So I guess you think the millions of people who are pouring over the border at his invitation whom we will have to take care of are needed? That crooked senile SOB Biden is a serial liar so what are you talking about??

@Trajan61 so you are a native American? They are the only people who have legal claim to this land we invaded... you are the absolute epitome of an angry loser. Sad you waste so much energy hating other humans...

@Trajan61 This nitwit says he speaks in complete and correct sentences LOL, this proves that the fools that like him are more delusional than he is .

That would disqualify most of the liberal left wing idiots.

Same here

Yes, we have the imbecile republicans scream how we are being invaded. But, at the same time many progressive democrats think we have unlimited room for all the worlds desperate and needy people. Neither is even close to the truth. It is these kinds of polarized lies that have gotten this country (and a few other developed countries) where we are today and I pity the future generations because we constantly use emotional hype for deal with a critical issue that requires simple reason.

@JackPedigo Well Sen. Johnson said, I think, 2.3 million border crossings of undocumented in 1 year. Mayorjas thinks this constitutes a closed border. Sen. Johson is correct to thinl this a ridiculous statement Mayorkas is making. Why can't we have sane laws and foreign policy that favor safe, lawful immigration and strongly encourage/demand foreign nations abide by a domestic plan that will ensure their OWN domestic tranquility and lessen the neccesity of immigration? Why?

@Flowerwall That is a question many fail to even ask. Used to be population growth (from any source) was a critical subject. Then around 2000 some industries got involved and decided it was best to have a cheap and pliable work force so they paid off 2 organizations (ZPG and the Sierra Club) to remove immigration from it's population formula). More and more other organizations have been playing a tit for tat game with industries and so this subject has become very polarized. When emotions enter the picture reason leaves and that is where we are today.

@JackPedigo The US does need workers. I have read it. We are in a worker shortage in some areas, however this still does not explain the reluctance to codify this need in our lawful immigration policy. Our foreign policies also appear to be lacking as well.

Immigration and population control are important issues of our time not to be swept under the rug. These issues go hand and hand with being a true humanitarian and confronting broader issues effecting ppl and the environment as well. I think our national duty is to create a will to change how this is handled. There ARE reasonable solutions for all interested parties.

@Flowerwall The 'needing workers' has been around for decades. Seems we never have enough. Problem is the more we grow and the more that come here the more workers we need. Of course we forget we are on the cusp for a major breakthrough in AI and a time when robots will make most workers obsolete.
The most pressing existential crises facing LIFE (writ large) today is climate change and the crashing of the life support system for many forms of life. We are in the Anthropocene or sixth great extinction. This country has, by far per capita, the world largest carbon footprint. We need to reduce that not increase. No matter the source more people means a bigger footprint. People do not come here to reduce their footprint. We have surpassed any resemblance of sustainability. Sustainable growth is an oxymoron.
My late partner was an immigrant who came here from Iran at 24. She got her masters degree in teaching and taught for the Seattle Public school system. She understood fully the impact of overpopulation. She asked her 2nd graders what is more important people or dirt? She let reason be her guide not emotion. Emotions will not solve our serious issues. We may think we are helping but, in the end, when the system crashes every one goes with it, immigrants and natives.
Sorry, I have worked with population demographics for 26 years and am passionate (this is where emotion comes in lol)

@JackPedigo I do fully believe population, overpopulation is a serious issue. But what do you do? Vote Democrat and the push is no border. As much as you think you are supporting the envoronment with Democratic support, it's just a vote to support a larger American carbon footprint, as you said. I think the answer is acheiving a permanent Southern border and then an improved foreign policy. I was just listening to, a constitutionalist speak (I think, he is anyway) he was very knowledgeable in world history and is able to tie much of current events to similar events that have occurred throughout history. He did a good job explaining how regulation has been beneficial to growing big business, but has squeezed out smaller businesses. The bigger businesses in turn are often the ones looking for constant sources of new labor. He also related the original implementation to set the regulations to "pure fascism and the remaking of Mussolini's Corporate State". This is not his quote, but rather came from someone involved in the process originally. I guess the question is, is he right? How do we change course, if so. How do we prioritize our carbon footprint, a foreign policy that is more beneficial for foreigners while still encouraging our own small to midsize businesses to flourish? I also do not think immigration to US will ever end, and it would not be beneficial if it did. The question is how much, and is it ocurring in a lawful manner.

