Because it's been in the news lately, whether Jewish is a race, culture, religion or ethnicity... I just happened to notice what my clients put on their marriage license today.
This is a question on the application that they answer on their own, it's actually optional, but the state likes to keep records about races and marriage for some reason. Most people fill it in - and some people leave it blank, so it says "refused."
Just thought it was interesting that the bride stated "Jewish" for her "race" and the groom stated "Caucasian" for his race.
I usually look at these notes on the marriage licenses, but I don't think too much about it.
What do you think? Is "Jewish" a race, religion, ethnicity, country of ancestors or what? What constitutes a race in your opinion?
I'm only showing the bottom few lines of the marriage license for privacy of the clients.
Edit: In looking over my recent marriage licenses, I do see: White, Caucasian, Black, Hawaiian, Malaysian, Chamorro, Mexican, Asian, Chinese, Japanese, Bi-racial, Filipino, Korean, Latina, Multi-racial, German, Pacific Islander... the rest refused to answer the question. I get couples from all over the world. It's interesting to see how they each identify their "race."
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Simple answer. As I suggested to the Anti-Defamation League who should put out the misnomer that Jewish is a race. Jewish is a religion. The idea that it was a race came from Hitler's actions in World War II. That Hitler gets to decide because it was his Aryan race against the Jewish "race" Is bullshit. Hitler needed an opponent and he picked the Jews and a few other minorities. Is Catholic a race? Is Lutheran a race? Not according to the US Census. Is a black Ethiopian Jew of mixed-race? It's unfortunate that your client bought into the bullshit but just because she says it doesn't make it so, and just because Hitler said it didn't make it so. It's interesting that you're asking people what they think as if the public gets to decide what race someone is. You have to convert if you are not of the Jewish religion and want to be acknowledged as a Jew. If you're white and you want to be of the black race can you convert? It's not up to the Court of public opinion. Just one more anti-semitic attempt at putting the Jews in a separate category. (no, I'm not suggesting that your question did that but allowing the issue to be up for debate does that, interesting that the question isnt asked any other religion. )
lerlo
Level 8
Feb 19, 2022
0
You have put me in mind of a wicked idea: race 100 metres breaststroke. (Or marathon, or race to bottom, or ball bearing race)
I've often wondered this myself. I'm surprised no one posted anything from the Jewish community for some insight. (assuming no one here was once Jewish 
) This was one of the first sights I found that was from a 'Jewish' sight. Interesting. [jewinthecity.com]
Captain_Feelgood
Level 8
Feb 19, 2022
2
Thanks for the article. Seems to me my client put Jewish as it was her heritage and she definitely identified herself AND her groom as Jewish, but he entered Caucasian as his "race." Sounds like I'm not the only one confused. No matter, as it's just an optional box on a form, but it just piqued my curiosity.
thanks to all who contributed a comment to my post. the responses were interesting and educational. No single opinion supplies a definitive answer.
TheDoubter
Level 9
Feb 19, 2022
0
@TheDoubter here's your definitive answer. It's a religion. Whatever religion you used to be were you a race? The US Census has the definitions it except for race. This site and no other person on it gets to pick a religion and single them out as a race. It's done for anti-semitic purposes only
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Biologically there are no human races, race is not a scientific usage, the idea of it only exists in folklore. ( So nobody belongs to any race.)
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Of the traditional folklore races, the Jewish belief spans nearly all of them, and so it could only be called a multiracial belief, even if races existed.
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However, a large part of the Jewish traditional religion originates from a time when race was believed in, and a large part of the religion is concerned with the idea that being Jewish is racial. Another thing that religion got wrong.
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There is however a small ultra orthodox sect called the Samaritans, (Yes, the ones in the story supposedly told by the Jesus character.) who claim to be the only true Jews, and to have maintained racial purity by strict marriage and sex laws. Which is why the other Jews traditionally got annoyed with them. As you may guess they are now highly inbred, have low fertility and other birth defects, and there are only a few thousand left. But yes, they alone could perhaps claim to be racial Jews, if that term had meaning.
Are you more confused now ? So is everyone, and so especially are most believers, including those who filled in your marriage papers. For them it may be forgivable ignorance, for your state to still include the question, especially without a qualifier like , "traditional" or "self defined" is not forgivable.
Fernapple
Level 9
Feb 19, 2022
2
People put all kinds of things in that box, sometimes running out of room for all the different races they are. Hawaii is such a melting pot of various races and cultures.
I'm guessing the state just likes to collect all the various statistics when they can. They also ask for age, gender, education level, birth place of parents, and the couple, current place of residence, number of past marriages and how they ended and where, etc. I'm sure some of the statistics are for the visitor bureau, to gauge how much money the wedding industry brings into the state.
