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I'm not sure how much longer I can continue living in the US, but I am too adventurous to go back to my home country (UK). I have been seriously thinking about relocating to Iceland since it is one of the most secular nations in the world. I have also considered Uruguay, since it is apparently the most secular nation in South America. Out of curiosity, how many others in this community have moved or would consider moving to other nations purely to get away from religion? What priority do you put on freedom from religion? Is it important enough to move from one nation to another just to get away from a religious population? If there were such a thing as a truly atheist nation, founded specifically on rational, humanistic and scientific principals, and dedicated to becoming a shining example of how a nation SHOULD be run, would you move there? Do you think that such a nation exists or is likely to ever exist?

hardyweinberg 4 July 8
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26 comments

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11

Welcome to the asylum. Enjoy your stay.

You can only do whatever you feel is right for you.
As for me, I am not leaving the US because of any religious nutters.
I'm staying and will do everything I can to fight against the influence of religion on public policy.
I'm all kinds of stubborn that way.

And we all love you exactly the way you are! ❤

Being stubborn / Thick headed is a good thing I always say.

8

I don't let religious people define me. I'm not going to relocate because of them. I never thought of living anywhere outside of the United States. I'm good here.

I hear my money in Thailand makes me a king. I've considered it, but I'm a lazy shit-pile of an American that only knows English.

6

I served this country. I won't be pushed out of it

served? how?

@Jolanta USAF

@redhog So, when was that?

@Jolanta got out in 2000

@redhog Ok, so which wars were you in?

@Jolanta missed the Afghan war by a year. Was peacetime non combat.

@redhog So were you in Afghanistan or not?

@Jolanta was peacetime non combat as I said. That would mean I was not in Afghanistan

5

The San Francisco Bay Area is the least religious place I’ve been. I’ll stay.

5

I just went to Iceland. It's delightful! I would move there in a heartbeat, but I don't know how that could be accomplished. I would move, not just to get free from religion, but to free myself from American "values" and the fact that it is fast becoming a fascist regime.

Fast becoming? Ffs it's been that way & religious nutters from earliest settlement from Europeans.

By the way did you visit Iceland in summer or winter when it's perpetually dark, freezing cold & covered in snow? How far out of Reykjavik did you get?

@FrayedBear I just went, from May 5th to the 16th. It was somewhat cold, but the days were pretty long, around 21 hours. Reykjavik was 50 degrees the day I left, but up north near the Arctic Circle, it was in the 30s, with snow. My friend and I drove all around the whole perimeter of the island.

@Organist1 A beautiful country. I visited the SE 50 years ago during summer. We camped on the volcanic ice cap. Fascinating cooking our breakfast bake bean tins in hot mud pools overnight at 4000 feet. Saw the midnight sun.

4

I could live in several places outside of the USA but I have never considered it for religious reasons or secular freedom.

4

I have a rather wide variety of friends . For the most part religion does not play a part in our friendships . Some have told me they're Christian , or Jewish , or Wacian , or atheists , or the flying spaggetti and meatball monster , but it doesn't really go beyond that for my friends . We have other interests that we do share . I think there are multiple reasons for choosing which country you would be most happy living in . I would not want to see a Trump like dictator , for instance , or weather matching Alaska or Siberia . I would not wish to live in a vastly over populated area such as New York City , or New Delhi , India . There are way too many poison critters , and mice, crocks, etc. in the outback of Australia , although I hear it has some spectacular scenery . I'm not suited for the life style of Los Vegas or Reno . I don't think I could afford Hong Kong or Silicon Valley . So I'd suggest you look at more than just the religion as your choice of residence .

3

“Nations” have nothing to do with how humans behave. Evolution has everything to do with how humans behave, and we all evolved from the same pool. There is no “getting away” from human nature.

What other people believe religiously does not concern me. What concerns me is their political beliefs. When democracy falls to authoritarianism (which can happen anywhere) then I may try to inconspicuously inch toward the door. But I am well-practiced at surfing the waves of religious fanaticism, having grown up in the Bible Belt. Just say “Amen Brother” and keep smiling. 😁

skado Level 9 July 22, 2021
3

I fail to understand your problem. I have never been bothered by religion, or religious people.