@Flowerwall Exactly, thank you for understanding. I consider myself a centrist mainly due to the overzealous approach to immigration by the Democrats. Unfortunately, the Republican view is mean-spirited and worse (who in their right mind locks up children)? The big problem is that, minus the big overpopulation groups as Zero Population Growth (I was on the local board for 8 years) and a few others, people no longer understand the problem. When it comes up many scratch their heads. This is by design as companies love to spread confusion as it helps their bottom line. There are several small groups pushing for a more sane population policy such as the Overpopulation Project [overpopulation-project.com] , NumbersUSA and Negative Population Growth. Another example is that two of the biggest environmental groups, Nature Conservancy and the National Geographic have had to take on corporate sponsorship. The finances needed are so large individuals alone can't fill the need. The National Geographic is now owned by Disney and tNC has many copporate sponsors. I have written to tNC many times (I am/was a legacy member) about their failure to spell out overpopulation. They have assured me they do have projects geared to lowering fertility rates in developed countries. That's not enough.

Yes again, it is our business model of continued growth that is the major problem especially on a finite planet. When one really looks at the constant growth mantra all one really sees is a huge Ponzi scheme. There have been many ideas regarding a more sustainable economic plan but it is always the short-sighted and make a quick buck corporate mind that wins out. I worked for a huge accounting firm, KPMG, and one partner told me when he hears sustainable he hears stagnation - that is the problem.

All the environmental groups I have been with have said either we get it now or it will be forced on us, as it right now. One other thing I have encountered is when the word overpopulation comes up in a discussion many turn off. They say it's too much doom and gloom. Problem is they then become the smile and deniers. Both are emotional views and I had been looking for years to find a reasoned approach. I came up with 'know and' blank. My late partner just laughed and said 'grow.' As I said she got it.

What to do is hard. For me its about becoming as informed as I can and changing my lifestyle in order to limit my footprint. I became vegan, learned how to get by on less and adjusted my finances to match my beliefs (like getting out of investment companies that invested in harmful things). Moving to a island and having a simpler but more connected way of life was another thing we did.

Thank you for taking the time to get it. There are some on this site that also get it but feel helpless.

@JackPedigo I just came across a book and author Chris Hedges. I read he is a fellow vegan. Ever heard of him? He doesn't work on the issue of overpopulation but is more a critic of the corporate state. His ideas seem like ones to listen to, well atleast hear out. He may not be popular around here as he wrote a book against current atheist movement. I disagree with his completely anti-capitalist stance, however, but would like to read more. He's also a critic of Bernie Sanders who was my first choice in last election, though not because of policy but because of person.

@Flowerwall Sounds interesting. Years ago I took a series of courses (9 + 12 field trips) given by the Mountaineers in Seattle. The Mountaineers is the 2nd largest environmental-outdoor group after the Sierra Club. They are also the country's largest publisher of outdoor books. The courses were about environmentalism and covered many topics including economics. Lots of economists came up with more sustainable theories and we are slowly headed in that direction. Still, I will look up Chris Hedges when I return from visiting my sister. So you are a vegan as well? Thanks for the tip.

@JackPedigo I meant to reply to this, but didn't until now. I don't know much about economics, I started to do the most basic study, but need to get back to it, certainly not anywhere near understanding economics when it's at that level. I would assume the revenue is then used to further the environmental cause, which makes sense. I think it was also quite correct what you had mentioned in a post or two further up that discussions of overpopulation are discussions people want to avoid because it's a topic that easily becomes emotional. Still for all the talk of "global warming" , not having overpopulation be the center of the discussion just seems like we are missing the biggest piece of the puzzle.

