Insects? How about all the adorable squirrels, chipmunks, bunnies, geese, turtles, etc. that get run over every minute. How about all of the animals that die as a result of deforestation to plant crops and to build roads to drive those crops to market? How about all of the animals that die from our pollution and garbage? The very existence of human life is antithetical to the reduction of suffering for just about every other living thing on the planet.

@JeffMurray I'll happily buy your line.

@anglophone Fuck, now I want an Arby's roast beef smothered in Arby's sauce.

@JeffMurray I'll see your roast beef, and I'll raise you pork tenderloin.

@anglophone See that!

@anglophone I do my pork tenderloin with port wine reduction, how about you?

@JeffMurray Sometimes with an orange sauce, sometimes with a plum sauce, and occasionally with a mild mustard sauce. Yum!

Didn't you ever hear a carrot cry when you cut it open?

@barjoe: No. Plants, unlike animals, have no brains and no consciousness. I eat plants without any unnecessary sympathy.

@BestWithoutGods Eventually there will be cultured meat. That might differentiate animal rights from health concerns people. Given problematic invasive animals conservation and animal rights can be at odds too. Hog hunting is a conservation benefit, but hogs are extremely intelligent animals…

@Scott321 if you have never tried Impossible Meat, it's soy based, and really good.

@BestWithoutGods Deforestation for, cultivation, harvesting, and transportation of vegetables causes the death and suffering of animals as well. It is quite possible that someone who hunts a deer or raises a cow for slaughter and grows his own vegetables kills WAY fewer animals than most vegetarians. Categorical elimination of animal products from your diet is not the best path to reduce animal suffering.

If there was no market for chicken meat, there would be many fewer chickens in this world.

@Willow_Wisp @anglophone
I'm wondering if that was a tongue-in-cheek comment, because I've not known Willow to make a logically indefensible argument in earnest.

@JeffMurray I enjoy @Willow_Wisp's gentle humour.

@JeffMurray Well I'm not known for my lack of practicality.

I've been a non-red meat eater for most of my life, having given it up on my 18th birthday. I think I'm much healthier for it, and don't have the guilt of harming the environment, or sentient mammals.

@Organist1 I've had an imagination for years that cows are my relatives. There's definitely something to the idea.

Of course there is. They don't have brains or central nervous systems.

@LovinLarge You assume life forms need brains or a nervous system to be sentient....can you offer any scientific evidence that “proves” this?!

What happens when we discover plants can communicate suffering (spoiler, some scientists say they already have)?
Give Jainism a go?

@JeffMurray I must eat to survive & plants have son sensory attributes . However they are not highly developed & plants are where the nutrition I need. Not corporate food sources that manipulate us with sugar laden death products. 3 Whoppers a day with chees, fries & a super sized coca cola is not nutrition. Gluttony, satiation, addiction & manipulation are killing Americans. Obesity, diabetes, pancreatitis, are the results. We are ancient Rome redux.

Nor me!

its also the healthy road. i live on the filet wrapped "natural" salmon and talapia from walmarts seafood freezer. schrimp too for a change up. live long and prosper

@holdenc98 Yeah the secondary reason is health, though shellfish is unfortunately off the menu due to allergies.

Did I say anything about money anywhere in my post ? Nope learn to read please and think before you comment.

Half of most of my meals are vegan, too. The half of the plate that has the baked potato and asparagus sides for my grilled ribeye!

@JeffMurray lol! well that is one way to interpret my statement.

@Donna_I And I guess even my joke was a lie. I forgot I never eat baked potatoes vegan. I smother them in butter and sour cream, sometimes add bacon and cheese too.

Why couldn't Dexter be a vegan or vegetarian just because he kills humans. Human beings are a plague the most violent destructive creatures and mostly driven by greed.

@JeffMurray well you can always have a salad with a vegan dessing to make it up! or just step back to a half vegetarian meal (if you leave the bacon off).

@dextermorgan75 He could be but as a sociopath I would think it wouldn't be for altruistic motives after all the code from his dad was because he was caught killing animals as a kid.

I'll take a cheesesteak over a Cuban steak sandwich any day of the week.

@barjoe I’m fine with a good Philly too.

@Scott321 You have to be up here to have a good one as I assume a Cuban sandwich in Miami is better than one up here. We don't call them a Philly tho.

