I don't see how voting for a right wing warmonger is good for anyone's self respect.

@RoboGraham if it's not orange, I am for it right now.....

It's not a group, it's a category.

Try watching the video before embarrassing yourself.

I don't consider supporting a right wing warmonger to be "useful"

Are you ever going to grow up and have substantive debates rather than putting forth these pathetic attempts to belittle because you know the candidate you support is garbage?

@RoboGraham ...you don’t do well with substance, kid.. You’ve drunk the kool aid. Hey, just for kicks - let’s find out, WWBD?

Me too. I wish everyone would vote.

This isn't meant to discourage anyone from voting, quite the opposite. It's to motivate people to vote for candidates who actual represent we the people.

Apparently, it’s what gets this guy off…

I wish the people who have given up on it and don't bother to vote would vote for a single third party. That would make that party competitive with the major 2. I'm hoping the People's Party will draw in some of those disillusioned voters.

@RoboGraham I watched the video of their convention. If they have a candidate for prez in four years, they will get my vote. If they have a congressional candidate for my area or a senate candidate for my state in two years, they might also get my vote for those offices. I would like to see them have a candidate for governor in my state two years from now as well. My state's governor is going to be very vulnerable two years from now for how she's blown the handling of Covid.

It's got nothing to do with the loss of a single politician. It's much larger than that.

Yes, it is abundantly obvious that it will be either Trump or Biden, and that is exactly the problem.

@RoboGraham If you actually believe that a third party will be corrupted less than the Dems or Repubs are now corrupted, you don’t know how people acquire political power.

Before the 3rd party’s members start winning elections, they will be ignored or ridiculed.

When the 3rd party’s members win elections they will get offers from people who want laws that favor their interests.

When the 3rd party’s members accept those offers/bribes, they will be corrupt.

Stop wishing and start thinking. Get off your butt and do some of the hard work of politics.

@yvilletom

Every human has the potential to be corrupted of course.

The central tenet of the People's Party is that they don't take those bribes. That's what makes them different. That means that they will have an enormous monetary disadvantage but it also means that people who are disgusted with the corruption of the major parties will turn to the them. And there are an awful lot of us. the largest block of potential voters is the non-voters. Those who don't bother because it seems pointless.

Money isn't everything. Over the last year, there have been several examples of corruption free progressives defeating old school establishment democrats in primaries despite enormous funding disadvantages. How are they able to do that? Because they support popular policy and people are able to see that these non-corrupt candidates actual represent them rather than the special interests.

I'm sure that offers of bribes will come to them and they, being flawed humans, will accept some. Even so, they would be much less corrupt than either of the major parties. It will take time for them to sell out completely and during that time, they might actually make some positive reforms which will help common people.

I've come to this conclusion by doing quite a lot of thinking. It's not easy going against the grain like this and I wouldn't be doing it if I hadn't thought it out over the course of years and come to the conclusion that a third party is our only hope. We tried getting a progressive nominated in the democratic party and both times, the establishment used all of it's power, influence, and wealth to squash our movement's progress. It is hopeless to go that route so the formation of a better party to replace them is logical.

If you'd like to see me off of my ass and doing the work of politics, all you have to do is go to my profile and have a look at the picture of me standing outside Senator Cardin's office just after I had gone in there to have a meeting with his staff.

What hard work of politics are you doing? You seem to have an extremely cynical attitude. Do you think there is no hope at all? That we are doomed to be ruled over by corrupt oligarchs and we should just accept that and vote for the lesser evil every 4 years.

@RoboGraham There was no garden of eden. Third party or not, there will be no garden of eden.

@RoboGraham
I'm sure that offers of bribes will come to them and they, being flawed humans, will accept some.

Even so, they would be much less corrupt than either of the major parties.

It will take time for them to sell out completely and during that time, they might actually make some positive reforms which will help common people.

Much less corrupt? Lessor of two evils? Seriously? Corrupt is corrupt...

You pretty much said both Biden and Trump are liars although Biden is much less corrupt.. Oops, I meant liar...

Notice the hypocrisy?

@Cutiebeauty

No, what hypocrisy are you talking about?

Repeating my words back to me without making any point doesn't achieve anything.

It's not that complicated, let me see if I can explain it to you. A political party which is predicated on anti-corruption principles, as the people's party is, which is composed of members who have sworn not to take campaign contributions from big money donors (aka- political bribes) and currently holds no power, will of course be less corrupt than the two thoroughly corrupted major parties which are in power.

Over time, the members of this party will be offered bribes, because that's how our system functions, but they will mostly refuse because refusal to accept bribery is at the core of their political philosophy. However, being human beings, some of them will inevitably give in and take some of the money being offered, especially as they gain power due to the concept that power corrupts people. This process will take time though. So there will be a period in which they are much less corrupt than the major parties and during that time, they will actually represent we the people rather than the special interests. It would take quite a long time, probably decades, for this party to become as corrupted as the major parties and that's a great deal of opportunity to make some series positive reforms. If and when this party does become as corrupted and useless as the others, it will be time to replace it with something new.

