@creative51 I would say caca, excrement, stool or any other synonym, but shit is the best word to describe that brown stinky defecation, besides it would sound pretentious to say No excrement, Sherlock! Ergo my constant use of the word shit to describe what is actually that, shit. As for the other issue, I have no objections.

@creative51 shit just sounds better!!!

@creative51 Mofo hasn't fo-ed a mo in a long time. He is very crabby.

@Mooolah only with assholes.

That is not unique to America

@DenoPenno
My Pfizer Booster is due 1 March. I'm can't wait
BionTech has set up here. There might be a Fourth Booster. We need to wait and see. In the meantime South Africans are still exercising caution. We have to

@DenoPenno

I like your comment:

"I left her with the thought that if those in power are killing you off they do not get your money. There is a big push to keep us alive and that is the only way to continue getting our money."

It must've had an impact on her, I hope!

We are seeing a cult mind. Cults have a doctrine, form a group, assume compliance from it's members and rejects any who don't comply. They wish to impose their will on everyone else.

@puff I know, anti-vaxxers are crazy.

@OldMetalHead And all of it has been exploited by the corporate assholes.

Having four borders that are pretty secure against military invasions, and our size, has also been determinative. Not many nations are so well insulated.

@Paracosm totally agree with you

These guys are great. Lots of good info.

@Redheadedgammy Nationally we are still masking, distancing and sanitising. We know It's not over. Anti-vaxxer protesters are toning down, becoming quiet about their choices. Corporate companies and other have mandatory vaccination in place. Two employees who took two companies to the Labour Court lost their case. The Court upheld the Company's decision.
I see the Anti - Vax Truckers in Canada are being supported by Trump. ...yet his family, GOP and people and his circle have vaccinated!

@Redheadedgammy I thought so too

@TimeOutForMe 90% of the truckers are vaxxed. It is not an antivax protest as such eg still curfews in place.

@puff it's an Anti-Vax Mandate Protest. ...and supported by Trump!

@puff It amazes me that you dirty cons can outright lie like this and still show your faces.

@LovinLarge @TimeOutForMe Yes anti mandate protest, supported by all sorts of people. If you are pro-consent that is the same as anti-vax for some. Mandates cover things like distancing in restaurants ie limit on numbers and curfews.
[globalnews.ca]

@puff Your article about the truckers protest doesn't say anything about mandates other than vaccine mandates. If someone fails to comply with a vaccine mandate, they are antivax by definition.

@LovinLarge Yes they are, but in reality many pro-consent are pro-vax because the definition is misleading at best and misinformation at worse.
It is possible to be provax, which is a procedure, and also pro freely given informed consent. Not so hard to understand.

@puff Your nonsensical, barely literate arguments contradict each other. I presume English is not your first language, comrade.

@LovinLarge You are an excellent example of American exceptionalism. Never your "groups" fault is it? Either cons, trolls, Russians, unvaxxed etc. But never your perfect reality of the govt, society or a Democratic POTUS, never their fault is it? Always something else with no self reflection because after all, you are exceptional.

@puff Better exceptional like me than unexceptional like you.

@puff
...so you got your excerpt from this article wrt 90% vaccinated. This article also says its an Anti-Vax Mandate Protest as I've understood previously. You do realise its 1% and they're infringing on others' rights too. If you listen and read nicely there's American support and INFLUENCE for this protest... from Trump and he also goes on to insult the Canadian Prime Minister. If your freedom directly impacts others' freedom and rights which can end in death, how is that justified?
@LovinLarge

@TimeOutForMe The reality is the jabs don't stop transmission as vaccines should. Now if they did, my position totally changes. But they do not.

@puff @TimeOutForMe The vaccines do stop transmission of COVID. You are spreading medical disinformation during a pandemic and should be banned from this website.

@LovinLarge link please to confirm your statement. Know you can do it, using only reputable sources of course.

@puff I can prove my claim but you can't prove yours.

[usatoday.com]

@LovinLarge Thank you for providing examples for the post

@puff Translation: You are not man enough to admit that contrary to your representations, vaccines stop transmission of COVID. You dirty cons have no regard for the truth.