& yet you openly support the genocide of the religious around the world
"Is America & its citizens hated or loved by Earth inhabitants around the world?"

@FrayedBear Your comment is based on what? You get more rdiculous on a daily basis.

@Alienbeing If you cannot be bothered reading the report by the former Reagan advisor you prove the irrationality of your question.

Incidentally is a rdiculous related to a ranunculus?

@FrayedBear Learn to read. I didn't ask you what was in the report I CLEARLY asked you how you arrived at the conclusion that I support "the genocide of the religious around the world" as you put it.

@Alienbeing You still think America has the right to bully & commit genocide around the world the way it does.

@FrayedBear I never said that nor do I endorse that. Your comment is totally incorrect. As I suspected, you are merely shouting into the wind.

3

How are you so bothered by your local religiosity that you would consider moving somewhere else? I came here 47 years ago from Germany. Religion never played a role in my decision-making since I was a teenager and opted out of religious classes. I studied religion for 2 semesters in school. That was the inoculation I needed. I wish you luck in your plans. If you study history, you'll find that Turkey was a non-religious nation about 100 years ago, just like the Soviet countries, but religion crept back in because people wanted it. I would look for communities that made the decision to be secular. Best wishes!

3

I built hotels before retiring early so I lived in many places over the years besides my native Canada, the longest was on the island country of Bermuda but we spent several years living and traveling in South America as well. Uruguay was very progressive and we found much of Argentina and Chile to be similar but our favourite country was Ecuador where we lived on and off for two years.
The Catholic Church is deeply entrenched in Latin America and although there is a continuing move away from the church by the younger generations it is still an underpinning of everything that happens there. Seeing the huge cathedrals that are usually built on indigenous temple foundations and dripping with gold inside while beggars crowd the steps out front is something that always filled me with disgust.
Mexico is another country we lived and traveled in for a couple of years and we still consider returning there to live but it crawls with Gringos from the USA and they bring their crazy political and cultural views with them so we tend to stay away from any areas in Mexico that cater to tourists and where many speak English, far better to struggle with our Spanish and avoid the Yanquees.
I don't think you can ever really escape religious influence on this planet, even Iceland has recently brought back the old Norse gods as an official religion but there are places where religion plays less of a role in daily life and not surprisingly those countries tend to be the happiest places to live.
[worldpopulationreview.com]

3

Apropos of John Lennon's song, IMAGINE, thank you for imagining and voicing your take on how a country, ideally, should be. If more and more people could form and express this, then just maybe, in time, this could come about.

The planet needs this. Living beings, including humans, need this. Religion stands in the way. Religion is yesterday. It is holding us back from creating a Nirvana on our beautiful planet, Earth. We could have a big project where we would all cite the various things religion does to harm the world.

In the meantime, we could all IMAGINE the various things that our world can be without religion.

3

If you are fed up with religious rubbish, the US is the last place on earth you want to live in. Even in Islamic countries do they not carry on like they do in the US about religion. However all that is something one can ignore, it takes time and a certain mindset though, not easy to get to. You have to weigh up the pros and cons before you make any move.

I think I'd rather live in the United States than in Australia. I never thought about it until I joined this group. Australians hate America. Sad but true.

@barjoe America has done sweet fanny Adams for Australia other than help defeat the Japanese in WWII.
They have been allowed to encircle the country with radio stations proselytising 24/365 a year the god bothering claptrap.
The CIA is known to have brought down non sympathetic governments. Undermine free trade dump excess product at the expense of Australian producers, develop destructive mining practices, make Australia a prime target fo nuclear strike through its Pine Gap spy installation. The list goes on and on.
Your observation simply proves the point.
However have you read the Lee Camp article that I have just posted? "Information for those living in the land of the free - a bloody big laugh for the rest of the world?"

@barjoe that must be why many former prime ministers & foreign ministers have brown noses from being up American arses.

@FrayedBear HELPED defeat Japan? Okay. We helped. At least you admit you Australians hate the USA.

@barjoe Not all Australians. As I point out there are numerous brown nosed sycophants.

@FrayedBear so, you are saying Aussies have no sense of humor?

