What if you're atheist and agnostic?

@JeffMurray I've always said you can't be both.
After all, how can you believe there's no god AND not know if there's one or not, at the same time?
Two different things.

@Storm1752 I think you just explained it for me. It is precisely the fact that they are two different things (not mutually exclusive) that they can coexist.

I believe that because the Steelers already secured a playoff birth they will probably sit some starters and the Browns will win the game getting them into the playoffs for the first time in almost two decades.
I do not know if any of that will actually happen.

A lot of people believe their spouse will never cheat on them.
No one knows it.

I believed the weather was going to be nice on my Jamaican vacation because of historical data and meteorological predictions.
I obviously didn't know that because it rained for 8 straight days and nights, and no one could believe what was happening. The locals said they had never seen that much rain their entire lives even in the rainy season, which was months away.

@JeffMurray Whatever you say, Jeff, about the Steelers or the weather. Those are physical things about which you can opine.
'God,' is (or isn't) a thing, so it's in a completely different category. You're confused.
But go ahead and think whatever you want.
Btw, in my opinion, the Steelers WILL win anyway. I fervently believe IN that eventuality! No one can convince me otherwise. It is a fact! Feel free to mortgage your house.

@Storm1752 It's still a difference of belief and knowledge. So for things you can't know, but have a belief about, you are both things. You said you believe the Steelers will win. You can't know that. If you did, you would be mortgaging your home to bet on the game. The fact that you haven't pretty much proves I'm right about that.
And this is all pretty odd coming from someone who apparently has a problem with gnostic atheists considering your desire they "find their own site". If you don't like their claim they know something they obviously can't know, and you have no problem stating beliefs about something you can't know, how do you not fall into the category of people that agree 'atheist' and 'agnostic' are not mutually exclusive??

@JeffMurray Simple: you can't take a neutral position and at the same time take a position; that is, that 'god' doesn't exist. The former takes no position, the latter does. You can't have it both ways.
And I am POSITIVE the Steelers will win that game. On the other hand, I'm not betting on it.

@Storm1752 They're not contradictory positions just as I showed in multiple examples above.
And if you're POSITIVE the Steelers will win, but won't bet, you're lying and/or stupid.

@JeffMurray Okay that's enough. Let us meet again without resentments or hard feelings. This is a never-ending argument. We've both stated our points of view.
Thanks for the same exact 'discussion' I've had many times on here. It's a problem with this site. It's "Agnostics.com," yet it invites in atheists as well, who have gradually (?) taken it over. You insist Agnostics are Atheists and vice versa, and I insist we are fundamentally different.
Such is life.
Have a good day. We'll never agree. Protestants-Catholics, Shiites-Sunnis, Stalinists-Trotskyites, you name it, some arguments cannot be resolved.
I only wish Agnostics had a forum on which we could explore our potential unencumbered.
My only original point, my hypothesis was, in response to the post itself, the conversations on here have gone stale because.....? And I offered a possible reason: agnostic voices have been drowned out so those voices have slowly drifted away.
I'll stick with that.

@Storm1752 Wait, I'm not saying they are one in the same. I'm saying technically everyone should identify as an agnostic because no one can know if god exists. But that includes theists, too [I have met several agnostic Christians]. So it's like a square/rectangle situation. All atheists [should also be] agnostics, but not all agnostics are also atheists. And I'm not trying to encumber anyone. I'm not telling anyone what they should believe. (I don't even believe people can control what they believe.)

@JeffMurray It was just my two cents, and I hope it made some sense. (get it?)
To somebody out there, anyway.

@Storm1752 That brings us back to the beginning then. If atheists get their own site, do people like me get to go to both? Is it just "gnostic" atheists you dislike?
Side note: would you rather have different sites for liberal and conservative agnostics/atheists or different sites for agnostics and gnostics?

@JeffMurray Whatever, Jeff. My views are clear. Scroll back and read them again if you so wish.
I was responding to the original poster, not you.
I'm done. Why don't you 'follow' me if you want to continue this. Otherwise, I'm over it.
Bye.

@Storm1752 POSITIVE, huh?

I don't think there should be any blocks, only bans. There was a big discussion about it in the Community Senate, but nothing came of any of it.

People just like you did because they couldn't tolerate their idiotic beliefs being challenged.

@JeffMurray Haha. I love it personally be the left ‘typically’ rolls to name calling and feelings to support their arguments. The Covid posts are the best. I share them in the lunch room. It’s always hilarious.

@CourtJester Now we know you're lying about being a doctor. One doctor that thinks like you in regards to a global pandemic is hard enough to believe, but a whole lunchroom full all at the same hospital: impossible.

@JeffMurray Well, not the entire lunch room. They like minded doctors and nurses that I typically have lunch with get a kick out of it though.

I have actually been so scared of the ‘pandemic’ I’m on a flight home from the Florida Keys.

@CourtJester Well, I hope you get exposed to a tremendous amount of the virus to prove how much of a hoax it is.

@JeffMurray I work in a hospital and or a private practice office five to seven days a week and I never wear a mask outside of work unless it’s a service that I absolutely need, such as sitting on a plane (Delta is stupid annal retentive about it).

I think I’ll be okay.

