in the hospitality industry, but otherwise it should be our choice what we wear to work. Of course some employers provide a uniform, which eliminates this dilemma of what to wear completely.

@Willow_Wisp I've never "sexually harassed" anyone, anywhere. Are you kidding? I hardly ever even talk to women, about anything, at any time.

You say “I cannot talk to them as I would a normal human being.”

Are women you find attractive not human beings?!?! And it’s their fault because they’re attractive?

I suggest you seek a therapist. Firstly it sounds like you have extremely low self esteem (which I understand and also suffer from) and secondly, it sounds like you’re blaming women for your lack of a sense of self worth.

@Storm1752 Your being unable to talk to women who “dress provocatively” as you would talk to “a normal human being” is a problem only you can remedy. Do give it a try.

@Marcie1974 That's ridiculous. I was SAYING women with makeup and other enhancements (clothes, jewelry, shaved smooth as butter), every blemish magically removed (thanks to our multi-million dollar beauty industry), are deliberately INTIMIDATING, and many men if they're honest will agree. They make themselves unnaturally , unapproachably perfect. They do this, and then complain when they're 'ogled.' No wonder men are confused!
And they're rebuffed if they ever DO make a move. Some men think, perhaps understandably, women do this to catch the right (big) fish; that is, the one with the most money, power, 'alpha status,' and so on. All others need not apply.
And the weird thing is, it's not just 'alpha women' who potentially feel that way. No matter where one woman falls in the food chain, she always seems to want more than what she can get, and a lot of men feel they are perpetually on trial, having to prove themselves based on some invisible yardstick. And if someone better comes along, a lot of women do not hesitate to 'trade up' for a sleeker, fancier model. I should know, it happened to me more than once (engineer, doctor, college professor).
What I'm SAYING is, men have lots of room to complain, too.
And btw, thank you for suggesting therapy. I HAVE taken advantage of 'professional listeners' in the past, and derived some benefit.

@Gwendolyn2018 How do YOU know?

@Gwendolyn2018, @yvilletom Oh thank you Romeo.

@Gwendolyn2018, @yvilletom, @Marionville I'm just trying to point out certain factors, from my point of view. Of COURSE women are free to present themselves as they see fit.

@Storm1752 Good...were on the same page then.

@jorj What's Incel?

@jorj I asked you.
Hey, checked it out. 'Involuntarily Celibate.' Clever. Yeah, I've been 'incel' at times in my life, this being one such time. Actually I DO have an 84-year-old female friend who would LIKE to have sex with me, but 1) she's too old, 2) I'm impotent with her. So I guess she doesn't count. But I noted some of the more unsavory traits of SOME Incels, definitely not me.
No, I just speak my mind on subjects that interest me without considering the negative blowback some of them may inspire. This is because I respect the people on this site for being sophisticated and open-minded, and because I believe lies--even if well-intentioned--inevitably and invariably lead to dead ends.
Thanks for the new word.

@Storm1752 wow, you really think negatively about women.

@Marcie1974 No I don't. If it sounded like a generalization, I was only speaking of certain members of both sexes based on some of my experiences. It DOES seem like a stereotype, so let me assure you though stereotypes serve a purpose, and are such for a reason, they don't include EVERYBODY. Just like the stereotype all men seek out the most beautiful woman available given his socio-economic status, and 'trade up' as his circumstances improve, or down as they deteriorate, as the case may be.
I know you've had experience with the horrific nightmare known as 'dating sites,' as have I, where this process is laid bare in it's most bald and unappealing form.
So it's not to insult women I bring this up. I've had several long-term, very meaningful relationships, and hold a special place in my heart for them. I bring it up to point out it's a two-way street. Yes, many men prefer beautiful women. Yes, many women prefer rich men. Men ogle beautiful women. Women 'ogle' rich men.
It's a stereotype. Not the WHOLE story, of course, but it does work both ways in the complaint department.

@Storm1752

Re “2) I'm impotent with her.” A man with a tongue is not impotent with older women. Ask them.

@yvilletom I mentioned two factors.