@Canndue lol, have you not watched the Australian Honest Government Adverts?

Try

Or

I even include one in my profile but that may be too hard for you to read.

@barjoe Where did you get that idea from that we hate you? We think you have some crazy ideas about religion, war and that you think you are the best in the world, but no we do not hate you.

@Jolanta Australians in general no. Some of the Aussies on this site, yes. To say United States is worse than the Islamic world is totally wrong. I take offense to that. There is a fascist element in America as there is in Australia. Most people from both countries are not. Muslim countries are generally Islamic terrorist states and most of their people are radicalized supporters of terrorism.

@barjoe How many Islamic countries have you been to? On what scale is the US worse than Islamic world, what are we talking about?

@Jolanta "Even in Islamic countries do they not carry on like they do in the US about religion." I'm quoting you. I hear Anti-American, racist and antisemitic rhetoric from Arab immigrants in my city. Neighbors and people I worked with. I know those thoughts are mainstream among them and I assume it's even worse inside the Mohammedan world.

@barjoe lol Joe. Unless your country is killing them, robbing them or just swamped their tv programming with one of those shows that flaunt American wealth, mansions & extravagance, I suspect that most people living in Islamic countries never talk about you let alone know where you are!

@barjoe so you have no experience of anywhere else but the US then.

@FrayedBear They're fanatical Muslims. People only acquiesce to them out of fear. Like in France. They're savage animals.

@Jolanta What difference does that make? I have 50 states here to see. I have all I need right here.

@barjoe Sounds like you're projecting US behaviour Joe.

@FrayedBear We're not the ones who behead teachers, slaughter editorial staff, run planes into skyscrapers. Who else runs suicide missions believing in 70 virgins in the afterlife? Some of these crazy Muslim are "Americans".

@barjoe Your country's military member's war crimes are legion. Your country's incarceration of citizens exceeds even that of China. Your numbers so called humanely executed probably equals the numbers beheaded in Islamic states. 9/11 - what aeroplanes?
Get with reality Joe! How many Americsns are shot by other Americans? How many American blacks are murdered by American policeman? Policemen who until recently were not even charged let alone convicted?
How do you know that the murder of media people was not false news like the "weapons of mass destruction" claim used to invade Iraq?
What of the crimes against humanity through the use of depleted uranium in shells?

@FrayedBear Hating on America with your Russian propaganda.

@barjoe What Russian propaganda? You have obviously never been anywhere, anywhere at all. Have no experience of any other culture or political system.

@Jolanta It was a joke in response to Fred's comment. He's a fan of Russia. I've never left the Western hemisphere. That's not important. What difference does it make where I have been?

@barjoe travel broadens the mind & enables the observer to get behind the indoctrination they have been subjected to & believe in so they can formulate their own truth & not that of others wanting to control them.

@barjoe Who is Fred?

@FrayedBear Frayed

@FrayedBear Most people just buy souvenirs and sample the local cuisine. Either that or they are pursuing employment. Nobody controls my thought process, I don't support my country blindly but I will defend it against ridiculous claims.

@barjoe produce your evidence to refute the claims then Joe instead of your blind attacks.

@barjoe 2 letters short of "Frayed" - a new take on "2 bob short of a quid" or "10 cents short of a dollar!"

LMAO ROFL

Thanks Joe, a wonderful start to my day & humbling but funny haha identification of my lack of nouse in recognising the typo!

@FrayedBear I refute your claim that Charlie Hebdo might have been "false news". Really? Claiming that planes weren't driven into WTC Twin Towers and the Pentagon. C'mon! America has its flaws but they don't justify Islamic terrorism against western countries. There is zero justification for that.

@barjoe

@barjoe Joe! What about the terrorism perpetrated around the world by America? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

@FrayedBear What about?

@barjoe point a finger at anywhere on the globe & the probability is that the US has commited crimes against humanity there. The same terrorism that you accuse others of committing.

@FrayedBear Say it. You hate America.

@barjoe Why would I waste my time futilely hating? Can't you understand that I love you Joe by trying to get you to see the reality not the indoctrination that they have fed you?

@FrayedBear No. I can't see it. Thanks for the love.

