THE AMERICAN IDENTITY. Risking the wrath of the majority of users on this site, I have a question for you. How long do you continue to say "I'm an Italian American", "I'm an American of German heritage", I'm a (insert whatever ancestor you wish) American", before you realise that you are just AN AMERICAN? That the culture of the land you were born/live in actually has more relevance. I find it hugely amusing to hear American still identify with people who left their homeland 3,4 or 20 generations ago, And then e.g. I speak to them in Italian and they can't respond. Blimey even the sacred George Carlin said it "Both my parent were born in Ireland so I'm 100% full Irish". I personally see it as almost an apology for being an American - "I'm an American but don't judge me because my nonna came from Sicily!"
I'm an American who again is embarrased with that piece of shit in Washington.
I feel your pain. Maybe people will start saying they're an Embarrassed American.
I think it's a catalyst fir racism. To say for example "African American" is wrong because we are all African. Homosapiens originated in Africa. We evolved into the way we look by our environment. White pasty skin where there is less sun. Dark skin and tightly curled hair to protect the skalp where there is more sun. I don't believe there is any difference in races other than that. If we stopped all that labling nonsense we could become a more cohesive country.
Let's not forget that the northern european homosapians interbred with neanderthals, which is where most of the genes for lighter skin and hair color come from. A fact I love to point out to white supremacy folks...
No wrath from me !
This way of personal identity has always bugged me. I still inwardly flinch when I hear someone say things like : "oh she's such a nice Mexican, Chinese, Black etc.(pick one) person .
Why not , just a nice person ??
And being part Black myself. it drives me nutsy to hear "African-American" - when in fact, only a tiny percentage actually have African roots. I suppose technically, we could all claim to be African - Leaky's cradle of man, and all that. Or perhaps another country that claims to have the oldest race of people. How 'bout Aborigines ?
Anyway , I agree with you. If you were born in America - you're American ! Simple, so it seems.
Well said. My kids are half Nigerian, but they're actually just British. I couldn't ever imagine a dual-heritage child here in England saying "I'm a British Nigerian" or "a Pakistani Briton", - sounds just a weird as it should do.
Seems most of us are such a blend it’s no longer specific or relevant.. Lost track of how many European nationalities I’m a blend of ...excluding some ‘American’ Choctaw
Exactly.
Not to be crude, but tracing your lineage in a patriarchy is a stupid move. One bad decision on your mother's part and you become half 'fill in the blank'
Yes, indeed, there's a book to be written on this subject, if it hasn't been already. And I'm going to risk even more wrath ... In our perverted attempt to be all-inclusive, we have made ourselves exclusive. In a search for identity, some sectors of society have actually cordoned themselves off. America is very peculiar in that sense. If you speak to a"black person" on the phone in England, or France, you'd never know they were black. They speak just like any other English or French person. There are exceptions such as 1st or second generation immigrants, but generally they integrate quickly. Africans, West Indians, Muslims, Arabs, Indians ... they all end up being British, or French, or German, with British, French or German accents. Is there racial prejudice? Certainly! There are insecure racists and neo-Nazi movements in every society, but the problem isn't so great and these are small and mostly insignificant minorirties. I originate from London originally, where "whites" are absolutely in the minority. It's a cosmopolitan society. I heard an interview on NPR where a "black" American worked in England and France and commented that for the first time in his life, he wasn't black. He was just another person. Americans are strangely loathe to integrate. Perhaps because the "Whites" are loathe to accept them? And what the hell is "white," or caucasian anyway? We're a mongrel bunch if you ever pick up a history book. We're pale, olive, ruddy, red-headed, blond, brunette with straight and curly hair, slim-faced and round-faced with varying nose and ear sizes ... We do need to stop talking about "Whatever American" and try to integrate into a single society that respects others' beliefs and complexions and works together for civil benefit for all. Sorry about the rambling and lack of coherence, but this subject pisses me off. I highly recomment a book and a movie. The book is "Sapiens," by Yuval Noah Harari - the most important book I've read in as long as I can remember, and the movie is "London, the Modern Babylon." I'm off my soap box now and promise to get a life soon.
A person's heritage is that which they identify with and can legitimately claim to be a part of. We all have multiple heritages we could claim, but we are not obligated to claim any of them. The choices are ours, and ours alone.
As an example, My family has lived in the deep south of the USA for over 280 years. The family was Methodist for a number of generations. I reject both of those, as they are at odds with who I am.I am descended from a mixture of German and Scotch-Irish ancestors.
At the same time, my DNA tells me that I have traces of African, American Indian (Pima or Aztec), Scandinavian, and South European (probably Spanish) ancestry That makes me identify with American melting pot. I believe in an American democracy and in ther principles on which that democracy was founded.. Most of my roots are here in this country. So, yes, I am an American and proud of it.
I'm only an American if you identify me by my birth country. I'm just a mutt. I'm not a purebred anything. I have no "race" to claim. My ancestors (the ones of whom I'm aware) identified as Irish, English, German and Cherokee. But, that really doesn't make me any of those things.
Exactly. We are all mutts. There are no "pure" people.
I'm pretty indifferent to it. I am in a mixed race marriage and in a very conservative town but I have to admit that most people don't say anything unless they are just making conversation and ask my wife where she's from. Discrimination is there because kids sometimes say hurtful things and she straightens them out. My wife runs the library and has three people working for her and for a while it was composed of four races. They joked about it a bit. We just don't make much fuss about it unless somebody needs education.
I'd go even further: I find it quite odd to describe myself as somebody from any nation or culture.
Often enough I find it hard to say "I am a human being", seeing what terrible, stupid, destructive things humans all over the globe are doing. I do not want to be a representative of them.