@Gwendolyn2018 You said women don't want to talk to me. How do you know? I was just reacting childishly to your unfriendly comment.
"Ask older women what?" Am I an older woman? Do I know the majority of older women on the planet?
Well, I'm an 'older man' so I know some older women. The majority? No.
I've nothing specific to ask those 'older women' I know.
I also don't know why you think you know I'm some kind of creep. Could you explain? I'm just pecking away on my phone, tablet, or laptop. I'm just throwing my half-baked opinions out there, like everybody else. Excuse me if I've offended you in some way.

@Gwendolyn2018 I didn't say that about the tongue. You have me mistaken for yvilletom.

@Gwendolyn2018 That's not to say:

1. I don't adore cunninglus, perhaps more than intercourse,
2. Cunninglus cannot be a superior form of lovemaking.

@Gwendolyn2018 Okay. In closing, I just for the first time read through all the posts below mine and was stunned
Unbelievable the amount of bitterness and scorn. I have nothing further to say. How we'll continue to carry on rational discussions on the issue is beyond me.
My 84-year-old (female) friend was brought up in a different time and she respects men. She respects ME.
It strikes me you are lashing out bitterly against men, for the most part, who do not inhabit this site, and yet do WE have the benefit of the doubt? Any room for creative thinking?
No. We're men, so we're guilty.
I was brought up in a female-dominant houehold, in a small town also dominated by the women. I always thought the men went to work and the women stayed home because the women wanted it that way. THEY had it made. It was the MEN who had the tough lives!
So excuse me if I seem naive; even in my adult lives I've never witnessed it even heard about the kind of boorish behaviour you're taliking about, so I'm as a result talking about something completely different.

@Gwendolyn2018 You seem so cranky. Can you dial it down and tell me your issues?

@Gwendolyn2018 Got it. I think I understand your anger. A woman’s treating me like a bank account used to anger me. It no longer does so because I don’t let a woman, or a man, do it. I may have reading comprehension issues but that’s not one of them.

I read your bio, many of your posts, and haven’t used the word cranky for decades. I’m sure many women use #45 as a bank account.

As for cranky questions. Oh, what the hell?

@Gwendolyn2018 You know, what you are describing falls outside my experience in my 67 years. Why do you insist on throwing in front of me the red meat of, "...grow some self esteem...?" Why? So I can feel empowered to behave like these creeps you so despise? What makes you think I don't 'esteem' myself?
All I'm saying is (again), but in a slightly different way, I'm approaching the subject from MY point of view, which is the only way I can. I don't try to fit it into some predetermined mold. I'm actually and truly taken aback by what you're describing. It doesn't fit into any experience of mine. Does that make me naive? If so, I've learned something.
But I've also read somewhere naivete can be defined as 'unaffected innocence.' I guess it's no longer unaffected and no longer innocence at some point.
Still, I'll hold onto the ideal while at the same time acknowledging the ideal remains distant; now I'm finding out more distant than I supposed.

So you want women to stop attempting to make themselves more attractive just to relieve your own anxiety? That's a bit selfish. Why should they have to change their ways to make up for your inadequacies?

I actually agree with you though. I also wish women wouldn't shave and wear makeup so much. But it's because I find them much more attractive when they don't not because I'm intimidated when they are beautiful.

Your comment about them not being normal beings was hilarious. I really did LOL on that one.

@RoboGraham I just say what I say. If YOU think that makes me appear weak, so be it. I think a lot of people bite their tongues for that very reason. Me, I don't care, pure and simple. I think if more people would show their vulnerabilities, instead of putting up false fronts, a lot more REAL communication would occur. Instead, we talk in riddles.
Why bother to come on a site like this if all you're going to do is posture? It seems a lot of people stake their ground and then defend it like it's the Alamo, and the other person is wrong. I try not to do that and I don't think it accomplishes anything. I'm here to not only put in my two cents, but also to LISTEN and learn. I wish everybody had that attitude. To at least TRY to listen. When it comes to religion and politics, that's very often NOT the case.

