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Anyone with thoughts on the idea of a basic universal income for all? www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/25/scotland-universal-basic-income-councils-pilot-scheme

JayTea 6 Apr 26
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23 comments

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9

I would like basic universal heath care first.

@Renickulous Yes, and corporations making money off of chronically ill people in any possible way.

6

It may become necessary. We are on the brink of a new technical revolution. Machine learning and advances in automation will soon eliminate jobs by the millions. Already there are some factories without workers, stores without employees, and we now have self driving cars. Combine them and you have a nearly fully automated business. I can easily foresee exceeding 50% unemployment in 30 years.

I'm all for walkng talking warm sex bots too

@oldsinner111 um... ok?

6

I believe that a shift to basic universal income would take a radical shift in the world view for Americans who have been programmed since birth to believe that capitalism is one of the great pillars of civilization, along with democracy. This is rather ironic considering that the American system has morphed into a corporatocracy over the past half century and this subverts democracy and free enterprise. People believe that programs like social welfare are regressive but they readily accept the importance of corporate welfare in the form of tax incentives, grants and bailouts, it's very strange.
Steve Hughes presents the idea in a comedic way.

@McVinegar No they aren't but then they were never designed to work for humanities' benefit but the benefit of the rulers/owners/elites.

3

I have no problem caring for those who are unable to provide for themselves as a society if the criteria is carefully created and strictly followed for receiving assistance. Providing income to any and all encourages abuse of the system as we see every day in Canadian society now. If there is no reward for your efforts and no penalty for no effort then why bother working.

Absolutely agree!

3

It can work. The Finland trial showed no change to work habits. What it can do is create security for people who had none. People who lived week to week. And all that money goes straight back into the system. Not hidden in offshore havens. More disposable income means more business. So business wins as well = more jobs = more security. It does not replace income but buffers against the hard times.

3

Of course, I'm in favor of support programs for those who are unable to work due to debilatating injury or loss of mental faculties. However, for those who are capable, I'm more in favor of public work programs.

Well... public work programs is what the socialists call them anyway. Conservatives call them work for welfare programs. It's the same damn thing.

3

I'm quite fascinated with the idea but I'm not so sure about it in practice. I worry that companies would just target us to try to sell us more stuff.
I work in a job for pretty much minimum wage. I have bills to pay, like everyone else and then I get to decide what I can do with whatever is left over. This makes me quite thoughtfull over how I spend my money. So I don't spend money on alcohol, gambling or the latest bit of tat that the tv tells me I should have.
Tbh there's no reason that a universal income would change that but I worry that it would just be a bonanza for advertisers and business.
I think I'd rather see that £ being used as a community fund providing low interest loans for people on low incomes to pay for education or start businesses.

2

I would favor a good job for all who want to work. Free money without work might just entice some to just never work and become a parasite.

I think that a guaranteed income might give some young people the freedom to take chances and become entrepreneurs. Maybe the next Gates or Bezos will get their start because a guaranteed income gave them the safety to do it.

I favor a $15.00 per hour minimum wage. IMO we can make a job for everyone who wants one. @McVinegar

2

I am all in favour as long as us pensioners are included ?

2

The motivation for that seems to be that intelligent machines will someday to all the work, and people will be left idle with nothing to do. They have been saying that since the 1960's, but there is no sign of it yet. Unemployment is at about 3% here in the USA right now.

BD66 Level 8 Apr 26, 2018

There are signs of it all over the tech industry. It's actually a topic of some concern right now. There are a few factories in china now that have no human workers at all, amazon has been experimenting with a model store that would require no employees. We already have self driving cars and machine learning systems like IBM's Watson. Advance these technologies 10 years and combine them. You would have a company that is almost entirely automated. Production, distribution, retail, management, maintenance, logistics, stocks, the list goes on. All automated.

I was in tech for a long time, and I agree with you, the advancements have been amazing, the amount that can be manufactured per person has gone up a tremendous amount since the 1970's, but every time someone is freed up from manufacturing, there appears to be another job that pops up in the service sector to replace it.

2

It would help but be hard to create a fair n just system..because sometimes ppl are not in poverty because of income but rather choice or desires.

