Most biblical scholars think that even Mark was not the original, but probably copied from an earlier lost work.

The reason for the lack of evidence in favour of non-historicity is very simple: The history of Christianity was written by Christians, who would have been highly motivated to only preserve (or fabricate) documents agreeable to their orthodoxy. We simply aren't allowed to see or hear much from contrarian sources of that period.

Roman and Jewish historians were pretty good about recording exceptional events and it is glaring that a man who cured the sick, raised the dead and performed various other miracles, along with the darkening of the sun and the dead saints walking through the city at his death/resurrection - has no independent historic chronicles. Not so much as a tax receipt and the Romans and Jews were very precise about tax receipts.

@NostraDumbass That is very true, and that is in many ways because they wrote long after the fact, when Christianity was well established. But which also means that they too, had already lost most first hand contact with the evidence, if there ever was any.

Which mythology? That YHVH incarnated as his own son, so he could die as a scapegoat for all sins, because He was incapable of just forgiving sins without requiring a blood sacrifice?

Or are you referring to the metaphorical reading, in which death of one's self-centered personality (chakras 1-3 in the Kundalini system) leads to rebirth on the level of the heart chakra and all those above it, but is not a physical death & rebirth?

Belief is a wonderful thing to have, like a security blanket all your own but where are the historical facts that are supposed to be the underlying fabric of the security blanket? Not a scrap of cloth or a single verifiable thread, unicorns have more evidence for their existence than this Jesus fellow.

@Paul4747 "Which mythology? That YHVH incarnated as his own son, so he could die as a scapegoat for all sins, because He was incapable of just forgiving sins without requiring a blood sacrifice?"
No son of man may die for another's sins; the lifesoul that sins will die
I detest your sacrifices
Under the law, almost every sin requires blood
You are freed from the law of sin and death
and you might read the Jacob/Esau thing, where Jacob made "red stew" for Esau, but you might notice never ate any himself?

"Or are you referring to the metaphorical reading, in which death of one's self-centered personality (chakras 1-3 in the Kundalini system) leads to rebirth on the level of the heart chakra and all those above it, but is not a physical death & rebirth?"
prolly more similar to that? a little harder to pick out in the Bible tho, granted

@SnowyOwl well fwiw i don't really hold beliefs like that any more, and i don't expect mythologies to hold any facts, per se; Jesus of Nazareth is quite possibly rabbi-speak for "John Doe, from Nowhere," or ill say that ive been leaning that way since i heard that a couple of years ago, and havent found any passages that refute it, and i have found quite a few that seem to support it.

Anything else i could say ive already said, and you seem intent on seeking "facts," so...owls are "wise," right?

@bbyrd009 On the contrary, Xstians accept Jesus Christ as a fact because the Bible Tells Them So. I see Jesus of the Bible to be nothing more than a fabrication by religion and ask for actual facts to be presented to support the claim that this keystone of the Xstian faith ever existed at all.
No historic evidence means no support for the keystone and no support for the crazy Xstian dogma. People are still going to believe what they want to believe but at least let's identify it for what it is, a fantasy with no factual evidence to support it in reality.

@SnowyOwl "On the contrary, Xstians accept Jesus Christ as a fact because the Bible Tells Them So"
Christians? Ha. Dont you know what the Bible says about "believers?"
"SO, you can spend the rest of your life, if you like, reinforcing your belief—really just like any believer does, only “anti”—or you can see that the literal story was installed on purpose, to deliberately mislead, to hide wisdom from the wise is how it is put."

"I see Jesus of the Bible to be nothing more than a fabrication by religion and ask for actual facts to be presented to support the claim that this keystone of the Xstian faith ever existed at all."
"So, since you seem fulfilled doing this i won't bug you for now, but if/when you are ever inclined to begin understanding the mythology, which lemme tell you it is much more satisfying, on more than one level even since a believer will not even be able to reply to you, maybe holler then"
to which i might add, do you really believe that a book where the main character does nothing but put down the religious, whil elevating the pagan and the atheist, is about or produced by anyone "religious?"

"No historic evidence means no support for the keystone and no support for the crazy Xstian dogma."
for whatever reason you don't seem to be getting that i am not disagreeing with you here
"People are still going to believe what they want to believe but at least let's identify it for what it is, a fantasy with no factual evidence to support it in reality."
damn, is this thing even on?
so go with that then, if you like?

@bbyrd009 you seem to be bothered by my asking for evidence of historic evidence of Jesus the Christ and I'm not clear about your segue into what does or doesn't fulfill me. That's fine and have a nice day.