@puff Transmission can still happen (this is why we wear the mask) but is not as likely to be a lethal infection (if symptoms show up at all) because of the vaccine. You pick and choose facts to arrive at a fatal conclusion.

@puff
The big promise of the vaccine is significantly less chance of hospitalisation and death for an individual. Given the reduced risk of severe infection, hospitalisation and death, I think it's quite clear that it is effective as a vaccine. Besides, the less time a person is sick, the less opportunity the virus has to transmit. This does not mean it will never transmit, just that transmission is lower.
Instead of the spread itself, the focus should be set on hospitalisations and mortality anyway.
Why is it that we trust / believe science over religion, but conspiracy theories over science? Not all infections are equal, so natural immunity is not the same for everyone (unknown variable). But the vaccine is measured and controlled, so it's a known risk reduction. There is evidence that prior infection + vaccine is the best protection for future infection. So on this point, I think mandates make more sense. I would add trust in the medical institutions as a key factor to consider here. I don't think it's wise to ignore how the public (or parts of the public) are reacting negatively to mandates and proposed mandates.
Personal freedom is a worthwhile value to promote but the relatively low risk of Omicron (as is the case in South Africa)
isn't sufficient reason to ignore the common good which vaccines provide.
Conspiracy theories don't make it easier and people are more likely, in my opinion, to follow conspiracies and propaganda than facts. Misinformation is perpetual. A "pro-vax, anti-mandate" person would still be vaccinated, but will oppose mandates? Am I missing something here?

I consider and value personal freedoms to choose over and above anything else, but freedom takes many forms. This idiotic slippery slope idea of mandating vaccines leading to some kind of dictatorial dystopia is absurd. We have however seen the very real loss of freedom to all of us as a result of having to worry about either getting sick or getting those we love sick and family and friends dying. Vaccinating everyone that can be vaccinated through any means necessary is a net positive to health, life and freedom.

@TimeOutForMe I recall the big promise of the vaccine was to provide a herd immunity, which is why percentage figures of the population needed to be vaccinated were thrown about. It started of with 60% needed the "safe and effective" vaccines. But as effectiveness showed it was not as effective as claimed, that percentage blew out to 70,80 and 90% in some places and they started targeting kids, who were never mentioned initially. It was originally only ever meant for the vulnerable. It was the lockdowns which were meant to relieve pressure on hospitals.
I don't trust science as such, I accept it, all of it. Plus, I do have to mention that artificially produced medicine is not the only science. There are social sciences and safety which have been largely ignored during this pandemic. Modelling has not been accurate yet control measures have not changed. This is not science.
Vaccination is a procedure to provide immunity. Well, it used to be but now only has to boost immunity. This watering down of the definition does a disservice to medicine by accepting certain medicines now as vaccines when a meaningful immunity is not provided, only boosted. This makes the theory of achieving a herd immunity through a vaccination program a pipe dream.
You seem to support mandates in this case for two reasons; force people to protect themselves and relieve pressure on medical services because blind Freddy can see it is not stopping transmission. If you need proof, look at current data coming out of Israel and Australia where vaccination rates are up there, 80-90%.
Do you understand these covid vaccines are experimental, still in phase III trials? No-one can tell you how many boosters will be needed over the next 2 years because they don't know, still learning aka experimenting. If a state mandates an experimental medicine, well, there is precedent. It resulted in a trial where all agreed that in future, medical treatment requires freely given, informed consent with no coercion before receiving treatment. Do you see people, before receiving a jab, being informed these medicines are still in trials, emergency approved, and that as such they are under no obligation to take part?
I believe in freedom of belief, that people may believe what they wish. I may disagree, think they are nutter's for believing what they do but will defend their right to believe what they will. Because the alternative is thought police, where having a different belief than what is currently in vogue becomes a crime. This is what we are seeing now. Freely choosing to not partake in a medical experiment is not a crime yet, but the coercion being applied is quite severe; threatening livelihoods and freedom of travel and association.
I support freedom of belief above all else because I like variety. The world would be very boring if we lived in an echo chamber. So I support people who believe the goat herders guide to the galaxy. I support women's rights to choose their own birth control. I support trans, gays etc to identify as they wish. And I support those who for whatever reason choose not to take a covid-19 vaccine, or any other medical treatment, their right to refuse. Mandates dismiss the need to seek freely given, informed consent which is not good, rather see education used ie carrot not stick..
Declaring a pandemic implies emergency so emergency powers are given to government to deal with it. This allows "warp speed" to approve medicines to combat the pandemic. Also allows the mandate of medicines, not any old medicines, vaccines only. Why only vaccines? Because vaccines provide immunity both protecting the person and stopping further spread. Now this scenario, with a deadly pandemic, people will willingly take an experimental medicine to end the pandemic and save themselves. But that is not the scenario is it? After 2 years of fear mongering not enough people fear the pandemic as governments would like them to, nor accept the "totally safe and effective" marketing pitch for the jabs. So they have made a choice and I support choice. Mandates remove choice.
Others have absorbed the repetitive messaging and are hysterical about a pandemic killing about 0.3% of populations, mostly elderly ie end of life with premorbid conditions. They have become so scared that they insist all must do everything humanly possible to stop it. They want to force measures on people to ease their own anxiety, when these measures have proven to be ineffective. They applaud authorities stripping away long held norms like medical treatment requires consent and free movement within their own countries. They applaud discrimination and do not tolerate dissent of any kind.
This is the future we are creating for ourselves.
If the covid-19 vaccines actually provided meaningful immunity ie long lasting with breakthrough infections rare like other vaccines, different story and my position would adjust accordingly.
Reality is what is not what we wish it was.