@Storm1752

I'm all for people being blunt and saying what they mean. I respect that. I don't think that makes you weak at all.

@RoboGrahamI have no personal ideology, as a true agnostic, so I don't try to be consistent. My opinions change sometimes moment to moment.
That said, you're the one who thinks I want women to dress down so as to cover up my inadequacies. I didn't say that, you did. I don't agree with that assessment. Go back and read what I actually said, and get back to me.
Last time I checked, women could care less what I think anyway

I dunno about 'dressing for other women'. For me, and I suggest many others, it is about feeling good about myself. Sometimes putting on the makeup is an armour. It gives me a boost of confidence if I need to go in to battle eg job interview. BTW I'm glad you haven't hit any women but you know some people manage to go their entire lives without hitting ANYONE!

@MsDemeanour Never had the pleasure of putting makeup or wearing an armor.

@GipsyOfNewSpain It's not too late to give it a while Gypsyman!

@MsDemeanour You are not convincing.

@VeronikaAnnJ No no. sorry I didn't mean it that way. Yes we ARE still having the conversation and I'm outraged that it is still a problem. I'm 56. I have seen many improvements but again and again I see or hear about experiences like yours and I'm appalled it is still happening and I'm appalled by responses that suggest that what you wore makes the men's response your fault.

@VeronikaAnnJ That's because America has a broomstick up its ass where sex/sexuality is concerned. You can see endless re-enactments of murder on TV but the nation loses its shit if we get one blurry second of Janet Jackson's tit.

That happened quite a while back but the same thing would still happen today. You can still see a man or woman get murdered in primetime but you still can't see a boob without all hell breaking free.

It's so stupid.

@VeronikaAnnJ It is embarrassing. This rampant Puritan ethic all comes back to how anal America is because of its religious hang-ups. There's no making sense of it because it's just dumb.

@VeronikaAnnJ It's all due to the influence of religion. Personally, I have no religion so I have no religious hang-ups so I couldn't care less who's naked or why. Being nude isn't sexual in and of itself but that's how it's treated. A woman doing her laundry naked isn't sexual. It's a little weird but it's not sexual.

@Sgt_Spanky How many of us grew up hearing the 'gross' sounds of our parents making love? As teens we buried our heads under the pillow to block out the sounds of the ridiculousness of our parents having sex ....... at the 'OLD age of 45!. Weren't they passed it by then??

I don't think the sound of my parents gave me any lasting trauma. I grin now and am glad they had a good relationship. It will be those who grew up in domestic violence where fear and abuse was normal that are likely to feel the effects of PTSD.

Yeah, but when there are so many beautiful places to walk, like to the bottom of the Grand Canyon (which I did twice and paddled down the River once). do you want to go to prison?

More seriously, I used to resent being a provider object and it didn’t stop. Then one day while I was seeing a shrink about a different anger issue, I realized that my father’s being a provider had taught me to see myself as one. I mentioned it and his response told me I’d done something important. A lot changed, for the better.

@yvilletom

Don't you recognize tongue-in-cheek remarks? Calm down.

Twice I backpacked to the bottom of Grand Canyon, slept in the tent, and hiked out the next day.

Too crowded! Even in the 1970s, I worried about overloaded burros pushing me off the cliff on one side of the narrow trail, as they squeezed by.

@yvilletom

It's easy to miss humor with text and typing. You can't see the twinkle in my eye.

@LiterateHiker Agree. (twinkle)

@LiterateHiker

I’m calm but I remember the wife who severed her husband’s dick (ouch!!!) and the wife who sat fire to the bed with her husband in it (ouch also).

I saw burros go for grass on the trail’s edge and if I’d been on them would have been terrified.

Nice pics. On the float trip, with other Sierra Club activists, I saw a few goats. Camped at the (Redwall?) Cavern, one of the oarsmen late at night played his panpipes. I have no words to describe it.

@VeronikaAnnJ

Thank you. I feel lucky to live in North Central Washington.

@VeronikaAnnJ Of course not. He's one of the low class individuals who had no respect.

@Gwendolyn2018 I agree.