@SnowyOwl are you not even reading my posts?
i am agreeing with you that a literal Jesus almost surely never existed, Snowy

no offense but this is why i stated that im really just talking to another (anti-) "believer" imo; its like we are not even having a conversation or something?

@bbyrd009 Have a Super Sparkly Day!

@SnowyOwl "anti-Jesus loves you" ok got it

What colour is the sky in your world? Mine is currently overcast with light showers but it is supposed to clear later and I'll go for a ride with my wife on our electric bikes.

@SnowyOwl ok well i hope you have a great day. I appreciate the stark illustration of wisdom is hidden from the wise

@bbyrd009 Those who know a little bit will question everything, including their knowledge. Those who are ignorant are secure in the idea, that they know everything there is to know.

@SnowyOwl ha nailed it, at least near as i can tell
truly, you are a wise person

“ Those who know a little bit will question everything, including their knowledge. Those who are ignorant are secure in the idea, that they know everything there is to know.”
is there any chance—particularly as you are a rabid gnostic atheist interloping in a supposedly “agnostic” forum, basically an uninvited guest—that you might connect the above to “snowy owl” sooner, rather than later?

@SnowyOwl "No two who know, know the same in their knowing." (I think I read that on a box of Cracker Jacks.)

only near as we can tell Nazareth was not even inhabited in that era? Before and after, apparently, but not 0ad?

So there would have been a bunch of other very common healers, miracle workers and guys named Jesus who were crucified and resurrected 3 days later? What a magical time to be alive and yet nobody bothered to write anything down for more than a century, probably busy watching the gladiators at the games.

@SnowyOwl sorry, what?
"near as we can tell Nazareth was not even inhabited"
"so there were a bunch of Jesuses, doing miracles and getting crucified/resurrected?"
?

i mean, maybe im missing something? ima get my sis to read this without saying anything, maybe its me

Inasmuch as we have the same "empirical evidence" for the existence of Zeus or Odin, for the Buddha speaking his first words immediately after birth, or Mohammed being the most recent prophet of Yahweh. Or for Little Red Riding Hood. The fact that it still exists as a story does not make it real.

@Paul4747 no, you do not understand, mind virus organism is real. People call it God.

@Word And you don't understand what "evidence" means.

"Evidence" is that which is seen, therefore "evident". There's no such thing as evidence for an invisible deity.

Interesting new track for you, though, admtting that religion is a disease.

@Paul4747 show me evidence for cognition and I show you evidence for a mind virus organism.

Religion... pure and faultless is this: to help widows and orphans in need while avoiding worldly corruption. James 1:27

I am not making any admission that helping widows and orphans in need while avoiding worldly corruption is a disease.

@Paul4747 please feel free to read thru my group post so I do not have to retype anything here. Feel free to question or comment on any of my post. I know my post are not exactly as written by a perfect professional writer. Nonetheless. The information is objective and can be discussed if there need be any clarification or correction.

"Illogical atheists guide for ending Christianity "

Just the facts please, supposition and conjecture do not a fact make. Show me real, hard evidence or step aside.

@SnowyOwl I have not spoken about your faith, nor am I having a discussion pertaining to your faith.

@SnowyOwl you say, "Show me real, hard evidence ..."

As I also commented to paul4747 above, if you can show me a handful of cognition so we can hold the "hard" substance of cognition in our hands, then I can show you evidence of a mind virus organism with a measurement of cognition capability unto itself. Please see my group as I linked it "Illogical atheists guide for ending Christianity "

Here you can at your interest look over information so that you may try an understand evidence.

@Word Not to worry, I'll prey for you or on you, whatever, never mind, don't really care about Bibble evidence to support bull shit in the Bibble.

@SnowyOwl Yea, your just way off base in your apparent understanding of what I am saying. I don't need to be your prey. Nor do I have interest for anyone to pray.

@Word You are way off base in explaining much of anything, too little facts and too much blah, blah, blah.

@SnowyOwl I can understand your lack of scientific understanding could cause for things to seem blah, blah, blah for you. Then to, I am not trying to go thru some lengthy education course typed here so you understand all the details of vocabulary and such concepts of scientific understanding.

@Word those 3 years working on my BSc before I switched my major to Business Administration for the money, must have been a total waste of time then? I made a lot more money building several successful companies and retiring at 47 years of age than if I had stayed cooped up in a lab but my Organic Chemistry Prof had a heart to heart with me and it changed my life. I have a drive to be the very best at whatever I put my hands to and he explained that I would only be very good and that's just not good enough for me.
Anyhoo, you go on with your blah blah blah until you get some actual empirical data that we can use to prove unicorns, angels with harps and the Baby Jeebus.