@TimeOutForMe Translation: He knows he's lost the argument and all he can think of to try to cover it up is to type more than anyone is interested in hearing from him.

@puff @LovinLarge
you're definitely all over the place here if you're honest enough to admit it. I could be wrong but seems like you're into holistic medicine but you're not admitting it. You stress in many ways how you're anti science without acknowledging the success the vaccines have had.
Many vaccine trials have been done in South Africa with known side effects as with the majority of vaccines being administered in our lifetime as follows: I'll attach everything towards the end since my previous message simply deleted. or will attach on a new message.
The efficacy levels of the various vaccines also differ. Boosters have always followed thereafter. All kids in South Africa had Boosters after various vaccines to counter diseases over time during their childhood. I can't speak for other countries.

Btw there are vaccines that don't prevent you from being infected but rather save you from certain death. If most people are vaccinated then most new cases will be vaccinated as a matter of base population. No-one that I have spoken to, that is against the vaccine, has any actual scientific evidence that the vaccine would not be beneficial to them, Its all hand waving and vague answers and purposeful misunderstanding. Digging deeper you always find some or other conspiracy theory at the root of it. In any event antibody tests are not so accurate and doesn't mean you may not be re-infected.
Do you deny that any business or organisation has the right to refuse service to unvaccinated people?
The same right that protects people from being vaccinated protects other people from being in their presence. The unvaxxed could easily be a risk to my well being in that I would have to wear a mask forever while you breathe in the clean air you deny me.
Unvaxxed people are more contagious, I don't understand how people can still be so misinformed about the vaccine at this stage. It has literally been plastered everywhere. I can provide studies to show that the viral load has a direct influence on how contageous you are and that unvaxxed people have a much higher viral load:

[thelancet.com]
The unvaxxed land up in hospital and expect to be treated with other drugs in hospital to get better without questioning it. It's a risk too. We've all had vaccines as a kid against all the other viruses? what's the difference now?
Some anti-vaxxers say previous vaccines were developed and tested over several years. So what? Medical technology has advanced. Why don't you welcome that?
Would you refuse cancer medicine if you're dying from cancer? Off course not!

How do you judge when it is ok for the government to enforce mandates or not?
Is there a principle/set of conditions/etc that must be met first? Isn't there enough dying taking place?
How about no mandated vaccination, but only granting access to cultural events (concerts, theatres, sports clubs) restaurants and so on, only if vaccinated or recovered and vaccinated?
Some European countries consider: no vaccine mandates, but basically you can only do shopping, use public transport and eat takeout only, but not much more!
Many Americans don't want mandates and don't want restriction? They want the virus instead to have free reign. In my opinion, stricter regulations for the unvaxed because of the risk they carry!