@CourtJester Just to really show 'em though, you should go to the "fake Covid" ICU and take some really deep breaths with your mask off.
But let me get this straight, you are claiming you just became a doctor (but not on July 1st like every other doctor in the country, a fact I pointed out before) and you are somehow flying to the Florida during your residency, yet also working private practice somehow during residency too? You're fuckin' hilarious with your "I'm a doctor" schtick.

@JeffMurray And as I’ve said; I don’t put 100% details on social media, but the offer still stands to come to Alabama and visit. I’ll gladly take you to dinner and show you around. And the Urgent Care facility that I fill in on nights sometimes is privately owned.
Just because you think that a typical mask or a bandana works against a virus doesn’t mean that they don’t either though.

@CourtJester It's not a matter of thinking, it's a matter of knowledge. Initial viral load of an infecting antigen can absolutely effect the course of a disease. I shouldn't have to explain that to a doctor. This invariably means that masks can save lives even if the antigen is airborne. The fact that you don't know this, believe this, or support the spread of this information speaks volumes about you and the [likely imaginary] "people in your lunch room". Thing is, you have the ability to easily prove you're a doctor and for months and months of saying things that call that into question, and me calling you out on them, the only thing you do is profess you are without ever providing any evidence. I can't imagine anyone that has read our exchanges believes you actually are. Like in your last message, you are stating that as a first year resident you moonlight nights in private practice. That just doesn't happen. Maybe 3rd years or fellows, but not first years. Maybe a lot of people don't know that, but those of us in the medical field do. You could prove me wrong, but you won't... cause you can't.

@JeffMurray You do know a few things. I’ll give you that. But your knowledge of my personal life is limited because I’m very guarded on social media because current and future employers and employees look for it. But if you’d like to visit, I would gladly accept you. If you have a calculator, you can do the math on my age and subtract four military years. And one drunken year right out of the military.

As for Covid and masks; yes it is a real virus. I don’t believe any sane person can dispute this. It’s a cold virus that affects the lungs more so than the flu (in some cases) and can affect blood vessels. You have to admit that it has been highly politicized and that there really is very little medical data to support many claims on a medical standard.

A respirator is used to protect from paint fumes. Full hazmat suits are used for worse than paint. A N95 and a surgical mask will stop a virus though? Quite simply; people don’t know much about Covid. A surgical mask will not stop a virus. You have to admit that. A N95 stops more but very little. A damn bandana is just for looks. And the face shields are just stupid.

Considering that at one point it was completely unsafe to go to the bank at all, but safe enough to go to Walmart with a mask; and at the same time, it was 100% safe to protest George Floyd shoulder to shoulder said a lot to many of us. The CDC actually made a decision to give out Covid vaccines based on race before receiving a load of blow back. Now because of the social justice do-gooder notions, a 28 year old nurse or doctor can receive a vaccine before a 68 year old man or woman of any race that has a 90 time hire rate of death from Covid is some states. It doesn’t say much for the institution by any means and leaves an open minded person to ponder the reasoning and the facts of the situation. Add that the most open states and countries have the lowest rates of death and transmission. We’ve also seen the lowest flu rates in freaken ages.

C’mon Man.....

@CourtJester PM me your license number. I can verify it online and you'll prove me wrong and I'll never again be able to make the claim you aren't a doctor. We may disagree on pretty much everything we've ever talked about, but I hope if there's anything people can say about me, it's that I don't knowingly make false statements. I'm worried about my online presence too, obviously not as much considering I'm still using my real name, so I'm not going to publish it, not that the degrees of separation would easily be overcome anyway.
I don't know what your age has to do with anything... I've worked with first year residents that were in their 20s, 30s, and 40s. Age tells you nothing.
A doctor would know several things about science:

1. It does the best it can with the available knowledge.
   This does not mean it's already right, but it's always willing to amend conclusions given new evidence.
2. It can be misused by people for tainted means and/or ends. It is not science's fault and that shouldn't be held against it. Since if it is good science, it is repeatable and verifiable to however, ultimately these misuses could be/are usually illuminated.

So are some claims inaccurate or wrong. Absolutely. Did Fauci lie about mask use in the beginning? He did. A doctor would know why and understand the goal of this. If you think that's worthy of discrediting him, I think that's horribly misguided, but I suppose I can't blame you. But that shouldn't mean you should downplay or ignore data that is supported just because he said it.

Should we have been going into banks? Not if the drive through or online banking could have met your needs. Should people have been doing as much shopping for essentials online as possible? Absolutely. Was protesting ever safe shoulder to shoulder? Of course not. But didn't your mama ever tell you two wrongs don't make a right?

Have there been tremendous bungles on the roll-out of the vaccine? Without a doubt. There are practitioners that only do virtual visits that got their vaccine weeks ago and I as a front-line worker that is in aerosolizing procedures with Covid-positive patients still haven't been called. Is I remember correctly, someone was bragging about how the military was ready and waiting to "warp speed" the vaccine to the American people.

You'll have to cite specific areas if you want to make sure you're comparing like examples.

@AnneWimsey There were so many things he said and incongruities in his timeline that proved to me he wasn't a doctor it's not even funny.
Good leg work in his license though!!!

@JeffMurray we got into it a couple of months ago & I told him I was going to see what the real story was...us retired people have plenty of time to be on "hold".....suddenly he was all sweetness & charm, which made me even more suspicious! And I am like a pit bull sometimes......