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What we are, who we are, who we are because of what we are or what we are because of who we are?

What is intrinsic or extrinsic about who or what we are?

Definition of intrinsic
1a: belonging to the essential nature or constitution of a thing
the intrinsic worth of a gem
the intrinsic brightness of a star
b: being or relating to a semiconductor in which the concentration of charge carriers is characteristic of the material itself instead of the content of any impurities it contains
2a: originating or due to causes within a body, organ, or part
an intrinsic metabolic disease
b: originating and included wholly within an organ or part
intrinsic muscles
— compare EXTRINSIC sense 1b
[merriam-webster.com]

Definition of extrinsic
1a: not forming part of or belonging to a thing : EXTRANEOUS
b: originating from or on the outside
especially : originating outside a part and acting upon the part as a whole
extrinsic muscles of the tongue
2: EXTERNAL
[merriam-webster.com]

Word 8 July 18
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remember when you looked in a mirror and did not recognize your "self?"
you made that guy up! 🙂

Was I once a zygote and by chemical reactions of my D.N.A., I think I did make myself up into trillions of cells.

@Word not sure if that is a "yes" or a "no," sorry

as to your subject change, seems to me that everyone undergoes that unconsciously anyway, so wadr i don't think you did!

@bbyrd009 don't recall looking in mirror and not recognizing, that's why I explain about making myself up from zygote

@Word i realize you don't recall not seeing yourself, sure; although the memory is buried in there somewhere 🙂

but the point was that you separated yourself all by yourself, basically
i think

@bbyrd009 why does that have me recall an old time country gospel song? The part where they sing ...Well, I walk in the air between the rain
Through myself and back again
Where? I don't know

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There are things which are intrinsic to our nature, and extrinsic.
But ANYTHING we think or do is INTRINSIC to our ability to do an infinite number of things given a certain set of circumstances.
Therefore WHO we are and WHAT we are are both identically our INTRINSIC selves. We are not one because of the other. And neither one is knowable. In a sense we are who we say we are, and are what we say we are.
So you question makes little or no sense, unless you can more clearly define it.
Who we are and what we are, though, while both our intrinsic selves, HAS no explanation. You might as well be asking who or what 'god' is. It's simply unknowable.

I agree with almost everything you said and tried to say more or less the same thing. The only part is the 'we are what we say we are' that depending on how you meant it is objectionable.

So, I could say I am a God because that is who and what I am? But, you say it is unknowable for me to know myself to call my self what ever I am for who ever I am as what ever I am?

Does a dog know that we call it as a "what" it is? Dog, does not know much of our language,. But, Spot, the dog could know its name when I call Spot. However, Sally the dog, has learned to not move when I call Spot the dog.

I think there is some way of explaining that Spot and Sally knows what they are, even thought they do not know what they are in our language.

What about the ugly duckling story? Is it about a swan that thought it was a duck? Turns out it wasn't a duck, and just because it thought itself was a duck, didn't make it a duck.

And that's why I objected to the 'we are who/what we say we are' part... 🤦♀️

@admin is there anything you can do about the gender emoji showing up after the facepalm emoji? 🤦♀️

" In a sense we are who we say we are, and are what we say we are."
hmm, in what sense, iyo? In my experience everyone, including me, reps themselves...ideally?

@JeffMurray I guess my thinking and meaning was muddled. Maybe I was saying, I, for one, have a certain self-concept. IT (the self-concept) is me TO me. YOUR self-concept is, to you, YOU.
Of course we could delude ourselves into a false self-concept, but for sane human beings (like both of us) our self-concept is a fair representation of who we are. If some other people disagree with our self-evaluations, THEY are probably wrong, because their perception is incomplete and superficial, amounting to only a snapshot of one aspect of us. WE have a much deeper perspective, of course.
Therefore WHO and WHAT we are are perhaps slightly different ways of expressing how we arrive at our subjective opinions of ourselves. WHO implies consciousness. We are a 'mind' and 'soul.'
WHAT implies our physical collection of atoms arranged in a specific way to make up our material bodies, including our brains.
So, our OVERALL self-perception includes both WHO and WHAT we are, our WHO being the essential aspect.
(I feel like I should be smoking a joint.)

@Storm1752 Nope. That makes perfect sense. And that's why I said depending on how you meant it. So it turns out I did agree with everything you've said (minus the word 'soul' 😝). Well stated. Too bad it was lost on the OP.

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It’s too hot too worry about it today…my brain is already in meltdown in sympathy with my body!

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I see no difference between "who" and "what" you are...

It is said I am human. Human is who I am? My name is Shannon. Who am I?

@Word A name (or a taxonomic classification) is not who or what something is, it's an agreed-upon, man-made construct, a method of communication.

@JeffMurray to name me homo sapian communicates what to you?

@Word To name you "homo saipan," I assume after a taxonomic classification, communicates to me your parents were super weird, (not to mention bad at spelling). My assumptions based on the fact that we're communicating tells me much more than that. However, none of it changes anything about who/what you are.

@JeffMurray you think my parents were above supernatural?

weird
/wird/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
suggesting something supernatural; uncanny.
"the weird crying of a seal"

Super weird, it's super supernatural?

@Word Then there are those that are intentionally obtuse. Seems like that's more "who/what you are" than anything else.

@JeffMurray so, weird as being obtuse is about being an extra ordinary character in witchcraft and supernatural?

@JeffMurray obtuse - annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.

Who is being annoyingly insensitive calling someone weird?

@Word I'm done with this nonsense.

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Popeye "I am what I am".

azzow2 Level 9 July 18, 2021
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