I listened to "For Small Creatures, Such as We" several months ago on Audible. I enjoyed it. I hope she does write the type of book she mentioned was in her mind at some time in the future too!

Yes, the authoritarian husband and father doesn't fit in well with the nurturing goal our modern family structure. "The man is always right" is what I was taught as a child. That did me no favors growing up nor throughout my marriage. Had I been raised by a nurturing father, my life would have turned out much differently, for sure, as would many other men and women who grew up in authoritarian households.

@Julie808
Yes ... authoritarianism is a sad fact of the times we in which we find ourselves in America and in many unfortunate places around the globe.

@AnonySchmoose
The authoritarian impulse in humans had been tamed in pre-agricultural societies. They were fiercely egalitarian - not by nature, but by culturally modifying their nature. Agriculture and sedentary civilization were accomplished by hierarchical organization. It is built into the very structure of civilization. But it has devastating side effects, and I believe could be engineered out. But in order to do so we have to see and acknowledge its evolutionary roots. It won’t be an easy job.

If you set up fake sources of authority, such as scriptures, tradition, or even the supernatural, they will always be open to abuse by the criminally inclined. In part because they are bound to become degraded over time, and therefore mixed up to the extent that they will stand any interpretation you wish to place on them. And in part, because any fake authority is only needed by the criminally inclined, since good morality can, and does, find its own justifications. If you want to be an ultra conservative, or promote views based on a prejudice so bad that you can not find rational arguments, then your last resort is God. Whose mixed up scriptures and revelations degraded over time, are easily mined to support any view you wish.

It is moreover a bad mistake to assume that "scripture" and inherited religion, were made in the first place only by the morally most advanced and thoughtful people of their time, any time. Just as much of the scripture would have been written in the past by those with less than prefect intentions, as is written into the media today, by political propagandists and prejudiced hacks. The bible which is a very bloody book, spends far more time promoting crimes such as, genocide, theft by force, rape , racism, and zenophobia than it does moral codes such as "Don’t kill. Don’t steal. Don’t lie." being a perfect example.

Religious reform is a never ending maintenance task yes, and the foremost form of religious reform, is to abandon the old long corrupted forms of religion, like theist religions, which are now only of interest to religious imposters, in favour of improved and yet to be corrupted religions, such as human rights, environmentalism and democracy, for just three examples of many, ( Which do exist and are to some degree religious), continuing to give excessive respect to the old, merely because it is old, only sharpens the weapons of the criminal for them, and downgrades the moral debate of the current age.

And I am sorry but Russell does not make. "the same mistake here so many smart people do - the assumption that if I can think my way through complicated moral and emotional challenges, then everyone one else can too." Humans do not vary greatly in basic levels of intelligence, however much snobs may like to think they do. And the basic priciples of morality are not complicated, not rocket science, indeed they are not even, anything like as difficult as the maths of long division, which most people manage at school. The basics of morality are very simple, what makes them complicated and difficult, is trying to teach many conflicting moralities derived from many different sources, like biblical, all at the same time, instead of teaching basic principles and encouraging the asking of basic questions. Which is like trying to teach long division, while using several different number systems, languages and writting forms all at the same time.

I find many of the tales in the bible to be savage. I also find a lot of the history from the centuries around biblical times to be savage. I just had never thought about it before today.

It's my understanding that Bertrand Russell was a philosopher, not a scientist or a historian, but I might be wrong about that.

I didn't understand the interviewer's question to mean most people aren't capable of determining rational morals, but nonetheless I think Russell's answer was meant to encourage more critical thinking and rational thought, rather than just believing in things because one is told to.

I'm of the thought that religious values were created in and for very different times than we have now and either need to be adaptable or tossed out in favor of a better story and more pertinent values for contemporary society.

I think that as far as biblical values, they are so far away from where we are, that they are pretty much of no use to many of us. I think there is a growing number of people who think like me. Apparently you are not one of them, and that's okay. That's why I asked the question. Thanks for your response.