I've looked a little bit into Chris Hedges since this last message, and one of his related works was quite dystopian! It's not an easy piece of work to digest because it's meant to predict this hopeless path we are all on, more of a non-fiction, and not some form of fiction of the same genre that has become popular. Atleast one aspect of what he predicted has come to pass, which related to society becoming more unhinged. His earlier work doesn't seem nearly as depressing, so I don't know if it's attributed to a decline in hopefulness for the future or if it was the influence of others working on the project with him. It's not clear and I haven't looked into it either. He is a religious person, but a very tolerant one it appears. I believe he also currently works for RT. The dystopian work was very critical of the corporate state, attributing most all of society's problems back to its existence. Without being informed inmatters of economics, as stated above, it felt like too much blame is attributed in this direction and not enough in other places.How far the comparison of the US to a "corporate state" goes, is not one I can easily answer. either.The very breif descriptions I read on the topic as it originally related to Italy were very different from where we are today. So exactly how valid is the comparison? It's in defining the exact problem we can find the ways to fix it. It can even go back to the issues of environmentalism, though there will often be a continuef struggle between the interests of business and purely environmental concerns. Maybe these environmental organizations are right to just work within the given structure. But I am not a good judge of that, I would have to know more to say that conclusively.

As to the vegan question, no I am not. When I said "fellow vegan", I meant to you.

Also, just found Chris Hedges at one point debated Christopher Hitchens.

@Flowerwall I wonder if society becoming 'unhinged' is because it is or that there are some many more of us it seems to be larger. At the same time, the virtual media has given more people access to more misinformation and the increasing loss of resources have cause more of us to resort back to our baser instincts.
Hedges has won a lot of awards and accolades and I fear I may agree with some of his premises. Our form of democracy is crashing and the more of us and our worship of cultural diversity will be our undoing.

Nailed it.

You people are stupid because you can’t see that the democrats with their socialist ideas, open borders and unlimited immigration are ruining this country. It makes no sense to try to be green when we have open borders as overpopulation is the number one problem!

@Trajan61 Please define socialism, as you see it.

@Organist1 Socialism is big government with the government controlling almost everything. High taxes and unlimited immigration seem to be part of the socialist agenda.

@Trajan61 I guess you'd say it's better for middle income people like me to pay $1,750 per month + high deductibles and copays for health insurance, like I did before I turned 65, rather than pay slightly higher taxes and get reasonable health care. Of course, corporations and billionaires have there tax shelters in this country, and get away with not paying their fair share, but it's okay, because that's no socialism??? I think you're not understanding how deeply you've been brainwashed.

@Organist1 Do you really think getting the govt inolved is going to make healthcare MORE efficient, and MORE effectice? Our current system is imperfect, but it accomplishes a lot.

@Flowerwall The gov't can negotiate with healthcare companies and big pharma in a way we ordinary citizens can't In short, they have clout; we don't. Do you really think allowing those giant corporations to run roughshod over people is preferable? If so, how? Since turning 65, my healthcare costs have plummeted. That's because I have Medicare (yikes, socialism)!!!!!!! It should be that way for everyone. If my taxes are a bit higher, that still wouldn't touch the over $20,000 a year I formerly paid for healthcare. My only pre-existing condition was osteo arthritis. Yes, That's right; I paid nearly 1/3 of my income annually for health insurance and co-pays simply because I was 64.

@Organist1 Your the one who has been brainwashed. Socialism has never succeeded anywhere it’s been tried.

@Trajan61 Check out Scandinavian countries, all of which have such systems. Honestly, and this is the last time I will answer your silly statements: you need to get your head of the sand and educate yourself.

@Trajan61 *you're

@Organist1 The Scandinavian countries have a lot of natural resources which they utilize that allows them to spend a lot of money without extremely high taxes, a luxury we don’t have. Hell Norway is one of the largest oil producing countries outside of the Middle East while our screwball president wants to shut down US oil and gas production.

The democrats are the ones who favour more government regulations and higher taxes so I guess you must enjoy higher taxes and more heavy handed regulations.

@Trajan61 you need to get outta momma's basement & look around......is it Democrats in Texas doing all that regulating of half the population?

I’ll take the sensible people in Oklahoma over those lunatics in California any time.

