Since the last post stating that the rioters were being paid by the supporters of the Trump Administration, I have found links from them to the Russians and the Internet Research Organization, and Putin himself. Apparently, this Russian effort has made it possible for about a third of the population of the US and European Countries to support the extreme right-wing being funded and supported by Russia. We are in deep shit.

@dalefvictor Putin was the answer to who had the most to gain, as well.

@rainmanjr interesting and plausible he paid senators to look the other way over 3 mll to Moscow mitch alone and almost that to ryan....remember that snake....and he has been trumps cash cow until we took over

??? can you link?

@273kelvin Just check the Politics threads for a post that has a BuzzfeedNews link. You're sharp enough to find it. I'm not going to spoon feed you. Hint: An Organized Strike Disguised As A Protest.

@273kelvin This is what I was listening to

@dalefvictor I like malcom ty

But what you have suggested is disloyalty. It seems like you are trying to eat your cake and have it too.

The bigger issue here is that we can't really entertain the notion that this wasn't Trump's doing. This plan was hatched by Trump and two convicted felons he invited to the Oval Office, and was intentionally leaked so white supremacists groups across the country would hear the call and make their way to DC for the "wild" happenings. Then, when they arrived, he stirred them up with his talk of fighting and strength and Rudy's "trial by combat" shit.

@JeffMurray I am NOT saying that this was not Trumps doing. What I am saying was that he was set up to fail. That there were lots of people in the administration that could have made a point of beefing up the security but did not and their motives were not pro-Trump.

@273kelvin So it's not that the Capitol Police are racist shitbags just like police departments all across the country, it's that they were secretly given marching orders from the GOP to stand aside and let a group of insurrectionists take over the Capitol so that Trump would look a little worse than he already does to some people forcing them to then decide whether growing a spine and holding him accountable for his actions only to incur the vengeful wrath of the petulant-child-in-chief or continuing to support an unhinged, seditious asshole would be less politically damaging?

Occam's razor is telling me to go with 'racist police'. I just don't see how your theory is a politically enviable position they'd want to put themselves in.

@JeffMurray This is not either-or, this is and... Yes to all the racist shit bag stuff and people in authority letting it happen in order to lance the boil of Trump.

@273kelvin I still don't see how it's politically advantageous to be in that position over the one where the police quell the insurrection and they simply keep their heads in the sand for 2 more weeks. It's the same reason McConnell blocked the vote on the $2k checks. He knew it would be a bad position for Senate Republicans to be in to have to say on record whether or not they wanted their constituents to get an extra $1400.

@JeffMurray If the police repelled the insurection? Then we still would be left with Trump and Trumpism as a very significant force. As it stands now, Repubs can do a kinda Meatloaf. (I have been loyal ...but I won't do that). From now on Trump will haemorrhage support. It has been the fastest way to make him a has-been.

@273kelvin Again, I wish you were right, but I have no evidence that you are.
Our elections are pretty tight considering the EC still reigns, so as long as Trump can tip the scales some, it's the same as tipping it a lot and the Republicans will fall in line. It's what they do, and they are very good at it. Just compare statements of his primary opponents pre and post nomination. The addition of 11 million more voters wasn't a sign the GOP was suddenly more popular. Those are Trump's people, and they ain't leavin'.

"Trump's fans condemn violence, but they aren't about to blame him | Reuters" [reuters.com]

[washingtonpost.com]

@JeffMurray This is now but events are still close. After the 20th Trump will no longer have much of a platform. Sure this would have been the case anyway except that now he has no social media outlets. Without 1/6/20 it would have been withering on the vine as he repeated "I wos robbed" as court cases mounted. Now, we have the end result of his ideology to point to. Rather like the Sid Vicious version of "My Way". It is disgusting but its what happens when you go down that anarchistic road.
There will be as there already are many attempts to blame Antifa or BLM for 1/6/20 but as the court cases unfold it will be impossible to maintain. As too will the libel case against Powel by Dominion.

@273kelvin You're assuming NewsMax and OAN will not give him air, and barring that, that he won't create his own media company that a vast majority of his supporters could sign on to? You have to know that's not going to be the case. That other thread by admin you're commenting on already has people from here defending Trump and talking about how it's not fair he's being censored and that it will cause a civil war. He's not going away because his stupid, insane supporters are not going away. They wouldn't believe he was trying to subvert democracy even though he was caught ON TAPE trying to subvert democracy. Then, when asked on camera if he would do it again, HE SAID YES. They still don't believe he was trying to subvert democracy after threatening Georgia officials into changing how the state was voting or even when he riled his supporters into attacking the fucking Capitol. NOTHING can get through to these people. How do you not see that?!

@JeffMurray You guys (present company excepted) used to believe there was WOMD in Iraq.

@273kelvin Who is "you guys" and in the fuck does that have to do with this discussion?!

