100% ad hominum, zero percent speaking of the issues i raised. shame on YOU.

you put out another long groundless ad hominum monolog, and continue to say nothing about the substantial issues,black criminality , thative begged you now twice to address. i think that makes you a hypocrite and an intellectual coward. schwish ........ strike two

@holdenc98 Disingenuous. You're out. It occurs to me that not only do you need to prove yourself, but that you also need to fight. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

@RhondaShotwell ............mostly i need to expose phony brainwashed idealogs, both right and left. we are blessed with both here on planet earth as we sink in the galactic sea. prove myself? not here. might as well go to the bronx zoo and talk with the chimps.

@RhondaShotwell ......who told you what disingenuous means? it that it i see written on your palm?

birds of a feather flock together. you and mr middle might be fine together. just...please ... don't reproduce

what we have here is a "chicken or the egg" agruement, and they are difficult to parce. yes its possible using tortured and skimpy logic, to come up with the concept of "white privilege" . of course it exists, its everywhere. i suggest that it follows naturally from white hard work (north carolina rednecks come to mind, in comparison to blacks ive observed), white "ass in seat at desk studying, a significant lack of backetball, no iconic worchiping of baggy pants, mac 10s,. rap gangster music. do you know what thje moynahan report is and says. won't you find the courage to speak of it in print? this is our issue. stop dodging it. you area smart chicken, but a chicken. im a truthful egg.

@holdenc98 Hard work is easy, for those who know that they will enjoy the rewards. If you know that the benefits will not be distributed evenly, you have every right to be resentful and obstinate in your rejection of it. To refuse participation in a very unfair system, is the very least form of passive resistence that can be given, and to do so without resorting to more extreme and violent measures is borderline heroics.

@holdenc98 And, no it is not a chicken and egg, but very certainly a cart before horse argument.

@Fernapple no one denies that american slavery (see tannanberg and stanley elkins monograph, SLAVERY, 1954) might well be the central element in the causation of the sad state of affairs exposed definitively in the MOYNANAN REPORT. thats a very long conversation for another day. right now lets focus on getting this ongoing agnostic tea party to acknowlege the most obvious but taboo facts .

@holdenc98 Which taboo facts ? If you mean that there is such a thing as black criminality and social problems, then I think that I have already addressed that.

@Fernapple ....com/must have been one of your micro addresses. maybe it will show up with a luminol reagent under ultra violet light

tweedle dum in league with tweelle dee.? ive heard that 2 half wits make a wit.

@holdenc98 Very well that is no problem, if you want a clear statement in childishly simple English, could you please tell me in plain English what it is that the MOYNIHAN CONGRESSIONAL COMMISSION REPORT says that interests you, since it is not something that I am familiar with, beyond the vague hints here.

@Fernapple .GOOGLE IT. ITS A major 20th century event

@holdenc98 No. I would like to hear your interpretation of it please.

@holdenc98 Come on, don't give up now, this could be the sart of a debate that could last us for weeks.

You are mistaken sir. I made no ad hominem attack. In fact, no one here has...except YOU! I quote: "morons," "cockroaches," "cowards,"...you owe us all an apology sir.

@Flyingsaucesir ...don't forget "dumb as a sack of hair. "---- that one is just for you.

@holdenc98
You do realize, I hope, that by engaging in such childish rhetoric you not only make yourself look silly, but also reveal serious weakness in your position. On behalf of all the interlocutors you have unfairly
maligned, I accept your surrender.

@Flyingsaucesir " interlocutors "...........enough, im impressed. do you have an i.q. that has been test measured? what is it?

@Flyingsaucesir, @TheMiddleWay all of this amounts to you discussing me and my personal characteristics, and that is thedefinition of ad huminum. i re stated the essence of the substantial issue that is one of the achilles heels of black lives matter. you continue to ignore that. im coming to believe its out of cowardness and/or conventionality.

want to be my doctor? i won't let you cut my nails till you show me some courage.

@holdenc98 If you will scroll down a bit you will find a rather lengthy response that I wrote to your post. You never responded or acknowledged it, and now you again accuse me of not engaging you on the issues. I'll wait for your reply to that comment before I say more.

@holdenc98 Never measured. Anyway such measurements are notoriously unreliable. The tests often contain all sorts of bias.

@Flyingsaucesir ....you and george costanza, taking that number to the grave.