Excellent answer. I was going to answer the twit but have decided that your excellent answer will serve as my own. I confess to never having wanted 45 to succeed, though. I said he was Russian in March of 2015 and hold to that theory. Success would have hurt us more than defeating him in whatever manner was necessary. The media, whom he stupidly declared war on, showed him who has greater power and he's unhappy about that. POTUS Joe is not The Messiah but I don't think he's claimed to be.

So I assume you favour higher taxes, more government regulations, and unlimited immigration over sensible government?

@Trajan61 you keep saying " more government regulations" As If telling people (you know, half the entire population) what they can do with their actual bodies is not Exactly that.....oh, and bunches of unwanted babies driving families into deeper poverty,, and botched abortions won't raise costs, either.....

@Trajan61 I assume you favor higher taxes on the middle class and poor than on corporations and the rich, no protection for the environment, restricting voting to conservative white people, ignoring the rule of law, and rejecting the will of the voters when it doesn't go the way you want it to.
I also assume your ancestors were Native American, seeing as you're anti-immigration.

@AnneWimsey If you haven’t figured out that the democrats are nearly always the ones who want to regulate more you haven’t been paying attention.

What in the hell would you call that bogus witch hunt against Trump? If that not being being vindictive I don’t know what is.

@Trajan61 To which are you referring, the one about him illegally holding up military aid in order to put the arm on Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky, so that Zelensky would announce a phoney investigation into Joe and Hunter Biden in order to smear Trump's most likely opponent in the election? Or the one about him fomenting an insurrection and urging his followers to march on the Capitol and overturn the results of that election, which Biden won fair & square? (You know, the election Trump's own Department of Homeland Security called "the most secure in history"?)

I would call those "Republican politicians turning a blind eye to the facts, because they're a bunch of spineless cowards" (Mitt Romney aside).

And you do realize that Biden, as a former Vice President and then the President, had absolutely nothing to do with bringing either of those cases in the House of Representatives? That was Speaker Pelosi. So your question now, has nothing to do with your original question about the personal qualities of Biden vis a vis Trump.

Do you know anything about the government?

Trump did succeed in doing a lot of good for this country. He undone a lot of Obama’s idiotic executive orders and regulations and lowered taxes. He also got us out of the looney Iran deal. He also secured the southern border and we didn’t have the mess at the border we have now. That idiot Biden has not done one thing for the good of the country.

@Paul4747 Trump lowered taxes on the middle class. Biden wants to raise them.

@Trajan61 Wrong again, Smiley.

While the 2017 tax cuts did lower taxes for all brackets, the bottom 80% of taxpayers only received 35% of the benefit; meaning that the top 20% got the other 65%. As usual under the Republicans, the wealthy very disproportionately got the lion's share of tax cuts. And, since the cuts were funded by deficit spending, the middle class will pay in the future for the wealthiest Americans' tax cuts now.

Corporate tax cuts, which were supposed to produce a wave of investing and new jobs, instead produced the largest stock buy-back in years, while job growth actually slowed from what it was under Obama (and this was pre-covid).

I agree that Trumps reversed many Obama policies, such as environmental protection, labor protection for the federal work force, commitment to developing clean energy, preserving public lands from corporate drilling and mining, humane treatment of immigrants, international cooperation, and so on. I disagree wholeheartedly on your characterizing them as "idiotic" or that these were good for the nation or for our standing in the world.

One good thing? We are no longer ranked below the Phillippines in international polls for trust and respect. Nor do we start the day by looking up who our President insulted on Twitter overnight; two good things. Basically, Joe Biden returned decency and sanity to the Oval Office overnight, and that's a brilliant thing. And then there's public policy; civil servants are respected and valued again, not treated like hotel waiters; no longer are we sticking up two middle fingers to the environment, to the poor, to blacks, to women, to the Middle East, to Europe, to Asia, to our allies; and we're not cozying up to strongmen and dictators overseas. Our President is an American President, not a wannabe Putin cosplayer.

So, I lost count of the good things just now.

Oh yeah; he doesn't have a running lie count in the hundreds, which Trump already did by this point in his administration.