All we get to do is look. We can't even look now?

Are you being ironic?

@MsDemeanour Not this time . I am in favour of school uniforms and most situations have a dress code of some sort'
I had to wear a suit and tie to office meetings and sit perspiring in the summer, no air conditioning here while any women at the meeting were dressed in light summer frocks.

@VeronikaAnnJ An office environment. Same thing. So some leggings are thicker than others. Maybe you should post a photo so that we can all judge if it appears to be suitable attire

@VeronikaAnnJ
I don't have to understand women's fashion. Nobody has to understand men's or women's fashion at work. I am interested in what you do, write, speak, your skills, professionalism. Men don't have time for ogling and 'many men' accusations.

@VeronikaAnnJ

@Moravian @St-Sinner, you men are missing the entire point since you both lack good reading comprehension skills.

Why did you wear leggings at work? You don't understand how the world works but are going on randomly blaming men on a public platform?

How do they concentrate? Seriously? Boys can't think unless their dicks are flaccid? Really?
Are girls and women really supposed to wear burkas so the poor distractable dickwalkers can get through a day?

@heymoe2001
In this example, just don't wear leggings especially when you are part of human resources that monitors the rules and enforcement in an organization. There are plenty of women who behave inappropriately, men are not only to blame. I have said in my comments that I have not seen a single women dressing inappropriately or heard derogatory behavior, comments from men in my career. I am not saying it does not happen in the world but the topic here is not what men or women do at large.

@St-Sinner , bullshit. Men are responsible for their own behavior.

@heymoe2001
Just as women are.

@St-Sinner One of my sons, age 21, wears tight jeans. He think's they're sexy and I'm sure some young women enjoy a sly peek at his er.....well endowed package,cute butt, broad shoulders and handsome face (his words). The difference is they aren't ogling him, they are discrete.
At the same time, he doesn't like one night stands because he knows what it feels like to feel like a piece of meat after a girl confessed she's in a committed relationship and doesn't want to see him again. I recall at 18, he was propositioned by his mate's mother. I wanted to tear her eyes out for being a predator.

People should be used to leggings now. so comfy. I think men can admire beautiful eyes, or a cute bum discretely without the woman even knowing about it and feeling uncomfortable about it, and without it affecting the man's work. Hell I'm a straight woman and I can still admire a beautiful young face and body. It doesn't have to be sexual. It becomes sexual when one deliberates ogle suggestively. They know darn well their behaviour is inappropriate.

@Gwendolyn2018 It appears to have changed markedly in silicon valley with very casual dress now the norm but in most business environments more formal attire is still the norm, certainly in the UK.
For example I looked at several properties recently with a view to purchase and the representatives of the estate agents,all women of varying ages were without exception dressed in smart business suits. I would have been very surprised if they had turned up dressed as if they were on the way to the gym.

@Gwendolyn2018 You have my sympathy but bras are functional and ties are purely decorative.
The UK business establishment tends to be a bit staid and conservative so it may be some time for it to change although I watched a BBC quiz show this evening where both of the presenters were wearing open necked shirts. Go back to the early days of steam radio and the newsreaders were required to wear dinner jackets.
I'm sure it is much more relaxed in Australia.
A few years ago during a heatwave I visited an office in town to find everyone wearing shorts. Secretaries, juniors, managers, everyone. One of the managers was a guy from Australia so I assume that he talked the office in to this sensible dress code.

@Gwendolyn2018 Ha ha So long as you remember that when the postman knocks at the door

@Gwendolyn2018 Are you serious ?

@Gwendolyn2018 Can you make that post about bras? I hate the dratted things. hate hate hate them. In winter I can sometimes get away without one if I have a coat but I live in a tropical climate so the times are rare. My best discovery was pasties! I could paste these on my 'obscene' nipples and go to the shops. What do I care if my tits hang to my knees? I've breast fed 4 sons, I'm 56 and gravity takes its toll but I am socially pressured to wear bras and frankly I'm pissed off.

@Gwendolyn2018 Well I might make a poll about bras but I would like to know how women feel about them. It is the modern day corset if you ask me!

