@skeptic99 , you are a mendacious liar. Period!

@Trueblueroo Oh, come now, Trueblue. Getting all huffed up and calling someone a "mendacious liar" proves nothing except you are in over your head.

@skeptic99

We all can agree on a round earth.

damn it stop being the voice of reason when we want to get mad about something

@engineer_in_nj aka "irrational"?

@FrayedBear no.

I never knew anyone that tattooed numbers like that on their arms for fun

@btroje It was also seen as a very major violation of scripture.

So it was not only a way to keep track of people, but to try to make them feel very violated in one more way.

@BufftonBeotch just to have a tattoo of any kind?

@btroje For the most orthodox it possibly was.

I have been to Auschwitz and the Holocaust Museum in DC. Very moving, saddening, but so crucial to understand it. My kids (19 and 22 at the time) chose the museum when we were in DC. I was so proud of them.

@HippieChick58 My daughter when visiting sites of historic tragedies is impacted very emotionally.

Ford's theater - Vietnam War memorial - Andersonville

She will go off by herself and weep quietly.

She's also fierce when the need comes though.

@BufftonBeotch Sounds like a success story Mom

@Storybook It mis a sad fact that they do not even teach American history correctly just remember what you were taught about the American Indian. Most likely nothing.

When I saw GW Bush on YouTube say 9/11 could have been an inside job. The State and bankers I trust the least.
Politic Authorities are the most inhumane, intimating, thieving and murdering group on the Planet.

I'm Not a Holocaust denier, just researched facts that tell a different story about 6 million Jews Murdered.

@Storybook
I have a different perspective in life.
Two most important things for happiness is your health and what you can forget.

There is ZERO correlation between Trump supporters and those who question the Holocaust. Most Trump supporters are Bible Thumpers who have had it pounded into their skulls by their Baptist preachers that "God will bless them who bless the Jews, and He will curse them who curse the Jews." Thus, most Trump supporters are ardent Christian Zionists who support neo-cons like John Bolton and are all for going to war against Iran, Iraq or anybody else Israel demands.

I naturally assume that most atheists are capable of critical thinking. If one can think their way out of believing in the Bible, they should also be able to understand the false propaganda supporting the absurd claims of the Holocaust. The Holocaust myth is no different than the Book of Exodus or Ruth. Just another Jewish fantasy designed to enable them to get over on the goyim and control them.

@skeptic99 You don't know the Christians in the South. Christians don't like the Jews because they killed Jesus. Evidently you haven't been paying attention. ☺

@Sticks48 I beg to differ. I was born in the South. Other than six years spent in the military I have lived my whole life in the South. I was indoctrinated in a Fundamentalist Baptist church. I know these people VERY well. Many are my family members.

There are few Jews living in the South; as a result, most Southern whites have no personal experience with Jews. The only stuff they think they know about Jews is what their preachers have told them from the Bible. They assume that the ancient Hebrews are just like the Jews living today in the US and Israel. None of these people blame the Jews for Jesus' death. Listen to what preachers like John Hagee are saying. They are indoctrinating southern and mid-western whites into Christian Zionism, which is why the Republican Party is so strongly pro-Israel in its foreign policy. Jerry Falwell spent fifty years indoctrinating his followers to be philo-Semites. Virtually all Evangelicals are like this. Sorry, Sticks, but you are decades behind the times. You believe in a stereotype that disappeared fifty years ago.

@Sticks48 Do you live in the South, Sticks? I do. I grew up listening to Jerry Falwell. I know what these people are like. A lot of people in the North are familiar with Jews because Jews lie among them. They know them and come to dislike them. There are very few Southern Jews. As I have already pointed out, Southerners think of King David, and Moses and all the stories of the Old Testament when they think of Jews. It's all they have to go on. Southern and Mid-Western Evangelicals have no reason to dislike Jews because they have no personal experience with them.