@JeffMurray "You guys" = America and I did add "Present company excepted". What I meant by that was America has been lied to before and realised that it was bs. I know that the stupid is strong in the Trumpers but the whole thing will get old eventually.

@273kelvin Oh, fair point, but I'm not so sure about the election stealing thing. Even Trump's own "best people" already admitted it was the most secure election ever and they still stormed the Capitol...

@JeffMurray Maybe a criminal trial with Trump allowed to bring evidence of voter fraud might do it. Unlike senate hearings, this would have all the rules of evidence.

@273kelvin How do you even have a criminal trial without filing charges and a grand jury / indictment?
Flowerwall said some nonsense like this, and I said I'd be fine with it if Trump wants to pay for everything up front with the possibility of being reimbursed if he's right. This has been investigated, adjudicated, and even Trump's "best people" said that it was the most secure election in history.

@JeffMurray We accept that but the Trumpers do not. A criminal trial for the phone call and the riot would allow Trumpers to see all his evidence of fraud. No longer could they say that courts refused to hear them. When subject to a public trial, with the full spotlight and cross-examination. Maybe they would acknowledge that it was bs.

@273kelvin you tell some hilarious jokes. He had 60 some opportunities to present evidence and no judge, even ones he appointed, thought he had anything with merit. Additionally, HIS OWN PEOPLE said it was the most secure election in history. He had tons of people actively searching for evidence of voter fraud and that all came up with nothing. He even had a voter fraud hotline and couldn't get any credible evidence of it anywhere. If THAT didn't move the needle for those fuckwits, nothing is going to.
When he was ON TAPE blackmailing a foreign nation to interfere in our election and they didn't think there was any fraud, but here, with no evidence whatsoever, they see enough to commit a terrorist attack? These people are as biased and stupid as they come. You are fucking kidding yourself if you think anything can be done to reason them off this ledge.

@JeffMurray Like I said, we know all this but the MAGAs cling to the lie that the 60 cases were not heard because of procedural/standing issues. In a criminal case, the defendant is entitled to mount a defence and all their so-called evidence of fraud would be admissible. Unlike the Senate hearing, their expert witnesses that claim statistical impossibilities would be subject to cross-examination and rebuttal witnesses. Their sworn affidavits and eyewitnesses open to scrutiny.
A similar thing happened in the UK with Diana's death. It achieved 2 things. Firstly it showed why you should not let grieving relatives near the judicial system. Secondly, it gave a free airing to all the conspiracy theories and let then shrivel in the light of day. Finding eventually that travelling unseatbelted at 80+ mph through a capital city with a chemically impaired driver can prove deadly.

@273kelvin I doubt Diana conspiracy theorists had anywhere near the vested interest MAGAs do. Either way, do you really think we should fabricate a criminal trial out of nothing just to coddle some of the dumbest motherfuckers alive in the US? That's how we should use our justice system? That's the precedent we should set? Are we going to have trials after all of our elections, or only ones where the idiots' candidates lose?
And you've still offered no evidence to suggest that they'd accept anything that didn't conform to their preconceived notions. If the evidence didn't work, they must have hid some, or destroyed it (like the internals of the voting machines), or deemed in inadmissable, or whatever other batshit crazy conspiracy theory "Q" tells them. Dude, these people think Tom Hanks is raping children in the basement of a pizza parlor... that doesn't have a basement. Please, for your own sanity, stop thinking you will ever reason with them.

@JeffMurray How can the trial be fabricated when Trump is put in the dock for his crimes of solicitation of voter fraud and incitement to riot? Trump having to put up or shut up with his fraud claims is a bonus.

@273kelvin Oh, I was imagining you were suggesting something else. But wait, you think we can just mix in some stuff to a criminal trial of Trump?? I mean, that would be worth it to me, but it's even more confusing to me that you think you can solve his mob's frustrations about voter fraud by trying to convict their supreme leader of crimes and throw him in jail, where even if he successfully argued his case and overturned the election, he wouldn't be able to serve his term and his sentence at the same time. Your proposition gets less tenable by the post I'm sorry to say.

Who gained the most? It was no secret that it was going to happen and it was going to fuck up. What may never be known is who let it happen and why? That may be a much larger and widespread act,

There are a bit too many comments on here for me to reply all at the same time. See my latest comment and maybe we can start a thread?

@273kelvin Got it.

Several hours ago I saw the MSNBC and CNN reporting. it said the DC police and Capitol police knew there would be trouble and did nothing to prevent it. MSNBC is repeating it now, so I won’t do a thread here.

They had the guys that conspired to kidnap the Mi gov before the get-go. These Proud Boys are idiots. I would be very astonished and disappointed if there were no undercover FBI guys in that invasion. That said it could have been worse but there seemed no co-ordinated plan.

There are a bit too many comments on here for me to reply all at the same time. See my latest comment and maybe we can start a thread?