Attractive, revealing or stupid.. any of these. Men also look at elegant women but adoringly.

@VeronikaAnnJ And I'm not a young female, and I've never been a young female, so I don't know anything about young females fashion. In fact, I don't know anything about mens fashion. I just don't know...........about fashion........I wear stretch jeans and they come up to my chin so I don't have to wear a shirt. I just don't know............I used to think I knew,,,,,,but I'm sure I don't now.........

She wasn't suggesting anything. She was just saying that her boss is a ballbag.

@barjoe

What does this opening sentence suggest?

”I hate how some people in our society still blame women for being sexually harassed, ogled at, cat-called, etc., just because of how she’s dressed."

This is a plain, irresponsible generalization. Of course there are women out there who do that and these comments are perfectly deserved.

@VeronikaAnnJ

I don't have to know you at all. Your words describe well your lack of choice of words, inability to articulate your point, and blatant generalization of men. You have to grow up. It seems like you have not met a good father, a good brother, a good boss, a good man leader, a good son and a good friend or a boyfriend, else you would measure your words. What do you know about men? You know nothing beyond that they ogle? Men have a lot more important things to do than looking at your damn skirt.

I am not rude. You just can't handle the truth about you.

Go out there and hang out with your flock.

@VeronikaAnnJ
Stay on your post and defend it. Don't run. At least show that respect for yourself. But I know you cannot defend because I will explain your stupidity to start generalizing men. You don't understand an iota of men beyond dating and oggling at you. Men are as not cheap as you think. Try to get one, tell your opinion about men and you will know.

@St-Sinner She said some people. How's "some people" generalizating?

@barjoe
I would like to hear what good men looked like to her. Maybe she could say, 'I admit that there are lousy cheap women out there but'.... I would understand that too. Bitching about men just by saying 'some men' is not enough to me. Include what good men she has met with their good acts. Present a blanced view. Just qualifying a long post with two words does not make it balanced. I will not accept a long derogatory description by just qualifying with 'some men'. There are garbage men and there are garbage women. And everybody knows that.

I have heard women saying on this platform about how bad men are. Really? I wonder where did all good men go?... who run the world, build the world, fight for us and die, the good fathers, brothers, sons, friends and so on. How come they just seem to get a share of bad men? I have not heard much about wonderful men they have met or not met. Why is that?

@St-Sinner Yeah but would the boss call a guy into the office to say his appearance was distracting to the horny girls in the office?

@barjoe
Like I said there are lousy men and there are lousy women in this world. Any women is not horny unless she is suggestive. I will not notice women horny unless she is different than other women in terms of horny. Of course women are attractive and that is adorable. I have seen a lot of elegant, well dressed, attractive but non-suggestive women. Nobody said anything to them. Yes, I am saying that thoughtfully. I have worked across 3 different lands with from top to tiny businesses in all positions in different industries and cultures for over 50 years and have been just impressed with the goodness, competency, merits, responsibility, skills of men. Some of them have been inspiring. Women have been as well. I just wonder why women like her don't meet them that at least makes them responsible to weigh their words before starting make a broad post this way.

If one is describing one's bad experience, one must be sure to qualify.. "it is only my own experience. This is by no means an intention to generalize and paint all men or women with a broad brush." I would call that a balanced and responsible statement.

I have been around. I know a rat when I smell one.

@St-Sinner She has to put up a disclaimer when she's sharing an experience she had at her job?

@barjoe
The layout is unacceptable to me. Maybe it is to you.

@St-Sinner I'm not a feminist guy. I'm not that interested in the subject of this article but she is. She read it and relayed it to her experience. I was commenting I what happened to her at work. I empathized with Veronica. I don't endorse her website but I'm not threatened by it either. Truly, I don't give two shits either way.

@barjoe
Surprisingly I am a feminist but this is taking advantage of goodness of men in the big picture. I will not stand for immature, shallow broad brushing of men or women.

@St-Sinner Congratulations

@VeronikaAnnJ
Again cheap generalization. Is that only as high you can jump?