We know that the long term side effects of covid include serious effects on the organs, including the brain, kidneys, even erectile disfunction. I cannot see how choosing natural immunity is better!
Remember every single person that has died from any infection had a "natural immunity".
Israel has vaccinated 93 % of the population and recently reported 14500 cases daily. I'll post all the charts in a separate post.

[npr.org]

@puff @LovinLarge

I tried to add this one to my message above but wouldn't take it. Here it is now. This wrt Israel's Vaccinated & Unvaccinated - Infections and Hospitalisation. It clearly indicates vaccines do work.

@TimeOutForMe Covid-19 is a coronavirus, with Omicron being upper respiratory only with previous strains deeper in the lungs. How many successful vaccines have been developed for viral infections causing these symptoms?
Previous vaccines are not the subject, covid-19 ones are Other vaccines are fully approved with at least 5 years of data behind them ie there is liability.
If I had late stage cancer, and was told chemo should extend my life, I would refuse. That anti-science dumb dumb Einstein also refused medical treatment that could have prolonged his life. If a vaccine for death was developed, I wish to retain the right to refuse. Consent.
Long term effects? Scientifically, no-where near enough time has passed to make that call.
These medicines have their use, pre-emptive use, and vulnerable should take to protect themselves. But that's my advice. I am more than happy to allow people to retain the right to choose for themselves.
Looking at raw data is fun, but what do you glean from that data? What trends do you identify?

@TimeOutForMe Gotta commend you for your patience with this one. What I see with him is that even when he is proven wrong with evidence, he redirects the focus of the discussion elsewhere rather than adjusting his position. He is so invested in his antivax position for whatever reason that he's not interested in the truth. As in his initial post, he deflects delusion onto others rather than following the science. He is uneducable. My policy is generally that it's wise to keep away from people like this. You've done a good job of handling him, though.

@puff @LovinLarge

...so you're not denying you're anti-science and into holistic medicine.
As @LovinLarge clearly and rightfully says:
"when (you) he is proven wrong with evidence, he redirects the focus of the discussion elsewhere rather than adjusting his position. He is so invested in his antivax position for whatever reason that he's not interested in the truth".

She is soooo right about you. I couldn't have said it better.

You strike me as the sort of person, even though you are an atheist who, if bitten by a Black Mamba and had the immediate choice of an antidote or a prayer would opt for a prayer!

I'm done! Cheers

@TimeOutForMe a quote from you supporting @LovinLarge position where she clearly states "the vaccines do stop transmission of covid"

And your quote
"Israel has vaccinated 93 % of the population and recently reported 14500 cases daily."

Yes, quite obvious the vaccine stops transmission.

I defend peoples choice, you defend forcing medical treatment on people and discriminating against them. Quietly confident I will be on the right side of history when this pandemic is studied by future scholars.

You two have really illustrated the point of this post quite magnificently.

@puff I posted evidence and there is lots more proving that the vaccine stops transmission and you posted none to the contrary. I even explained how it does so in order to help you understand but you refuse to acknowledge that no vaccine stops transmission of anything entirely.

You're on the wrong side of this subject and you'll always be on the wrong side, of the pandemic and everything else I've seen you post about here because you don't understand basic concepts essential to the human condition like contagion and community. The only support I've seen you get on this website is from other people who don't know what they're talking about. You're a grown man who doesn't understand the proper use of the apostrophe. I know I will always be right when you disagree with me.

@puff @LovinLarge

Your accusation:

"you defend" forcing" medical treatment on people and discriminating against them".

You ooze with nonsense! period! You certainly do know how to twist facts and rub your crap on someone else who gave you the facts!

We're talking about a pandemic that's taken the world by storm, scientists working around the clock, people getting sick and dying!!! Not cancer where you admit you don't want meds and wish to die!

Forcing is a darn strong word. Use it on yourself!

Cheers!

If only they didn't breed in much greater numbers than the more sensible people, because that tends to make a wash of the numbers they lose to Covid...