@SnowyOwl unicorns really exist. A giant rhino that may have been the origin of the unicorn myth survived until at least 39,000 years ago - much longer than previously thought. Known as the Siberian unicorn, the animal had a long horn on its nose, and roamed the grasslands of Eurasia.Nov 27, 2018
[bbc.com] › news › s...
'Siberian unicorn' walked Earth with humans - BBC News

Unicorn that is not extinct.
Rhinoceros – The Real Life Unicorn
Rhinoceros are a group of extant species of herbivorous, odd-toed ungulates. The Rhinoceros are one of the last remaining of the Earth’s megafauna. The word Rhinoceros originates from Greek, Rhino meaning nose and Ceros meaning horn, thus nosehorn, thus are the Planet’s real-life unicorns! [thetravellingcheetah.com]

Since unicorn literally means one horn, a rhinoceros can be called an unicorn and indeed the scientific name for the Indian rhinoceros is Rhinoceros Unicornis

@SnowyOwl The Indian rhinoceros, also called the Indian rhino, greater one-horned rhinoceros or great Indian rhinoceros, is a rhinoceros species native to the Indian subcontinent. It is listed as Vulnerable on the IUCN Red List, as populations are fragmented and restricted to less than 20,000 km². Wikipedia
Scientific name: Rhinoceros unicornis
Lifespan: 35 – 45 years (In the wild)
Order: Perissodactyla
Family: Rhinocerotidae
Phylum: Chordata
Mass: Male: 4,900 lbs (Basel Zoo population), Female: 3,500 lbs (Basel Zoo population)
Height: Male: 5.3 – 6.3 ft. (At Shoulder), Female: 4.8 – 5.7 ft. (At Shoulder)

@SnowyOwl so I have given you plenty of empirical evidence for unicorn currently and existed extinct.

If you notice, I did not take an actual unicorn rhinoceros and slap you across the face with it physically.

AS TO ANGELS WITH HARPS? I do not really know about this harp connection, nor does it seem to matter if a harp is involved.

However, just as I did not slap with a unicorn rhinoceros in person. I do not have to slap the holy shit out of you to give you empirical evidence of Jesus being ANGELIC lord of hosts, Lucifer the devil.

It may be a good thing in more than one way that you changed from science. If you cannot understand empirical evidence, I could slap the shit out of you all day long and you just wouldn't get it. So, I will just leave you with what I have and let you slap your own self or just let you have you cognative disonnence because you cannot understand science.

Here I will leave a link to my group that has my explinations about the biological nature of Jesus of biblical text.

"Illogical atheists guide for ending Christianity "

@Word "mind virus organism" im not really finding any relevant hits for? could you expand on the premise? ty

@bbyrd009 "...Dawkins's own position is somewhat ambiguous. He welcomed N. K. Humphrey's suggestion that "memes should be considered as living structures, not just metaphorically"[12] and proposed to regard memes as "physically residing in the brain."[13] Although Dawkins said his original intentions had been simpler, he approved Humphrey's opinion and he endorsed Susan Blackmore's 1999 project to give a scientific theory of memes, complete with predictions and empirical support.[14]"

[en.m.wikipedia.org]

@Word "I have not spoken about your faith, nor am I having a discussion pertaining to your faith."
as you have no doubt realized at this point, you are not really having a "discussion" at all i guess; "discussion" infers connected responses to queries, etc? Ive seen this before, not really sure what it is though; its like he cannot even really hear you or something?

@Word "Dawkins's"
ok ty, ill check it out!
tails nicely with Jesus of Nazareth = "John Doe, from Nowhere," at least imo

@Word ah, you say "mind virus organism," why not just say "meme?"
i guess bc the definition of meme has been dumbed down now?

@bbyrd009 if you had understanding of a major there of biblical text, you could see that the theme is that Jesus character is a "son of meme" organism.

@Word i guess that was even prevalent OT? Never were any (contemporaneous) "walls of Jericho" for instance, which i guess contemporaries would have immediately been aware of. etc.

@bbyrd009 A study of ceramic remnants, royal scarabs, carbon-14 dating, seismic activity in the region and even some ruins of tumbled walls produced what is being called impressive evidence that the fortified city was destroyed in the Late Bronze Age, about 1400 B.C.Feb 22, 1990
[nytimes.com] › world
Believers Score in Battle Over the Battle of Jericho - The New York ...

[google.com]

@Word ok, so there never were any walls in Joshua's time, to be more precise

@bbyrd009 I don't know not my area of expertise