I cannot ignore your stulidity against men.

I am not asking you to explain anything to me. I am asking you to not run and instead stand here and defend your immature, nonsensical post on a public platform. When you spill your stupidity out there, there are people noticing your non sense. If you know what you meant and think it makes sense, defend it. Don't run. This is not your Daddy's house to say anything and run. We are adults here.

@VeronikaAnnJ There really, needs to be a "thumbs down" or perhaps even a "puking" or a "fuck you" reaction available given the quality of some of these comments.

@LovinLarge It’s useful, the bold brash bigmouth reveals to me the only healthy reaction I can have for a misogynistic troll, blockage. There’s no requirement to endure stupid people that’s how we got an idiot in the White House. There’s not one redeeming aspect to this troll St-Sinner can say anything it wants, because after I block it it’ll be like God imperceptible and mostly imaginary.

@VeronikaAnnJ
I assure you I had magnificent men and women in life since childhood, never had bad experiences with people like you seem to keep having and that is why I don't blast men or women at large like you do. If I have a bad experience, I think first about what I did and not go around blaming people like you do.

Yes, I have issues about your views of men, I don't have issues about women. Know the difference and begin thinking about it. You have inflated ideas about yourself. You can ignore men, ignore the truth, bury your head in the sand but that will not change how you think today..

@VeronikaAnnJ

I am measuring your words. I don't have to make any assumptions. You seem to have knack for making generalizations.

@VeronikaAnnJ There you go again, generalizing men. I would never ogle at women and certainly not at any like you. Let us know if you ever get to meet good men. Probably you won't notice because your mind is into who is looking at you, ogling at you and not into better things if life

@VeronikaAnnJ
I usually don't block people. I stay and defend myself. Know the difference.

@VeronikaAnnJ RoboGraham is about Bernie discussions. I don't see men, women and ogling in everything.

@VeronikaAnnJ
I am not you. I did not have bad experiences and I have not gone around blaming people at large. I recommend you begin working on yourself.

@VeronikaAnnJ
There you go again. You have not understood anything about my comments from the start. There is no "many men". You are not writing an essay here. You were writing about your personal experience and should have qualified it with a caveat that this was not about 'many men'.

I don't objectify women. I admire that they are sexy, attractive but never make it unwelcome. I would walk up to a woman and tell her what liked about her. I am not 'many men.'

@VeronikaAnnJ

"Post are about objectifying women."

Under specific categories here like in ;Just For Laughs; or other special purpose groups? I was talking about in real life. Do you know the difference?

@VeronikaAnnJ
"Nothing to undestand"

Not surprising to me.

@VeronikaAnnJ

"I wouldnt want you staring..."

But how will you begin noticing good men out there and take your head out of "many men" are ogling at you?

@VeronikaAnnJ

Baggy pants.... Why did you wear legging at work? Who wears leggings at work? And you blame men?

I don't know what kind of men you meet. Often the type of men you meet depends in the place, environment, people pool depending on your abilities, skills and many other factors.

The men and women I have work with, worked with are respectable, respectful, well behaving people. Not yet in my career I have seen ot heard ogling experiences at women. Not once.

I have heard about cat calling in construction. I have heard about groping in dark alleys and heard about rapes at drug parties but never seen, heard in my life at work or in personal life.

@VeronikaAnnJ
Again. It is not about being better. I am just not you. I am different. I have looked at myself and that is why I do not meet men at work who ogle at women. The men I have met are respectful about women. I choose workplaces carefully so I do not come across these experiences.

This is passed on to children by parents and mentors before they are launched in the world. It is important:

1. There are bad men, bad women, bad things like drugs, crimes and many ugly things in this world. There are many sides of life, people and places. Some are beautiful while some are not. We all have to make choices about where we should fit in. And we must work hard early to fit into the good world.
2. Upgrade yourself so you stay away from the bad sides with education, skills, abilities. Success is often about the choices we have. You must have a choice about not to choose something.