@barjoe I have family that lived in Trevose (outside Philly) but I visited in late 80s.

@Scott321 Lower Bucks County

@barjoe I don't believe in the whole 'you have to be [here] to get a good [food]' argument. I went to Mexico and left the resort to get authentic Mexican, but the best I ever had was in Painesville, Ohio. If you're good in the kitchen and you can source the ingredients you need, it doesn't matter where that kitchen is.
Also, the Super Philly at Tommy's Subs in Mentor, Ohio are fuckin' killer.
And if pigs have to die so that I can continue to eat Cuban sandwiches, then that's the way its gotta be.

@JeffMurray Tommy's Subs might be good. They had good rolls in Cleveland. My friend was from Parma Ohio and her parents had a place called Longo's, they had good hoagies, but not as good as Philly. No way their "Super Philly" is authentic, it might be good tho.

@barjoe "Authentic" is another thing I don't put too much stock in. I know I used that word earlier, but that was probably misused. For me, if something tastes better than the "traditional" or "authentic" version, that sounds good to me. So if a cheesesteak has melted cream cheese in it (how I make them at home) instead of Cheese Whiz and it tastes way better, I'm not really concerned some people call it inauthentic.

Longo's is pretty tasty. I used to live a 5 min walk from the one in Mentor.

@JeffMurray Longo's is still there? Wow! Whiz blows Jeff! A cheese steak should be fried onions and cheese. White American (never yellow), Cooper Sharp or Provolone and hot peppers if you like them. No sauce, green peppers any of that stuff. Cream Cheese? No way. Only on a bagel.

@barjoe See, this is what I'm talking about. Everyone has their own idea of how it should be made, but "traditional" has Cheese Whiz according to Wiki.
Personally, I'm onions, green peppers, steak on a toasted hoagie with cream cheese that melts into a cheesy sauce, then melted provolone over it all. I would never put Whiz on mine.

[en.m.wikipedia.org]

And only bagels? Come on bro. There are a million dips that have a cream cheese base and tons of other dishes & desserts that have it as well.

@JeffMurray There's a right way to make a cheesesteak and then there's a bogus way. No fucking cream cheese on a steak sandwich. If you want to make it that way at home, that's you but no self respecting restaurant should serve that.

@barjoe Have you tried it? There are plenty of people that will tell you your way is wrong too and that it has to have Whiz.

@JeffMurray Whiz blows. Pat's and Geno's named in Wikipedia both blow. Other parts of Pennsylvania make cheesesteaks with sauce and bell peppers. In Philadelphia a cheesesteak comes with or without onions, that's it. I guess cream cheese is better than whiz but it should be White American or Provolone. Yellow American is for places like McDonald's. I'm very opinionated about this stuff.

@barjoe Everybody is. That's what I'm saying. My point was, what came first isn't better by default. I'd venture to guess that it's almost always worse because letting the rest of the world trial and error your recipe will most likely result in some improvement. Like right now, the thought of a melty white American over a stringy provolone sounds amazing to me. I never thought to do that, but I'm definitely going to try it. I strongly recommend you try a light smear of cream cheese on one or part of one the next time you make them. It might surprise you, but if not, no big deal, right?

Also, for clarification, I did mine with cream cheese AND provolone.

@JeffMurray I used to have customers order American and provolone mixed on a cheesesteak. It's delicious. I have other rules. Cheesesteak should be thinly sliced ribeye or sirloin, processed steak meat like Steak-um or Philly Gourmet is garbage. Steaks shouldn't be finely chopped, the good places don't do that. If you do use cream cheese (shudder) I assume you apply it to the roll and don't mix it with the meat. That's another no no. Cheese should be melted in top, not incorporated with the meat. So if you do the American and Provolone, use white American, yellow is fugazi.

@JeffMurray
Being childfree? I got that covered.

@Scott321 It's also the best thing you can do for the environment by a factor of 25. Any time someone with kids tells me I shouldn't be driving a supercharged Cobra or I should be recycling, I get to tell them to go fuck themselves because they're way worse for the environment than I could ever be.

I also feel some bacon is not fit for my plate, I prefer all the bacon.

@JeffMurray I have to have a big enough plate so all the bacon will fit, for my consumption.

I pass by fort Collins five days a week going to work in Colorado springs