@Allamanda
And what is that?

Isn't there more to it than that though?

The "About Us" page of this website says "We hope to be able to provide a safe pace for people...". Now it comes out that he has been using this website to interact with and analyze the behavior of our membership for the purpose of disclosing it on his conservative website.

I have asked him if he has interacted with our membership under a different name than "Admin" but he has not answered and even if he does answer, how will we know if his answer is truthful? What will the implication be if he doesn't answer? Could he have objectively interacted with other members under the "Admin" name?

Isn't transparency akin to honesty?

@Allamanda I was actually addressing @Marionville but the supporting evidence is all right there in his "article".

@LovinLarge I think there is way too much overanalysing going on with this issue at the moment. All that this digging and looking for ulterior motives is doing is causing good people to become paranoid, take down posts and photographs, leave the site altogether, and just generally likely to cause the disbandment of the whole site. The old adage “be careful what you wish for” springs to mind ...not to mention. “don’t look a gift horse in the mouth”. Are we all so naive as to not think that a free site, custom made for nonbelievers with no adverts and no fees may just possibly be something other than merely an altruistic gesture, or did we suspect that it was likely to be a social experiment of some sort. I know I did, but on balance decided that whatever the design was, I was gaining more from my enjoyment and social interaction than whatever it was perceived by the operator that they gained from my membership.

@Allamanda At the risk of seeming clueless, though I've found some of what I've heard about dismaying, I'm unconvinced, but open, to the possibility that anything in particular needs to be done And while I respect a desire to avoid passivity, I'm not convinced that continuing on as before is being passive. But if that be the case, what do you propose, bearing in mind there surely must be more than a single way to address an issue?

@LovinLarge As am I the best arbiter for what analysis is best for me...but as a non American I think maybe this other site is not as an emotive issue for me.

@Marionville That makes good sense. Let us not allow this to come between us.

@LovinLarge No...of course we won’t.

@Allamanda I can respect that. I would just wonder whether voting with your mouth or your hands might be more effective when there is no comparable website for you feet to bring you to. Though as you say, it's a personal decision.

. . . a very good read :

[goodreads.com]

I sure don't need to talk to others about my non-belief. I don't need to talk about it to understand it nor to fulfill some need for connection on that subject. My non-belief is actually not a big part of my life and certainly not the biggest part of my identity.

Part of why I don’t come here but a couple of times a month. So much discussion about not believing. I thought this was a place where I could talk about all other things without that subject coming up.

@indirect76 Exactly. That's my whole reason for coming here for community, not to talk about belief or lack of it, but to explore what other things I may have in common with the members here as well as what common interests we might share. It's also interesting and useful to hear how other members cope with and experience life as non-believers and non-conformists in the Christian-dominated society and culture of America.

Our feelings about - and penchant for discussion of - our non-belief probably vary based on our experiences. A person who was not subjected to coercive indoctrination might feel very differently than a person who was.

A person who is surrounded by coercive attempts - still! - to indoctrinate them might feel more of a need to talk about it than someone whose family and neighbors do not pressure them.

If you feel no pressure, and hence no need, hooray for you! Seriously, that's great! But we are not all so lucky. (For what it's worth, I fall into a third catagory: I just enjoy dissing religion. It's a fun pastime.)

You apparently have had very different social experiences from my own.
Not "require," but "want." Not about "not believing" so much as living surrounded by people and institutions who expect THEIR beliefs to get to rule society. For example, I'm queer. Religion's minions are Still trying their damnedest to fuck us over, and they are trying to run governments at every level to do that. I WANT to respond to the attacks, rather than remain forever another target. Discussions helps me remain alert to current events and to hone my skills for verbal social justice advocacy.

I get tired of all the religion talk too, but understand that some people need the outlet. Some may be struggling with their departure from religion, some have to deal with overbearing religious relatives, some may have to deal with discrimination.

@Petter @creative51

...just some light on that

[attorneyatlawmagazine.com]

Enjoy the read

@TheInterlooper False equivalency? O.k. not going to waste my time...

I advocate minimizing the pejorative use.

How does anyone engage in Critical Thinking without 'arguing' ?

I contend that misunderstanding is typically incredibly easy and real understanding is typically incredibly hard.

@Allamanda, yes, and deliberately so.

Yes, all problems stem from overpopulation. We can fix it the easy way(really difficult), or by doing nothing we default to the hard way(beyond horrible). I don't think the human specie as an entity is actually capable of seeing the big picture clear enough to make the hard choices required for the less difficult option.

There is no scarcity of resources, No scarcity of Money. No scarcity of Food (unless you are poor).
What there is a scarcity of is Tolerance, equality of income and opportunity.

@Allamanda I agree. During this pandemic I have come to the conclusion the reason humanity can't advance socially is because of primarily two groups, the greedy and the stupid.

None of what you said makes any sense.

Seems like maybe there's a scarcity of education, too. Critical thinking. That kind of thing.

@Allamanda Dis-proven by whom? Throughout history there have been struggles on getting enough to survive. Always especially in paternalistic societies women, children and outsiders are last. This is a natural tendency. Greed is also natural but people don't destroy other tribes because of greed. It makes no sense to me that a human weakness can cause so much misery. Caste systems are not greed based but who gets what, resource based.

@cruxter Thank you. My late partner would answer ideas as this as "they don't want to see the big picture." We always look for the quickest and easiest way.