@VeronikaAnnJ

"I wore baggy pants to prove to myself "

Really? A woman has to wear baggy pants to prove herself? Aren't there better ways to prove?

@VeronikaAnnJ
You said... "You are different than me, a big deal."

I didn't say I am not better than you. I just don't think shallow like you do. I don't wear shorts showing my ass crack at work.

@VeronikaAnnJ To be honest. I just skimmed through your post. Didn't realized the boss was female.which means she was jealous of the attention from the clients. You might have noticed early in this never ending thread I refer to your boss as "ballbag" insult to a guy. Lol.

@VeronikaAnnJ

You said.. "you are living in a bubble. There are SO MANY cases of inappropriate behaviors."

1. I am not living in a bubble. I never said there are no bad men in the world. I was discussing how you laid your experience badly. You seem to have made bad choices but you did not make a mention.
2. You have flawed thinking. You don't wear leggings at work. That is not cute. You also don't go out and get baggy points to prove yourself at work. That is as un-grown up thing I have ever heard.
3. You said many men are not taught boundaries? Do you know sexual discrimination is mandatory to men and women at work. Maybe not at places you worked at? Do you also know women look at men? Maybe fewer but did you mention it?

@VeronikaAnnJ

You said... "I’m starting to get bored. Have a good day!"

Don't run.

@VeronikaAnnJ
There is a time at some point to understand what you did, ponder over it and see why you rushed a judgement that men do these things. The time to continue defending stupidity is limited.

@VeronikaAnnJ
You said.. "I can prove things any way I want..."

That is where the problem is. Don't whine about men laughing at you this time. Thee may not be ogling.

@VeronikaAnnJ

"YES!!! There have been MANY cases of inappropriate behaviors in the work place.."

Yes but that does not give you the right to start blaming men at large. It is your experience and describe it responsibly. We are not discussing the social issue of what men and women at work. That is a larger issue. It is not the topic here. The topic is how badly you handled it.

@VeronikaAnnJ
Why? You made a stupid comment and I am pointing out how wrong you were. How is that trolling? Why can you not explain if that was not stupid? You made derogatory remarks about men. I am a man. I am not going to accept your broad brushing of men. I have pointed out mistakes you made. But instead of admitting what you did wrong, you are still blaming men?

@jorj
This is accurate. Women who have good experiences with men don't advertise as often nor do men. I have not understood why women come here and describe their dating stories. Isn't personal? I haven't seen men doing it nearly as much.

@jorj

I would have liked to agree with you but often BS must be countered. It may not stop it but may deter others thinking about taking this wide range liberty. People who post them think it is cute and hope others will sympathize but I don't find it cute with grown ups at all. If you look closely in their posts, you will see writing and personal shortcomings but they go on blaming the world instead.

A peculiar thing I have found is some women want equality but also special sympathy, support and treatment at the same time. They want the same rights not want to weight-lift the same responsibilities. Women who understand where we are in history, society and what their best options are make the most in life are smart. They continue and succeed without whining on public platforms for sympathy.

I avoid blocking anyone, instead I like to discuss and lay out my point as well as I can but I don't like to let people get away with BS. If people block me, it is on them.

@VeronikaAnnJ
First I thought your head was not on your shoulders but now you are convincing me that it is up your ass and men gave you too much respect by oggling you.

@VeronikaAnnJ It is evident that you have had some traumatic experiences growing up. I was trying to expect you to be normal but now it beyond anyone's hands here. You need serious help and I hope men don't look at you any more. They rather look at a trash can and enjoy it better.

@jorj
Stand your ground if you believe you are right.

@VeronikaAnnJ
Jorj us trying remind you of your dress code you dumbo.

Read right.... "understandable, that's why I just offer a little bit of advice like follow the dress code and tell the boss to deal with the men. If asked ill give my whole breakdown but....."

@VeronikaAnnJ
I pointed out how wrong you were. You still don't get it.

Again, Jorj is reminding you about a proper dress code at work and about talking to you boss. You did not do either and are still defending your holier-than-thou thinking. (and people have suggested in comments here not to advertise your stupidity on a public platform.)