I'm just going to stop answering your assertions, since your head is so far up your own illusions and you're just repeating everything you've written the last 4 years. 'Kay? Buh-bye now.

@rainmanjr The corrupt mainstream media has been lying like a dog ever since Obama became president. CNN and MSNBC in particular are left wing pieces of crap.

@Trajan61 Did someone speak?

@Trajan61 yuppers, Only Faux is telling you the truth.....you nincompoop.

Oops I forgot to include that one.

So you’d rather have looney liberal judges who like to legislate from the bench?

So you prefer legislation from the bench. You sound like most socialist open to difference in opinion
That doesn’t follow YOUR narrow opinion. You deflect and insult but consider yourself inclusive. In mu world inclusive whether democrat Republican or Wiccan means you fairly give each individual an opportunity to succeed or fail on there merits. Did you as individual not toting give Trumps administration. An even hand opportunity. Have you given credit for the developement of the vaccine mr Biden so readily takes credit for. You promote your self as progressive. You sound as narrow as republicans you revile.

@Trajan61 when/where did you actually See/hear Biden take credit for the vaccine? And is English your first language or do you just "think" as incoherently as you write? I bet both........

@Trajan61 I think it’s fair to say that ad hominem attacks toward one another are not constructive. It’s also fair to say that legislating from the bench occurs on both sides of the argument. When a conservative Supreme Court reverses Roe v. Wade or rules that money equates to speech (Citizens United), or that corporations cloaking themselves in religious conviction need not provide reproductive health care services to their employees (Hobby Lobby), the court is in fact legislating.

As a nonbeliever and ardent church-state separationist, I have watched the Republican party move away from its roots and prostitute themselves on the altar. Organized religion is actually vetting lists of judges for the Republican party, and look at the Supreme Court and lower courts that we have today! Barry Goldwater, Jr. despised the moral majority and Falwell’s crowd, Lisa Murkowski supports a woman’s right to choose, and Mitt Romney and George W. Bush found Trump to be incompetent. More Republicans like these are what is needed.

@p-nullifidian I think that abortions should be legal but it should have been voted on by each state. It’s not the courts job to legislate. Rino’s like Romney, Murkowski and Cheney will likely loose there seat and they should. I’m sure Cheney is toast.

@AnneWimsey [foxbusiness.com]

@Trajan61 Sadly, the Republican-in-name-only folks today are the people who are actually running the party. Yes, the principled people with a willingness to reach across the aisle may be “toast” but at least they are following the legacy of Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt and Dwight Eisenhower. Trump and his ilk are nothing but populist RINO pretenders.

@p-nullifidian I disagree. The Rino republicans need to be replaced with those loyal to the party. The looney democrats haven’t been willing to compromise for a long time and have become much more radical as they have moved sharply left. Hopefully the democrats will loose the house and senate in 2022 and the White House in 2024.

@Trajan61 Party loyalty should not take precedence over loyalty to the country as a whole. The problem we have today is entrenchment and unwillingness to work together, along with vilification of those who may have differing points of view. We are all Americans, are we not? Politics is not about winning at all costs; it’s about working together to find common ground for the good of the country. It’s about compromise, not total war.

@p-nullifidian The democrats haven’t worked with anyone for the good of the country in years. Hell when Trump was elected they had a fit and launched a bogus investigation. And the lying main stream media vilified Trump.

@Trajan61 “I think that abortions should be legal but it should have been voted on by each state.”
While we may have to just agree to disagree on which party has been more difficult to work with, your previous statement is problematic for the simple reason that relying on states is to protect a right is historically undependable.

Access to abortion is, or at least should be, a legal right, protected by the laws of each state as well as the federal government. In this way it is no different than all the other rights we take for granted today. Consider just how many states still had anti-miscegenation laws when the Supreme Court decided Loving v. the State of Virginia in 1967, or how many states either banned or didn’t recognize same-sex marriage prior to the Obergefell v. Hodges ruling in 2013. If the rest of the country waited for stubborn and recalcitrant states to grant rights that should be given to all, we might still have slavery in this country!