@creative51 Funny, but so much of what I have and still are reading paints just the opposite picture. Our water is seriously polluted, toxins are found in the soils the Great Lakes are seriously polluted due to run off from farms, homelessness is at a crises level and on and on. We are not as rich as many want to believe. People really need to wake up and see what is happening in this country and stop trying to shift the blame even if some is due we all are responsible.

@ReadyforaChange Sorry, this is something I have learned over 25+ years working with many environmental groups. It sometimes makes sense only to those in the know and are willing to look at uncomfortable sides of the stories.

@AndrewReyes Both are unrealized examples of a critical resource. Resources are not just things found in nature but also services.

@JackPedigo Thank you for taking the time to clarify. I never suggested the opposite, but thanks anyway.

@AndrewReyes You very welcome.

"Woke", "Wake up", and "Open your eyes." When I read or hear those words, I immediately lose any trust in the individual's knowledge and education. ‍

@Dorkyndaft Me too.

@Allamanda

English, please.

I’ve avoided this drama but I love that you called him Karen!

The goons are out for blood today I see.

Bozos.

@Allamanda IIUC, both websites are created with no small effort/expense, offering the best PrivacyPolicy/TOS that I have ever encountered, and provided gratis for those not disabusing Guidelines.

Other websites exist, others can be created, choice exists.

Why would 'knowledge/consent' from the creator(s) be expected ?
Is there some a priori evidence to lead someone to think that it might be given ?

I don't see significant justification for 'moral crisis'.

@Allamanda "delicate sensibilities of some right-wing members"

Isn't disparaging others 'rude' ?

@Allamanda "Morals are individual"

. . . IMO, falsified . . .
I doubt there would be much (if any) agreement that the morality of causing children severe suffering is "individual" !

@Allamanda I recognize that your response was to a male . . .

'rude' is subjective, as are judgements which can differ.

However my question was gender 'agnostic', your response is not.
Isn't that 'shocking' ?

@Allamanda . . . any search engine will give affirmative evidence (lots) for the term.

@Allamanda Liberals are the only ones doing something about it. Have you not been watching?

@Willow_Wisp Although I'm totally opposed to what the other side is doing, they certainly are "doing something about it".

@Allamanda This liberal has never led all that comfortable a life and ESPECIALLY November 2016, have felt unsafe and vulnerable every day since that day.

@Allamanda I beg to differ. Anyone who could support that animal is no higher up on the food chain in my opinion. Stop defending trash...few of them will ever change.

My comment was initially tongue-in-cheek, and really about how admin was involved, but now that I've been challenged, are y'all honestly saying that people who support racism, sexism, and homophobia (just to make a few of his innumerable bad qualities) are not "lesser" in some way? Really?

@ReadyforaChange

I do not support Trump, but Allamamda is clearly correct here. Dehumanizing groups is the beginning of violent oppression.

It's simply irresponsible language. That is why I will not stand for for any encroachment of human rights. That is just the first step down the slippery slope.

@JeffMurray THANK YOU. and Amen.

@JeffMurray, @SCal If you don't vote for Joe, then you are voting for Trump. Thanks bunches.

@JeffMurray, @SCal Also how would we know if she/he is correct if most of us don't understand what the hell she/he is saying? Seriously? A bit of plain English would be helpful. So much BS, have grown tired of it these past few years. Haven't you?

@ReadyforaChange What about JoJo? Or no one? No one is a much better choice!

@SCal AGAIN, if you don't vote at all, it's like you are voting for Trump. You want that on your conscience again?

@SCal Nope. Sorry. That's like saying that hating people for an arbitrary reason (e.g. the color of their skin) is the same as hating someone for a specific reason like them being a racist. Those two things are not on par.

That's the difference between me snd you. I will not be driven to hatred for anyone.

Enjoy life, @JeffMurray .

... the lesser evil, is still evil.

I will not vote to enslave my neighbor.

@SCal Seems like it takes a special amount of privilege and luck to make it this far in life without someone wronging you so egregiously that you hate them.

@JeffMurray

I have been wronged plenty!

I simply refuse to hate people. That is my choice. Especially when I know that we have all been conditioned within an extremely sick society.

@SCal So you then just describe it as 'strongly dislike'?

Dare? Is that the name of another site?

. . . (not related to admin), but see my reply to linxminx above . . .

"What, Why, Makes no sense". That is who we the people who did not vote elected by NOT VOTING in '16. "My vote doesn't really make a difference. I don't really like Hilary. I ain';t vot'in 'fo no baby killer. What do you want to vote for anyway?" All comments I heard when I was in the work force. Union members voting to put themselves out of a job. Oppressed bigots having their comments prohibited on the work room floor. I worked in a "men's locker room" & I know what your husbands' said & did without your knowledge. Or perhaps with it. 4 divorces & each spouse got the union won benefits. Same sex partners for 15 years got zip. Conserve ? Progress? I choose PROGRESS. Wanna conserve something? Conserve the planet. Not so much your portfolio.

@Allamanda check

You oppose them by continuing to ONLY posts true things, and vote.

@cruxter
When they own an control everything that is nail down and most of what is not nailed down, it is hard to be a viable opponent or an opposing group!!!

@of-the-mountain - Who exactly are "they"?

@cruxter
Are we that moronic to ask such asinine questions?

Apparently so!!!