@barjoe Of course there are fanatical Islamist, just like there are fanatical Republicans who try to storm the DC and kill democrats. Same, same.

The Muslims killed 3,000 on 9/11. The Christians killed a cop, got a girl killed and 3 of their own died of heart attacks on 1/6. Exactly the same. .

@barjoe And how many have America killed in retaliation? Half a million ? One million? 3 million? The total is not known because of the contamination left through radio active dust from shells will continue to cause many deaths for thousands of years.
[breitbart.com]

But here is a good reason for America to be hated Joe -
the murderous sanctions imposed against numerous countries. Non involved countries are enforced into compliance as a result of the American bully's threat of doing the same to any country breaking the embargos -

[original.antiwar.com]

To quote from the report:

"In recent years, the U.S. government has turned starvation into official policy. Determined to force hostile states to bend to its will, Washington increasingly imposes economic sanctions, using America’s financial dominance to penalize foreign individuals, companies, and even governments. "

"Among its prime targets were Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Syria, and Venezuela. The objective was to wreak economic destruction – and the policy succeeded in that sense. These nations all suffered increased hardship. Yet the people who suffered the most were at the bottom economically. Regime elites usually lost some access to excess, including foreign bank accounts and the luxuries which depended on those funds."

"Moreover, in not one case did the Trump administration achieve its political ends. Communists, including nominally retired Raul Castro, still run Cuba. Tehran refused to surrender its foreign policy to Washington. North Korea’s Kim Jong-un did not make his nuclear weapons available for transport to the US In Syria Bashar al-Assad refused to yield power. So, too, Venezuela’s Nicolas Maduro. Washington 0, Rogue States 5."

"As has become common, Washington applied its rules to everyone else on the planet, effectively cutting Syria off from much of the world economy."

"Jeffrey was refreshingly honest in admitting that sanctions were intended to hurt Russians, not help Syrians: "My job is to make it a quagmire for the Russians." The Syrian people were but a convenient means to an administration policy end. If that meant prolonging their suffering even after the guns had stopped firing, so be it."

"Madeleine Albright is responsible for a string of arrogant and thoughtless comments on foreign policy. Perhaps her most famous gaffe – that is, telling an inconvenient truth – was her response to a question about the death of a half million Iraqi babies due to sanctions: "We think the price is worth it," she said. That extraordinarily callous attitude evidently persists in Washington today regarding Syria."

"Diplomacy should be the main tool with which Washington addresses the world. That might frustrate US officials, since they would lose their ability to play Masters of the Universe. However, America as global dictatress has not delivered the sort of peaceful order that Washington policymakers claim to desire."

"Joe Biden ran for president as an advocate of human rights. Yet he, like Trump, has cruelly sacrificed the interests foreign peoples, such as those in Syria, to score political points. America should do better."

The author of the above is not an RT contributor nor is the article published by that media organisation. The author "Doug Bandow is a Senior Fellow at the Cato Institute. He is a former Special Assistant to President Ronald Reagan and the author of several books, including Foreign Follies: America’s New Global Empire."

[original.antiwar.com]

What value @Barjoe your: "The Muslims killed 3,000 on 9/11. The Christians killed a cop, got a girl killed and 3 of their own died of heart attacks on 1/6." and "No.I can't see it now"?

@FrayedBear Your previous answer speaks for itself. If you go to the US you will find the citizens friendly and helpful until you mention something about religion or the US foreign policy then they become nasty, belligerent and down right violent. That is my experience from visiting there.

@Jolanta lol I've just had @JeffMurray tell me in Oz Sceptics on this issue " I don't think they think they're doing anything wrong, or at least not something they could do differently" to which my response ended with "It is easy for America to do something different - don't be fucking selfish greedy bullying inhumane cunts."

@Jolanta How do you like return to lockdown? I vaguely heard that a removalist has brought the delta variant into Victoria so I can see that we will be going back to lockdown if we haven't already done so whilst I was asleep!

@FrayedBear I actually don’t have any experience of lockdown. When it was on here in Canberra I was on a cruise. I very much doubt that it will happen here. We don’t have any active Covid cases and let us hope we won’t get any. The police is very vigilant and so are the hotels. Quilt a few people have been escorted out of ACT. One woman was put in jail too.