@p-nullifidian Maybe Congress should have passed a federal law making abortion legal nation wide in the first 20 weeks but that issue should not have been decided by the courts. No where in the US constitution does it say that abortion should be legal.

@Trajan61 The court held 7-2 in Roe v. Wade that 14th amendment’s due process includes the right to privacy, which in this case is between a woman and her doctor, and that any state that violates this right in her decision to terminate a pregnancy is in violation of the 14th amendment. Similarly, in Loving v. Virginia, the court held unanimously that the anti-miscegenation laws on the books of many states violated the 14th amendment’s equal protection and due process laws. A federal statute isn’t what is needed once the Supreme Court, which is the law of the land, has ruled. What is needed is for the states to comply.

@p-nullifidian If the opposing party is trying to ruin the country the opposing party members should be loyal to the leaders who are trying to stop them.

@Trajan61 Come on, nobody is trying to ruin the country. Talk like this is very unproductive. We are all Americans and salute the flag with the same enthusiasm.

But my main point here has to do with judicial appointments and the rulings that judges hand down for the rest of the country. Given the path of progress we’ve been on for the last 200 years, where our rights have been expanded and limitations put on the political interference of religion, it’s really hard to look at the judicial appointments of Republicans recently, a good number of whom have been vetted by church groups, as being anything but a step backward. This is especially true for the unchurched and nonbelievers.

@p-nullifidian I’ve been a victim of frivolous lawsuits brought on by liberal left wing appointed judges so you would have a hell of a tough time convincing me that liberal judges are better than conservative ones.

@Trajan61 Sorry to hear that… I do not in any way support clogging up the courts with wasteful litigation.

@p-nullifidian Liberal judges are a lot worse in that regard.

@Trajan61 Perhaps when it comes to litigation, what you say may be true. I do not know. But one thing’s for sure, when you’re the little guy being accused by a more powerful and wealthy accuser, you’re glad to have that liberal (in the classic sense of the word) judge on the bench. This is particularly true for the Supreme Court, where rich and powerful interests have less sway with liberal judges.

As I continue to argue, a conservative Supreme Court will ensure that we have fewer rights (e.g., abortion or voting access rights), will defer to rich and powerful interests and perhaps worst of all, support laws that favor religion, thus chipping away at the wall of separation between church and state!

@p-nullifidian I’ll take a conservative judge over a liberal one any day. I was a small cattleman sued by a lot bigger one in one lawsuit and a liberal federal judge decided to try the case after it had languished for over 3 years and looked like it might die.
Why do you suppose a lot of big business favour big business. Silicon Valley strongly supports the democrats because they want to continue to make there products in China where labor is cheap. A lot of other big business want open borders so they can bring in cheap labor and won’t have to hire higher price US labor.

@Trajan61 We have some common ground here, as I too own several businesses. One in the assisted living sector, where labor is almost impossible to find at any wage, and the other in light manufacturing. I’ve never been a fan of offshoring, particularly to a communist country. We have lost much of our capacity for manufacturing.

But when it comes to the assisted-living facilities, we cannot find enough people for the silver tsunami. As is the case in the ag sector and hospitality industries (hotels, restaurants and bars), we must import labor as there just simply aren’t enough candidates currently who are seeking work. When I was in high school and college, I always had a job, doing everything from custodial work to landscaping to bagging groceries to construction. People don’t appear motivated to work, at least not around here anyway. So when you don’t have enough Americans to fill the jobs, you need to open immigration further, not restrict it.

We need more people in this country who are willing to bust tail, and the immigrants who make it here, on the whole, hustle far more than many, if not most of us.

@p-nullifidian Maybe if we quit paying out so much welfare, unemployment and disability benefits it would be easier to hire and American to work. So far I haven’t had any problems getting help but I only have 2 full time and 1 or 2 part time employee’s. I have an hispanic guy who has been working for me full time and part time for over 40 years and he is very dependable and I pay him over 25 dollars per hour.

@p-nullifidian AOC is one of the rising stars in the democrat party and she is definitely trying to change the face of America and it will definitely be for the worse.