@McVinegar I understand but since I come from a whole family of drug addicts/drunks it's extremely in my dna but I don't allow myself vise's so I have a very low tolerance for anyone who says they didn't have a choice because biology so those ppl are the ones I was implying wouldn't be better because they would still choose the unhealthy/self desire choices over needs. I see it often on disability myself ppl crying n complaining about having no money to make it yet always buying beer or weed! Those ppl can't be helped if u gave em million dollars a year. Sad thing is someone would still have to evaluate each individual as disability does to make sure they did not need another person to be money giver. Ppl won't change so giving money to everyone considering the amount of addicts in America would really be wasted instead be better to build stuff like free hot food places or free or discount homes (fyi habbit for humanity requires good credit/lots of income to qualify for help). Possibly more disabled, veteran low cost housing units could help tremendously lift some poverty/starving issues as well. When rent is almost 1000 bucks a month and apartments require 3x rent lots of ppl end up homeless or bad situations!

2

It would be a start to equality, but still it allows to much control of what should be our natural right to a equatable proportion of the commons. Every person born should have this right and anyone trying to deprive them of it should be guilty of a crime. The commons are all of the natural resources of the Earth, we should not only have a natural right to an equatable proportion, but also be obliged to care for it and pass it on in better condition than we found it.

2

Apart from problems such as those suggested by @Fulishsage below the idea has merit. Granted people will work out how to rort any system. Aside from that, it can work no problems, it is just simple maths. The National accounts can still be balanced, less need for bureaucracy if you do away with welfare and personal tax. I simplified tax system is all you need.

2

I think one of the major problems is that ideas like this get corrupted so quickly. I like the idea of everyone being taken care of, but it never seems to work out. Maybe someday people will actually care about others.

Have you been following the standards of living in the Scandinavian countries? high taxing, but all are taken care of - seems to be working very well.

1

Believe it or not it is a right-wing idea that comes from Milton Friedman's 1962 book Capitalism and Freedom. The original idea was to replace the welfare state bureaucracy with a guaranteed income for everyone. Milton Friedman, the godfather of our all-volunteer military, was seldom wrong about anything. Unfortunately, as it is conceived now, guaranteed income comes on top of the welfare-state, not instead of it, and that is too expensive.

1

I would like to see a society like on star trek,where money is done away with. people choose careers,as fun choice.John Luke, a star ship captain,his brother runs a vineyard.
Our culture now is really based on the Feragie's,that is things are done for profit only.

1

Here's my opinion of the problems on this. How do you determine a basic universal income for all? In my area I can get by on $1500 to $1600 a month pretty easily. I can maintain what I have and own with this amount. You can't do that in St. Louis or Chicago. Is the basic amount for all going to vary and fluctuate so you can buy a new car to "keep up with the Jones'?" Will it allow all to be affording the same type of housing? My needs are smaller than many other people. They will need more than me. How do we determine a basic income for all?

1

I've heard is being experimented in 2 cities in USA - but also heard, ,is a fact in some Scandinavian countries and Netherlands. I can't see how a generic amount could succeed, maybe like enhanced Social Security?

0

Wow! A lot of intresting perspectives on this topic (my first posting on this site). Apologies for the link but the story is a about trials for a Universal Basic income in Scotland. I take the view that each human living in a wealthy society such as ours is entitled to basic housing, healthy food, access to education, medical care and a living wage. I also believe that, rather than become welfare dependant most people will be productive and yet free of the constraints of employment to pursue whatever takes their fancy. Eutopian vision? Perhaps but the economics of it are not silly as it may seem - for example, inefficient unemployment agencies and their army of bureaucrats tasked with enforcing job seeker "obligations" would no longer be required. The whole welfare system and its plethora of rules around eligibilities for benefits would all bit disappear.

0

your link not working. Would never get approved in US. Would be labeled socialist/communist.

0

just another scam

0

Are you serious?

Deadly serious...

0

Ruble? Everybody wants a single Everything but Nobody wants to be Communist!!!! Figures! Mankind!

@Renickulous I am not afraid of communism, capitalism isnt shining either.

@GipsyOfNewSpain Both have their downsides. I like free minds and free markets with an equitable distribution of the commons. I have been dwelling increasingly on the commons and how the air, water, earth and all natural resources are distributed to the individuals. In the past most countries have used the might is right theory, whoever has the biggest gun gets what he wants. I'm not convinced that this is a moral approach to the problem.

@DaveSchumacher Only question is do you want benefits of Communism without Communism?

@GipsyOfNewSpain I'm not sure there are many benefits of Communism, forcing socialism on everyone? Taking away the incentive to excel isn't what I have in mind. No, just the equitable distribution of the common resources of the Earth. Free markets among individuals without government interference (corporations are collusion between government and big business to mitigate liability).

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