The idea of "savage ages", certainly is now considered politically incorrect, and would not be used today. But it would also be a very strange idea to think that morality was the only field of human life, in which there has been no progress or advancement in thousands of years. That would be to take a view much further towards the opposite extreme, and probably far more doubtful one than the one that I am sure Russell intended. While to critic a person in a different age, merely for using the language of his own age, is a very extreme ad hom indeed.

@Julie808
All great reasons for reform.
Religion needs to include training in scientific thinking. Science and religion make much better allies than enemies.

The scientifically conducted polls that I am ware of indicate that, world wide, there are a diminishing number of people who think like you. We are evolutionarily predisposed to religious thought. We can’t wish that away. Our only choices are to succumb to the lowest of our animal instincts or to fight the good fight of constantly upgrading the cultural counterbalance to those instincts. We can call that counter-effort whatever we like, but historically it has been called religion.

@Fernapple Yes, I think it was the word "savage" that struck me, as it's a word that has been applied by Christians to the native inhabitants of many lands they have invaded who simply had a different way of life.

For example, the missionaries considered the inhabitants of Hawaii to be savages, though they had a fairly peaceful way of life, except for some punishments doled out to breakers of the kapu, and not even those punishments were as harsh as nailing someone to a cross, or burning someone alive at the stake for imagining they are a witch, or cutting down a whole community for not believing a particular religion brought in from a different place and so on.

The word savage seems to have been co-opted and used almost like projection by religionists, who don't want to think of the basis of their own religion to have come from troubled times.

I wonder if Russell was right in his usage at that time, and if so why not now?

Maybe religionists need to hear that description of the times during the origins of their faith and compare it to its use when describing others outside their faith. A look in the mirror so to speak.

Yep, such as the "golden rule" and those mores and values existed before and without religion, though religion and myths can amplify those messages, we do need to take stock once in a while and see if they still hold value for us in the modern world.

But some of the laws, such as dietary rules, may have had some reason to follow them during those times, because of animal diseases or what-have-you, but those rules aren't followed now.

Biblical rules that seem patriarchal nowadays do not track well in an egalitarian society, when they were created in a time, or to create/preserve an era of gender oppression. There were egalitarian societies before biblical times, where women may have been revered even, but the bible smashed that outlook toward equality.

@Julie808 Agree. Just as we evolve so do our morals and values.

@Betty Thanks Betty. So many do not get this but look at swim suits form 1900 til now and you see it in action. It is obvious that no bible ever gave us morals and neither did any god.

Yes, his book "Why I am not a Christian" was the first book that caught my eye and I read fully through when I realized I was atheist. Thankfully many more books followed, but many of his statements still hold true to me. I think that's where I first read "If God made everything, then who made God?" I still use that reasoning, when confronted with dogmatic folks.

He was ahead of his time… but is now behind ours. The leading edge of science, anthropology, philosophy, and indeed, theology, now know a lot more than he ever did.

Good point, while the words "comes down from savage ages." are powerful, they are no fix-all, and my view is that given we are vastly outnumbered, those who sit on the sidelines, or hide their views under a rug are doing nothing whatsoever to help . . . . these theists must be confronted directly . . . . these people have hordes of indoctrinators who go out of their way to lead others astray, while people who do not buy into the bullshit are unwilling to step up to the plate, and that is why the world is what it is today.

If we be not bold dragon-slayers, we end up being the slain dragon.

@Archeus_Lore I've been taking a lot of heat for calling out the thumpers when I am confronted with them.
I don't care.
I'm not backing down anymore.
I'm not going to play nice while these assholes try to run my life with their bullshit.
Fuck. That. Shit.

@KKGator Exactly, these people will get all offended if you call their 2000 year old book a book of bullshit, but I am just as offended that they think it is some holy, sacred, "word of god". So far these "end times" assholes are doing their best to self-fulfill their stupid, self-destructive beliefs.