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There's been alot of talk recently about defunding police departments across the country, and while I'd be in favor of some type(s) of reform I think totally defunding is a bad idea. This is a question I've been meaning to ask that's mostly for those in favor of defunding the police. It is a well known fact that over the last ten or so years now abortion providers across the country have been facing increased threats of violence and home picketing, and abortion clinics targeted for bombings and arsons. Many women's choice clinics rely on police protection due to such threats as private security guards can be costly, so my question is... to those who desire to see all police departments be defunded what will clinics do that do not have private security guards in their budget, who will help if a clinic gets fire bombed etc? At that point, even those who would also be against privately funded guards would have to concede some type of security/police force would be necessary to deal with such an emergency. A recent post on here (think I saw it on here anyway) prompted me to ask that question, as I think that's a serious concern when it comes to threats against reproductive choice clinics.
[cbsnews.com]

SpikeTalon 9 Sep 2
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I am not in the group that lately called for defunding the police. No, I'm not into such half measures. End all tyranny I say. The only way to do that is to end the monopoly of police, courts, etc. Anarchy 2020.

As to the potential problem with security for abortion centers, I think it's the same thing as how only the relatively rich can afford private school. The problem is you have to pay for the public option whether you pay for the private option or not, and the public option is usually more expensive and lower quality. Charter schools are a great example of what happens when people are allowed to pick a private option instead of rather than in addition to paying for the baseline public option. They help the poorest most.

I certainly agree on the charter schools, compared side by side with public schools these days charter schools would look like a huge success.

On the anarchy part... here recently I think the true anarchists (ones who favor much smaller government and individual liberty) have gotten a bad rap. Those that are rioting and destroying property are not anarchists, they are just criminals period. The real anarchists believe in the concept of property rights.

@SpikeTalon Indeed. I like voluntaryists, panarchists, agorists, ancaps, anarcho transhumanists, and basically anyone else who stands against tyranny rather than for it.

To be clear though, I'm not just a minarchist. I don't think we should have a "much smaller" government. I think any government, whatever its size, infringes on property rights and will eventually grow tyrannical with increasingly liberal interpretations of its founding documents. The best solution would be allowing a free market to provide rights protection services on top of everything else.

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Only the most fringe of the fringe want to defund to the point of abolishment.

The vast majority want to defund and reduce the duties that officers are expected to perform. Reduce the number of cops and increase the number of mental health professionals to respond to calls which require negotiation rather than force. Also, invest in education, affordable housing, rehabilitation, and things of that nature to address the problem at it's core and reduce crime rather than putting money into police and prisons to deal with crime after it occurs.

Of course there must be police. The police need much reform and we do indeed need them for situations such as the scenario that you described, and much more. If police weren't constantly on the prowl for traffic violations and non-violent drug crimes, they would have much more time and effort to spend on actual crime and duties that truly serve the people and there would need to be fewer of them because most of what they do is go after people for petty non-violent crimes to meet their quotas. So that would cost less and the money saved could be put to use elsewhere or be kept in the tax payer's pocket.

I mostly agree there. The problem started when state and local police forces were allowed to unionize, and LE itself started to steer away from Sheriffs and deputies in favor of large departments which in turn have become like a business as you mentioned examples above. I truly believe that the issues with LE nowadays could have been mostly avoidable had we stuck with sheriffs and deputies.

@SpikeTalon

For sure. The profit motivation of law enforcement is a cancer for society. It incentivizes LE to confiscate property, write as many citations as possible, and waste money on unnecessary toys rather than spending on useful things like body cams.

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Spike . Nobody w five ounces of brains wants to defund police force . We want to reform .
None of this was in our daily menu of dark thoughts and anger , until latest events and stories . And that’s a shame actually , but it’s true .
It has to be a better way to select , educate , training , monitor police force and their actions . Every Out of highschool boy can be given a gun and A basic 6 month training and become a police man / woman . I have a problem w that 🙁
Police are not to deliver justice , are to bring criminals to justice . And it seems to me , that “ Justice “ is the bigger problem .
I don’t want my police man to die either , when an asshole is threating him w a gun and he is there to interfere and protect . I want my police man to be Trained and accountable to not kill / rape / mistreat people who are not a threat to them .
Is that too much to ask ?
I ve read the article , thank u for sharing .
Y the states are not arresting these protestors who camp out of plannet parenthood ? Y not charging them and put them in jail for few weeks ? Under what law , is ok for them to protest their belief that abortions are a crime ? Y are we harboring religious beliefs more than peace ?
Anyone that protests anything w violence should chill in jail for few and that’s justice in my book .

I know personal experiances are not valuable / evidences / facts , but here we are :
I work nights . Unfortunately , I am a woman , and worse , noticeable . The winter time , when dark early , I make sure I get gas at daylight and around my house . My hospital is 30 miles away and in the worse area of our district , I mean , u just don’t stop for nothing around that area , don’t matter if u are black or white or w polka dots for all is worth .
Last year I made it to ED and by 0100 I was too sick even to talk . ( sleep deprivation / dehydration / forgot to eat too . Moron ). I left work , and going through 4 stoping lights b4 getting on the highway , and the car next to me , two morons , started trying to talk , signal , u know the deal .
Normally , sad but true , I even have a baseball cup in my car for such occasions . I try to pin all my hair up and try to pass for a boy . 🙁
The assholes followed me all the way to other side of the water spike . 30 miles , two bridges , one tunnel . In two occations were next to me in the two lane tunnel and I thought they will shoot me , the passenger show me his gun .
I think I peed my self . Literally . But I drove . When I crossed the water and they were still crushing infront / by side / and almost on top of the back of my car , I drove straight to the police station near my house instead of going to my house .
They were gone when I parked my car .
I told the police men everything , I was shaking , they escorted me to my house an hr later .
The whole time I was there , two of the police men were flirting and commenting on my appearance . I did not had scrubs on . I changed to jeans and a v neck top b4 I left the hospital , bcz I vomited on my scrubs . I have boobs . I am sorry ? The police men that drove w me at my house , and they were kind enough to come all the way to front door , they also asked if I am single , and one gave him his number . And I had to say “ thank u “. 🙁
I don’t have any kids spike , but that’s not the police I want for the daughter that I don’t have , The same ways the child molestor coach or teacher is not the one that I want , or the weirdo doctor and the uncaring nurse are not my choice .
Who regulates the police force ? Who checks on them and their actions ? Who holds accountable the ones that should protects us ?
Here is a well said to my opinion part from John :

I'm okay with reform and better training along with more accountability, and glad to hear you believe the same. I agree on the protesting outside clinics, I'm fine with such just so long as everything stays peaceful. Anyone who threatens to bomb a building or start a fire etc should be put in jail. As for police behaviors go, that's some situation you went through, and the thing is you never should have had to go through such if there was better accountability. No easy solution there, some suggest privatizing as the public police unions have become too powerful, but of course alot would also be against such. Thank you for sharing your story.

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