@holdenc98 A gentleman never tells...

lets deal with your unsubstancial pashtiche of gobbledygook later. right now, i bite........what did lovecraft call his cat?

sorry, couldnt wait, i looked it up. lovecraft had a tortured life but always a free and unique mind

@holdenc98 Actually, he is right; there is no biological basis for what we call "different human races." In fact, there are more phenotypic differences among the individuals within a so-called racial group than there are between supposed "different" groups. It's important to get that straight at the outset of any discussion on race. Why? Because it obviates any temptation to ascribe different sociological or cultural differences to genetic differences. There simply are not enough genetic differences between, say, blacks and whites to explain the huge disparity in incomes, personal wealth, general health, representation in positions of power, etc., etc. So how do we explain these differences, if not by referring to genetics? Well, that's complicated, but any honest attempt to understand how we got here must certainly include a frank acknowledgement of trauma and systematic withholding of opportunity. Slavery was traumatic for the enslaved. The campaign of terror waged by the KKK on black people for generations was traumatic. (Imagine that your uncles and/or brothers were lynched, or your entire town was attacked by by a mob because of the color of the skin color of its inhabitants.) People do not get over such abuse overnight; it might take generations. And recovery takes even longer if those generations are systematically discriminated against in jobs, housing, education, access to medical care, etc. And so here we are. As I said earlier, we will not get past this history until we address it head-on, frankly and honestly. When we do, we will finally live up to the ideals that the founding fathers laid out in the Constitution.

You may find my reply to holdenc98 interesting...see above.

@Flyingsaucesir Thank you. The nature of racial categorizations is plainly apparent in the language. It is just so rarely examined, probably because it's so ingrained. I might be called "white" but my skin is far from the color of snow. And my friends who would be called "black" hardly have skin the color of the night sky. And there's such a spectrum of actual colors and traights that would get lumped into one category or another that it doesn't makes sense to use the terms "white" and "black". However this way of classification has become socially codified. From the beginning these labels where applied to skin color by an oppressive class who defined themselves with the label associated with goodness, light, purity, innocence, etc. The label they applied to the outside group, associated with evil, darkness and corruption, made their enslavement and dehumanization easier. I imagine that the outside group not speaking the languages and learning them after the labels establishment contributed. Now that the labels are so entrenched the solution is to appropriate them in this context (skin color) so that their original associations do not have any semantic bearing. This has been happening for some time and I imagine that today most people don't connote the moral associations of black and white in the context of labels supposedly referring to skin color.

Perhaps that is why it's easier for scientists to recognize it's artificial nature. Dealing in precise facts and measurements.

Ultimately, however, racism is self defeating. It's based upon exclusion and anger and rooted in the acceptance of false assumptions. If it weren't for the included oppression and violence I might pity them. Happiness and anger are not compatible and I imagine they are very unhappy. And hanging onto anger can be very unhealthy. Furthermore their world is smaller, poorer and more limited by their own choice.
@h -
The Moynihan Black Poverty report, if that is what you are referring to (there's also a Moynihan Report on Government Secrecy), address poverty in "black families." I am guessing you are pointing to the predominance of single mother families and trying to imply something. Of course this could be seen as the result of of any number of things. The most likely being a history of poverty and discrimination (Ruggles, S. (1994). The origins of African-American family structure. American Sociological Review, 136–151) or a different set of original cultural norms (McDaniel, Antonio (1990). "The Power of Culture: A Review of the Idea of Africa's Influence on Family Structure in Antebellum America". Journal of Family History. 15 (2): 225–238. doi:10.1177/036319909001500113. S2CID 143705470). If you mean to imply some inherent quality in a group defined socially and not by scientific objective criteria, then there is a contradiction in your implication. If it's inherent, i.e. based in biology, then there would have to be a biological basis for the "black" label. But there isn't. There is no gene or set of genes that are shared by member of any socially defined "race". Except the human race. Feel free to research this and quote a source in any reputable scientific journal that says otherwise.
@h - Anyway, take it or leave it. No matter- just gobble gook anyway.

@towkneed .not gobble gook , sir. gobble de gookl

thank you for these comments, and the attempt at thought . but it is all ad huminum and ignores the taboo heart of the matter that i explicitly begged for you to address. see my new comment above

this is ad hominum, but gentle and civilized ad hominum. im greatful for that, thanks.

im afraid i can't accept your though lineframing, the idealism/cynicism thing. have i stopped beating my wife? can't accept that either

you win the putin prize for honest candor

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

morons and cockroaches..............have to admire their persistence