@yvilletom

There was no garden of eden and there never will be. Duh. perfection is impossible, of course, but that doesn't mean we can't improve and strive to do better.

Looks like that response of yours confirms it, you are a cynic who has no hope for a better future. You have accepted our current system based on corruption and bribery and you don't have the imagination to conceive of a more equitable system nor the will to fight for it. In that case, why bother getting into political discussions?

@RoboGraham all you did was repeat yourself here. I understood it the first time... You seem to do repeating yourself often.. however, you are the one who doesn't understand...

You've said in the past that Biden a liar whenever someone points out Trump's lying and you don't make any distinction of the degree or frequency of the lying of trump vs Biden.

However, in this post, you do consider degrees of corruption because it's to your benefit to do so... All politicians lie... All .. why is the people's party any different...?

@Cutiebeauty

"why is the people's party any different...? " Looks like I'll need to repeat myself again. Because anti-corruption is at the heart of their political philosophy. If they aren't taking bribes, they aren't beholden to the special interests which means they can actually represent us, their constituents. If they represent us, they have much less incentive to lie to us.

I point out Biden's lying and corruption, I also point out Trump's lying and corruption. I've always been clear that Trump is worse. So let's consider the degree of corruption for each. Trump's corruption and dishonesty is like a category 5 hurricane. Biden isn't as bad, he's more like a very intense tropical storm. And the level of corruption for the people's party translated into this analogy would be something like a gentle breeze. That could change over time, but for now, they don't even compare, they are not at all on the same level as the major parties.

@RoboGraham I guess I'll have to repeat myself as well...

All politicians lie....
All politicians lie...
All politicians lie...

We choose which lies we want to believe...

@Cutiebeauty

Okay, so you don't look at the degree of lying? We choose which lies to believe, yes, and you have chosen to believe the lies of the democrats.

Also, there's more to corruption than just lying. As I've mentioned, the taking of bribes is a huge part of it. Trump takes bribes, Biden takes bribes, but I'm not away of any of the members of the people's party taking bribes.

@RoboGraham An error repeated is still an error. Repeating an error is a refusal or an inability to learn.

As to your saying I am a cynic who has no hope for a better future”. If you live, your refusal or inability to see your frustrated ideallism will result in your becoming a violent tyrant.

On my travels between idealism and cynicism, I pause at realism.

So you’re not aware of any of the members of the people's party taking bribes. Well, wake up; only people who have the power to make laws will get offers. Your “peoples party” members have no power and only fools would offer them anything of value.

YOUR REFUSAL OR INABILITY TO LEARN MAKES YOU POWERLESS, SO YOU JUST REPEAT, REPEAT AND REPEAT.

Argument appears to to be the only kind of personal relationship you know how to sustain. It obviously fills a void in your life.

To answer your repetitiions is to waste time. Period.

@RoboGraham actually I do consider degrees and frequency of lying. I've stated that earlier.. I've also stated that you didn't consider it.
I actually prefer Bernie and AOC but that's a no win situation right now.. So I'll vote against trump as I've said repeatedly.. Voting third party now is insanity regardless of any long term goal or idealism...

@yvilletom

What's the error?

Your assumption that I will someday become a violent tyrant is strange. I'm an absolute nobody, I have no potential to become a tyrant even if I wanted to. And I'm not sure how my refusal to vote for corrupt politicians and my advocacy for an anti-corruption party leads you to believe I would. I just want leaders who represent people over special interests, that's not out of the ordinary really.

To me, if the realism that you have settled on is acceptance of the status quo corrupt system we have now, if you have given up on trying to improve this very flawed society, you haven't settled on realism at all, you've settled on cynicism because we can, and will, do better, with or without you.

As far as members of the people's party not being offered bribes, that's true, most of them have no political power, so no offers yet. However, Nina Turner was a state senator and she is well known for refusing to engage in corruption. And, we can give them the benefit of the doubt. They claim that they will not take the bribes, it is at the core of their political beliefs, so it's reasonable to assume that they mostly won't if given the opportunity. We know for certain that the major parties are thoroughly corrupt so I'd say we can trust these guys much more than them.

You don't know me well enough to jump to conclusions about my personal relationships. There are plenty of people I get along with just fine and by the way, when discussing posts in the politics category, argument is to be expected. That's the point. We have disagreements and we make logical arguments to try and come up with reasonable answers. What we shouldn't do is shout at people with all caps and make wild unreasonable assertions about people becoming tyrants and nonsensical personal attacks such as that.

And yes, arguing on here does fill a void in my life. It gives me an outlet to speak my mind about important issues. I don't need social media to form meaningful relationships, that's what real life is for. Although I have met some really awesome people here and become friends with them. All of them save one have left the site because there is too much toxicity but we keep in touch in other ways.

@Cutiebeauty

Yes, you said that I didn't consider the degree of lying. But I do and I did. The republicans lie to the highest degree, the democrats are a close second, and the people's party are not even in the same ball park. This is why I've said over and over again that I'd prefer Biden over Trump but I won't vote for him.

I too will vote against Trump, and Biden.