@skeptic99 So, why do you dislike them? Your figures lie almost as much as you do. Please, go back to whatever fundie hole you crawled out of. This is not a matter of "looking at the evidence" so much as it is selective cherry picking of certain facts to promote your story. I still haven't heard you address the many US GI's that witnessed & liberated the camps. I have spoken to survivors, seen their tattoos, heard the anguish in their voices as they mourned lost family. You demean them & try to lessen the horror that was WWII & fascism! I can see why you voted for tRump, & I think you are disingenuous on your profile page as to why. I think you are birds of a feather!

Dachau was built before the war ever started. It was a prison where political prisoners, opponents of the Nazis, were sent. Communists, extreme liberals, Jews and other anti-Nazi activists were sent to Dachau. IT WAS NOT A DEATH CAMP. Proponents of the Holocaust now admit there were NO DEATH CAMPS ever located inside Germany. Proponents say the death camps were mostly located in Poland, which interestingly fell behind the Iron Curtain after the war so for decades it was impossible to go to any of the sites if you were from the West. Actually, the claimed death camps, like Auschwitz, were actually industrial work camps for the purpose of using slave labor (and local civilian labor) to produce goods for the war and the German military. This is why there were so many survivors from Auschwitz, such as both Elie Wiesel and his sister who were housed at two different "death camps," yet both of them survived both claimed death camps. Actually there were many thousands of survivors from these claimed factories of death. If six million Jews were actually gassed at these camps, then the state of Israel would not exist today, nor would there be so many Jews living in the US and Britain today.

Getting back to Dachau, it's worth noting that the only mass killings that ever took place there was when the US Army took the SS guards at the camp who had surrendered to the Americans and lined them up and machine-gunned them. Those who did not die immediately from the mass shootings were beaten to death with shovels by the Jewish inmates, including their guard dog. This actually happened. A book has been written about the liberation of Dachau and the mass killing of the German guards: "Dachau, Hour of the Avenger."[amazon.com]

"Alt truth" (a.k.a., a LIE).

Hitler greatly admired what European immigrants did in North America, clearing out an inferior people and taking their land to build a great new nation. The history of the US was the inspiration for most of his policies for Germany.

@skeptic99 Is that Hitler speaking or is that you speaking?

@Piece2YourPuzzle

It's true and known fact that Adolf Hitler studied many of the United States’ policies implemented against American Indian people, as models for how he would deal with Jewish people.

@Castlepaloma That's not my contention. Maybe you didn't "catch" the meaning of his words of which I replied. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

@Piece2YourPuzzle
I hope you are wrong, about what skeptic meant.

@CallMeDave I probably am. I shouldn't read into that statement like I did. I would ask him if he meant anything by it, but he doesn't seem to respond. Actually, I did ask him already.

This is typical. All the evidence you claim you have seen -- you have not seen. You have seen pictures of trivial things along with descriptions that suggest other things on a much grander scale. Once you really look at the evidence and engage your brain and ask basic questions, the Holocaust claims quickly fall apart.

@skeptic99 You can say that about most of history.

@PalacinkyPDX I never said it wasn't unique in history. I was just simply responding to the claims that there were "worse" atrocities.

@Piece2YourPuzzle

Yeah, like black salavery and native Americas genocide.

@skeptic99
Your assertion that "the foundational material supporting the holocaust comes from fictional accounts" is patently false and ridiculous. There are the testimonials of the survivors of the concentration camps, as well as those of the soldiers who liberated the camps. These are supported by films that were shot at the time. There are the artifacts, including written records and the camps themselves. The Germans (and Poles, and Hungarians, Armenians, Yuguslavians, and French, Begians, etc) were excellent records-keepers, and their own census data shows there were more than 6 million Jews in Europe before the holocaust.
By the way, to say you believe in climate science and evolutionary biology does not increase your credibility. Scientific facts are not things to be believed or disbelieved. Rather, the supporting evidence is to to be coldly assessed and either accepted or rejected based on its repeatability and logical cohesion. If the evidence stands up to scrutiny, then the conclusion it points to is accepted, always leaving the door open to modification if new evidence is brought to light. Emotion, belief, desire, caprice, and ideology have no place in either assessment of the evidence or analysis of the conclusion.
The emotion with which you write, together with your rejection of voluminous well-documented evidence leads me to suspect that you base your conclusions on ideology (conspiracy theory?) rather than facts. It sounds like you are looking for someone to blame the ills of the world (or your own misfortune?) on, and you have settled on a familiar old trope. Instead of wasting everyone's time with this nonsense, why don't you tell us what is really bothering you?