@Jolanta . . . "in jail"? Have been being naughty?

2

Why would you want to continue living in a country that teaches children that people are systematically racist , ( critical race theory).Citizens that elect a senile bloke as president and embrace a destructive hate group called BLM that riots and destroys without consequences.A president that embraces an Olympic athlete representing the US that does not respect their national anthem, dummies that want to defund the police that protect them ,and erect statues of criminals . An incompetent incoherent president that has a racist , anti-Semitic,hate monger homophobic, tax dodger Sharpton as a guest in the White House . A country that has an alarming increase in crime in major cities but continues to elect Democrats that do nothing to stop it . I would rather be here in a less religious UK.

2

I moved to the Portland/Vancouver area in part to be closer to my sister, and also because at the time the cost of living was lower than it was in the Los Angeles area. It was by accident that I was also moving to the least religious major city area of the U.S. Didn't plan it, but it was a happy coincidence. On the downside the area also has a quite a few of the Apostolic which are really out there far wight wing religious nuts, who shun education. They are the largest cult like religion, and by cult like I mean virtually every member is a uneducated fanatic.

However, religion is on the decline virtually everywhere in the world. I see no need to move to avoid the religious.

2

Originally from Croatia I’ve spent 30+ years in NYC area. At some point I was exploring SF/Bay area and Austin,Tx to relocate but I’m glad I didn’t. I’m thinking about becoming ‘snow bird’ between Canada and Uruguay but not bc religion…good luck wherever you go

2

I think all the time about moving somewhere in Scandinavia- Norway perhaps, but I'm sure I could never afford to do so.

2

It seems that you are trying to go away from religious places?

It is true that the UK is less religious than the US is. But it depends on what pocket you will find to live. Both countries have very progressive, non-religious communities and very religious ones too. So if religion is the only reason,a place will not solve the problem.

However, we all start thinking about maintaining good health after 60. It starts becoming a big issue.UK has free health care. Are you qualified to get it free from the NIH? If so, the choice is clear. The UK is a better place. I have not seen many people from the UK migrating to the US.

Are Uruguay and places like it good options for health care, safety? It might seem nice from TV and YouTube shows.

When I was a teenager overseas, there was an affluent family in town. A rich man married to a popular and beautiful movie actress. My parents talked about them, the town talked about them. When I was in college, we started hearing about their only son starting to win tennis championships at local and state levels. A handsome dude. He married the woman tennis champion in town. Their news flashed in newspaper headlines every other month. All was enviable. Lots of properties and resources at hand. He was above my league, never met him. But 30 years later, he found me through a link to a friend on Facebook and called me from Georgia state. I asked him... "What are you doing here?" He said... "I am now settled here." I asked.. "How come? You have so much to take care of back home." He said... "That is true but I need dialysis and the town back home does not have it. I cannot return."... At 63, suddenly health became the biggest issue.

I have a very real problem with your story on dialysis. If the man is rich the cost of home dialysis machine is anywhere between $500 DIY through $3000 secondhand to $45,000 top of the line. Session costs of hiring a nurse about $50 per session.
I suggest that your new found acquaintance is in need of an enema - he's full of shit!

[howmuchisit.org]

@FrayedBear

It is possible that there is something more he did not tell me. The moral is he has medical dependencies for which he does not feel comfortable with living in his town.

@St-Sinner Ie. A selfish stupid person. Is it one of the reasons why you can be allowed into the US for residency?

@FrayedBear

Possibly, But who knows? He maybe playing it smart. There maybe other complications he is worried about. There must be more to the story. I do not know it all but what he said sounded right. My father could not get a simple kidney medication 40 years ago in my town, he died in the next town. My sister died 5 years ago even in Mumbai due to below par care. My friend had a kidney procedure last year in a town very far. My brother in PA and I recently talked and agreed that we both would be dead by now had we not left India.

That's why I often defend the medical care in the US because we don't know how bad it is around the world. US health care is expensive, often exploitative and we can still make it better like in some Nordic countries but the quality we offer with strong malpractice protections is pretty good.