National Human Genome Research Institute
Race is a fluid concept used to group people according to various factors including, ancestral background and social identity. Race is also used to group people that share a set of visible characteristics, such as skin color and facial features. Though these visible traits are influenced by genes, the vast majority of genetic variation exists within racial groups and not between them. Race is an ideology and for this reason, many scientists believe that race should be more accurately described as a social construct and not a biological one.
@Matias But would they think that a black West Highland Terrier, was any different from a white Westy, or would they recognize them as the same breed. And that is the point, because the human race passed through a genetic bottle neck only a few thousand years ago, we are all so closely related that we count as one family in genetic terms. There is in fact more genetic diversity in the average family of chimps than the whole human species. It is a very technical point but in biology our variations do not count as races, as technically recognized in other species, just at most, colour forms of the same race.
@Matias You miss the point, which is that word "race", as the scientific community use the term, is a technical term, with a strict definition, within, ( the admittedly subjective, ) science of taxonomy, and the human subdivisions made over the last seventy thousand years or so by accumulated mutation, ( Which is no time at all in evolutionary terms. ) simply do not meet the qualifications for that term. And neither I think do most dog breeds. Though dogs are much more diverse than humans, since genes from the grey wolf were probably intoduced several times.
If you wish to take issue with the scientific community, and have the rules of taxonomy changed, you are welcome to do so no doubt. Or if you want to use, what Astralmax in a serious comment calls a, "social construct", and I call, "folklore" in a humorous light hearted comment, since, social construct and folklore mean nearly the same thing, that is your privilege, then you are once again welcome.
I think nobody should be asking! A holdover from "misgenation" laws no doubt.
AnneWimsey
Level 9
Feb 19, 2022
0
I get a lot of mixed race marriages, by whatever degree they are measuring, so I suppose they could tell how many marriages would be affected if they ever outlawed inter-racial marriages again.
I would call Jewishness a mindset, not a race.
The genetic origins of my DNA are nobody's business but mine and those of my doctors. All governments can keep their snouts out of the origins of my DNA.
anglophone
Level 9
Feb 18, 2022
1
It's just optional to provide how marriage applicants want to describe their race, or maybe it should read ethnicity. She used a lot of Jewish terms, in a non-religious manner, in the vows she wrote to read to her sweetie.
I really wish we could be done with all this petty, stupid, arbitrary nonsense. I get that there has been thousands of years of oppression, objectification, slavery, murder, etc. because of "race" but the human race is about to start drowning and starving en masse and we're forever distracted by designations that will mean nothing in the future (if we make it to the future, that is).
ChestRockfield
Level 8
Feb 18, 2022
4
Im a mix.. White/native... I always put "human" on forms that request it..... Seems most appropriate
Redneckliberal
Level 7
Feb 18, 2022
2
You have just given me a wicked thought. I am ever so tempted to put "chimpanzee" in that box!
Well about half the people just say "refused" in that box, but I've yet to see someone enter "human" instead. I await that license to come through my desk!
It's a bit confusing because it is a religious affiliation as an ethnicity. Of course, a person can convert to a different religion but they can't convert to a different ethnicity.
I wonder what would happen if we just stopped labeling people by their ethnicity and just acknowledged that we're all just humans. Why keep track of people simply based on the color of their skin?
Charles1971
Level 7
Feb 18, 2022
1
I'm not sure my my state does, except maybe to keep track of things for curiosity sake. The license also keeps track of birthplaces, current residence, age, education level, gender, 1st, 2nd, 3rd marriage, etc., how previous marriage ended, divorce or death, etc. Could be they are curious how many Hawaiians are marrying Caucasians, Asians, etc., just for statistics.
Jews are an ethnoreligious subgroup. they are Caucasian. there are 4
races -- caucasian, negroid, mongoloid and native american
TheDoubter
Level 9
Feb 18, 2022
1
I've only had one client enter "Mongoloid" in that box, but several for various parts of Asia, some getting pretty specific in the region they're from. I also get a lot of "Pacific Islanders" and of course Hawaiian. People enter their race however they want. I get "Latin American" and "Mexican" a lot.
@TheDoubter "They" are not just Caucasian, sorry. Sammy Davis Jr. was Jewish. Lenny Kravitz is Jewish. Are Catholics just Caucasian too? Is Lutheran a race? Jewish is a religion.
@lerlo Judaism is a religion. but they are not negroid or mongoloid. ergo they are caucasian
@TheDoubter Then I guess you don't understand that people of any race can be of any religion.
@lerlo of cour
@lerlo ofcourse they can. the issue is whether jews are a race. they are not.
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