@Flyingsaucesir Well, Flyingsaucesir, I did not start this thread. HippieChick58 did. So the subject was not bothering me or on my mind. However, HippieChick 58 tossed it out there as a brief statement, a tactic it seems, to diss anyone who is not a conformist on this issue. It reminds me of Christians who say stuff like, "Jesus is REAL. Ain't it that a third of the people don't believe in Him?" I've looked at the evidence presented from both sides of this issue, and honestly, the arguments of the Christians, such as Creationists, are more convincing than those of the Holocaust promoters. Three things are going for the Holocaust story: 1. The story serves the interests of the establishment; 2. which results in massive group think; and 3. in most of the Western nations it is illegal to question any of the claimed truths about the Holocaust. So I get it that the majority of people believe in the Holocaust story. I'm surprised that a third of the people have doubts about it.

Regarding the evidence of the Holocaust, as I've pointed out already, the claims that were once made to support it years ago have been abandoned. Regarding Jewish global population figures over time, all the data I can find comes from Jewish sources, often directly from or cited from places like the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC or other organizations linked with the Holocaust. Data published in periodicals like Time Magazine cite the same sources. Pew Research has some numbers, almost all of which were based upon estimates and upon Jewish sources. One thing I did notice was there really were not that many Jews living in Germany, France and the rest of Western Europe at the start of the war. Most Jews fled Germany during the 1930s before the war started. The overwhelming majority of Europe's Jews lived in Poland, the rest of Eastern Europe and the USSR. The one issue that always sticks in my mind are the thousands and thousands of Jews who SURVIVED the Holocaust, who spent time at Auschwitz and other camps in Eastern Europe and who survived the ordeal and left Europe after the war and came to the US or Israel. If there was a methodical German industry devoted to the industrialized extermination of Jews, it was terribly inefficient.

@skeptic99 very well said. Stand by to be labelled a denyer, racist and nazi for stating some facts. I thought this site was for critical thinkers, maybe I was wrong.

@skeptic99, @TheMiddleWay I don't believe anyone is denying atrocities happened in the camps, but the scale is the question.

@TheMiddleWay Well, you're right there, a death camp is a death camp regardless of how many died.

Aren't there roomfuls of hair and sh-t?

I remember seeing people with a numbered on their arm as a kid.

I think very few survivors could exist to give testimony anymore. They'd have to have been very children at this point.

@BufftonBeotch I've been to Auschwitz. It's very sobering.

The problem is, the religious nutjobs who deny the Holocaust have likely never been out of their state of birth, much less travelled overseas.

They also support Israel not because of any altruistic streak or kinship with those of the Jewish faith (many of the racists hate Jews as much as non-whites), but simply because Armageddon won't happen (along with the Rapture) unless and until Israel rebuilds Temple Mount.

Hell of a way to run a foreign policy.

True. It was millions of others. Many more millions. Anyone sen as genetically inferior such as Down syndrome or many other things.

The brain washing was so deep that I understand many parents just handed over children deemed inferior to be killed on the spot.

Which is something I can not comprehend. The madness the can seize people's minds.

How can you love an idea of a shrieking madman more than your own child?

And I think Soviet citizens were in equal number to the Jewish people.

Slovaks----Romanians----homosexuals. Lots of others.

I'm afraid you underestimate greatly