@St-Sinner that is one of the problems of our national medical system - lack of accountability, political decisions designed to garner local votes and disadvantageous nepotism resulting in inferior decisions & practice. In the non city areas parochial disadvantage is frequent.

@FrayedBear
Is anything perfect anywhere?

@St-Sinner Castro tried in Cuba but I suspect that American sanctions since 1962 have been incredibly deleterious.

1

The USA is a very large nation with many varied cultural difference. We are a nation that permits all kind of cults to declare religions exemptions. But it was founded upon the idea of that freedom. Tolerate & endure that others may tolerate & endure us. Our government can not impose upon you a religion. It can not require you to pray, attend religious instruction, force that on our posterity. It more or less originated here. And you are free to move anywhere to escape an intolerant atmosphere. Do some research into Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont. Least religious of the states. Iceland has a high suicide rate. Plus its shrinking & is volcanic.

1

I would not live anywhere but in the USA. There are so many diverse climates, cultures, tax laws that one can choose where the fit is. Be as religious as one wants sans shoving it down my throat. I love this nation as it has permitted me to change the laws that shackled my quest for wealth building. I love that I can struggle to move this nation forward & see the fruits of that struggle. There is more work to be done to form a more perfect union for us & our posterity.

The USA is both hated & loved. Hated for the right reasons & loved for the right reasons. We are diverse & flawed, but the idea of self governance is embraced by most of the world. We must keep working toward that end despite our past crimes, & attempt to mend our ways as history teaches us.

1

The only way I would move because of religion would be if I lived in a theocratic country. I live in a very staunchly Christian area, but it doesn't bother me that I do.

Deb57 Level 8 July 8, 2021
1

I think it depends where in the US you are. You are in Columbus, Ohio? Ooo yeah.. No bueno. Try Oakland, CA or New York City...

1

As a diabetic I couldn't afford to live in the US. I've always fancied spending some time in Holland but I guess I'm less adventurous. I'm sure religion is in decline and that it's only a matter of time before we move on from that as a species. However it'll probably be a few centuries more and likely as not countries will be run by dogmatists and ideologues for some time even if they're of a different stripe than the religious. (After who else would want to run a country?)
I don't know about an atheist nation but there's certainly been an atheist tribe. [patheos.com]

0

Definitely looking into living abroad. Amsterdam was my first choice, based on the freethinkers there, but I'm now moving towards finding a low cost of living base; I can then travel from there more affordably.

Right now (the decision is still a couple of years away), I'm looking at Mexico as a base. Catholic, but not necessarily evangelical type Catholic. The area I'm looking is more a "live and let live" chill vibe, and the people seem to behave more like actual Christians than the crap we see in the US. I'm totally cool with "Christian behavior" as long as they leave me tf alone, lol.

0

Hi there. if you are adventurous, why not consider moving out of the West? Live in Japan for example. 🙂

Ryo1 Level 8 July 9, 2021

A Caucasian friend of mind did that. Was back in 6 months. Never met more racist folks he said. "If the nail sticks up, pound it down" to paraphrase a Japanese saying. I've traveled to the mid east, Europe, Mexico & I love visiting their delightful cultures. The USA is where the freedoms I value are still more important than my distaste for the failings.

@Mooolah How long ago was that?! "If the nail sticks up, pound it down." Yes, I've heard that expression many times, and according to my friends in Japan, that concept may still be held by older generations but not so much by younger generations. Sadly, we have racists all over the world, and since I usually refrain myself from genralisation and stereotyping, plus, my Japanese friends are not racist, I wouldn't say the Japanese are racist.

@Ryo1 I am relieved to hear that Japan has made much progress in tolerance. It was a long time ago. Now I hope we may do the same in this country where we have an abundance of work to form a "more perfect union". Where I no longer am an activist as I once was, having passed that torch to the posterity, I am now in a position to fund activism as those before me, funded mine. Pay it forward & give back.

@Mooolah Yes, I believe that Japanese society has become more accommodating. For example, they provide pray rooms for Muslims nowadays. The thing is, those spaces are often mistaken as resting rooms by Japanese elderly people. They are often seen having a nap in those rooms. Lol

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