Oh, it was an insurrection, no doubt. It was just a crappy insurrection. The idiots that stormed the building were in no doubt this was a revolution. Trump was too busy wanking at his reflection so see how badly this would end.

@273kelvin SURE! Another Dem at it again! Okay so what about all the insurrections that occurred across our nation this year? I think of an insurrection as a planned initial attack that leads to increasing levels of violence and is sustained over a longer period of time- days, weeks, months. Exactly what occurred city after city this year. Why did we then have lawmakers committing open sedition as it relates to that?

@Flowerwall The insurrections have been a consequence of the puss-ball of Trump's divisional populist cult. A Kool-Aid moment was needed to kill it. The invasion was allowed to happen, not to praise Caesar but to bury him.

@273kelvin What's a kool-aid moment? I think your interpretation is wrong - "not to praise Caesar but to bury him." I could be wrong. I suspect something else. I won't repeat it though.

Trump can be labeled as divisional; his presidency certainly makes people takes sides. Do you feel Biden's recent racially divisive rhetoric is better? I just heard Michelle Obama is calling for social media censorship of all things Trump. Is that the message of a unifier who proclaims
"When they go low, we go high"? How would her actions promote goodwill amongst his supporters and the incoming winners of elections? I have appreciated Michelle's message this whole time, but feel she is not living up to it currently. It saddens me. Democrats will win much more support having goodwill and good policy.

There are a bit too many comments on here for me to reply all at the same time. See my latest comment and maybe we can start a thread?

@273kelvin Now am hearing dem news outlets posted about it before it happened..

Of course, the cops were in on it (well some of them). But who allowed it to go ahead? A prima facie case of conspiracy against Trump and the cops is easy. What is less obvious is those in authority who may have known (and who could not see this coming?) yet let it go ahead so it would be an epic fail.

There are a bit too many comments on here for me to reply all at the same time. See my latest comment and maybe we can start a thread?

Watching your countries stupidity.
Trump is an idiot, this much we know but there are others that are not. Can you think of a better exit strategy than what has just occurred?

@273kelvin No, because in the way the others are abandoning the administration they are trying to save themselves and their political futures if any. As for American stupidity, I am shocked that 74 million believe the current nonsense and would abandon our rule of law.

@DenoPenno This was not about winning. This was about damage limitation.

There are a bit too many comments on here for me to reply all at the same time. See my latest comment and maybe we can start a thread?

Some Senate Republicans have endorsed his impeachment but even if most have not. His removal as a force in politics benefits them all. "Jeez, that's really shitty bud. Just wait till I find the rat that snitched on you. Don't worry I will visit you in jail and sure I will take care of Mary"

@273kelvin That wouldn't work, votes are public so no one could pretend they voted different than they did.

@JeffMurray They needed a good reason to jump ship.
Okay, imagine a trophy wife with a prenup. She cannot leave or fuck the pool boy without losing all the money. So she sets hubby up to screw the babysitter in front of the PTA. The divorce judge will set aside the prenup so she can fuck anyone she wants and still play the aggrieved party.

@273kelvin Except the fact that he still has all the money and supporters he had 4 days ago, so the feckless cunts still want to suck his dick just as much as they did before.

@JeffMurray Its not about winning its about damage limitation. The suckers left are the mugs still at the crap game, chasing their losses when the cops come in. All the smart money has left hours ago.
Trump has nearly half of the $300,000,000 "legal fund" but that is listed ascampaign funds. With NY and the feds likely to be on his financial ass, there is no way he can get at it. Meanwhile, the RNC gets the other half, sweet.

@273kelvin Precisely, he has hundreds on millions that can go to campaigns (and I think some debt repayment which will go in his pocket). Even without the money, however, he still dictates how the vast majority of Republican votes will be cast, so enough of them are not going to cross him by voting to remove him from office. While we've been discussing this, CNN just reported the this...
Republican Sen. Pat Toomey says he thinks Trump 'committed impeachable offenses' but is not sure it's practical or desirable to remove him. And that spineless bitch isn't even running for reelection. He's as big of a pussy as Flake.

[cnn.com]

@JeffMurray "He still dictates how the vast majority of Republican votes will be cast" ?? Does he?
Hardcore MAGAs like the proud boys are disgusted at his betrayal in the invaders. MOR Trumpists are ditto at the invaders. Sure there are some die-hards left but his star has fallen big time and the GOP (and the American people) are the winners.

@273kelvin I don't know where you heard that, but while I hope it's true, I have no evidence it is. Everyone I know that supported Trump still supports Trump.

@JeffMurray There are a bit too many comments on here for me to reply all at the same time. See my latest comment and maybe we can start a thread?

@JeffMurray Someone (I think it was "Occupy Democrats" ) showed a video of a proud boy throwing down his Trump flag in disgust. Saying "Fuck you Trump"