So what is saying "I am an American/Brit/German/etc" supposed to tell me beyond what country your passport is from? The whole matter will only reinforce prejudices: if you are american should I assume you love baseball, question evolutionary theory and probably have no clue where exactly Montenegro or Kyrgyzstan are located? I think not. And in my personal experience, no matter in which country I loved for a longer time, there was always a lot I shared, a lot I did not share and a lot I hated common there. The majority of the people in all these places did not represent me at all.
So saying "I am X" literally means nothing to me except telling where my passport comes from.
And the whole thing about "Italian American" is then consequently even more rubbish if not completely absurd.
I call myself American. I happen to be of Dutch and German decent, but that only comes up in conversations related to the subject, like immigration
In my opinion, the majority of folks that use (european country)-American as a designation do so to give themselves a sense of continuity. There is also the use of (something)-American to designate someone's skin color or culture. ( I don't use the word 'race' in this context, I believe it's too divisive).
The majority of Americans feel rootless. When you live in a relatively young country, whose traditions are a mishmash of traditions from everywhere else in the world or are made of whole cloth entirely it's easy to try to cling to something that gives you a sense of continuity. Especially when you look at places around the world where the same family has inhabited the same country, town or even building for centuries you strive to have the same kind of stability, whether or not it really means anything.
That's the feeling I've been getting, and I just want to reassure you that being just-American is fine with me. No need to explain further.
I think an apology is in order, because of all the death and destruction america has brought to people all over the world. Why the fuck is this country in every country of the African continent except 1? We're talking about killers with guns"soldiers", not the "PEACE" corps. This country is supplying saudi arabia with war making material to bomb the poorest countries in the world, somalia and yemen. Why? Whenever I go overseas I do apologize for the systematic racism and genocide that this country does in americans' names. In fact, I don't even classify myself as an amerikkkan, I am a citizen of the world, an INTERNATIONALIST.
We have our shame her in the UK too, as do most countries. That's why anyone saying they're "proud" of the chance happening of their birth is nonsensical to me. Thanks for you comments.
Hi, The sun never sets on the british empire. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I wanted to tell you that I wasn't angry with you I was just extra angry when I did that post. The american empire, british, french, italian, belgium, the old guard imperialist powers. I agree why would anyone want to be known as being from any of these.
My family left Scotland in the 1730s. I’m an American, or a Texan or a Utahn depending upon your perspective. I have German, French, Irish, austrian and English ancestors. I’m a mutt and I’m happy to be seen as one.
Maybe when your country becomes more culturally homogenous the use of the ancestral (now distant) adjective would wane. Perhaps more importantly, by then, in your country would race/hate crimes be a distant memory?
@WynnHorton My response was more direct to the question of identity between various cultural groups within the US. The OP was about identities of groups in the US, I was not trying to disparage the people of the US, Would you see a reduction when the country becomes more homogenous? With intermarriage, intermingling of communities, as communities get more prosperous and educated, (they seem to loose religious fervour) the ability to distinguish according to race, religion, culture etc should diminish.
Hate crimes happen in many places, I fear it is an unattractive human trait.
Nobody is "just an American". Just because you were born somewhere doesn't mean you should ignore your heritage and bloodline. I'm not saying you have to be super prideful, but it's nice to have that knowledge. I am American, but I am also Italian, German, Irish, and Native American. You say there is nothing wrong with just saying you're American, but there is also nothing wrong with saying the alternative as well. Do you see it the other way around too? If you say you're just American, then you are apologizing for being something else? Truth is the truth whether someone wants to ignore it or not.
Another thing I don't like is when you say you're Italian, but don't speak the language, and then someone who speaks Italian says you're not a "REAL" Italian because you don't speak the language. That's like saying you're not American if you don't like cheeseburgers, or if you were born mute, or if you don't know the words to the National Anthem.
Absolutely disagree with you. Your example of relating a cheesburger to language is laughable, similar dishes exist around the world, and if you're born mute you can still learn the words to the national anthem. How can you say ypu're Italian if you don't speak the language? Without knowing the language you can't understand the culture, or the nuances and delights of a country's history. So all it takes for you to be Italian, German, Irish and Native American is that some distant ancestor was? What do you know about those cultures? I'm trying to understand the mentality that thinks you are something without any effort on your part. What do you have in common with the people in Italy, Germany, Ireland or the Native Americans?
@GoldenDoll We will agree to disagree then. You don't know me or what I know about any culture. Most Americans don't know anything about their own country and how it operates.
What on earth is a "bloodline" supposed to tell about anyone? Saying that some ancestor came from some geographic region is completely irrelevant and tells absolutely nothing about a person at all.
@josmi6699 I think they use "blood line" to refer to livestock. Or slaves. Or inbred British aristocrats of course. ROFL.
It's a nice ideal to think we're all people of the same ilk, but in some ways we're not. Countries have cultures and practices that define their characteristics and influence the citizenry; any cultural anthropologist will tell you that. Those cultural differences can be quite stark and defining, and can be comforting to those still steeped in it. Think of how many large cities have a "Chinatown", or a "Little Italy".
Also, the States and Canada is only a couple hundred years old; the people who moved here came from countries with far more history than that.
Just adding perspective...
I agree with the newness of it - and reading the comments (what a lot!) I thin this is the key. Maybe we just need to give it time. I'm not arguing with the cultures that still exist in Chinatowns or Little Italys - the people who annoy me are the ones who say I'm an Italian German Czech French Native American and who have absolutely no knowlege or connection with these cultures, let alone the languages.
I used to say "I'm four kinds of white" when heritage would come up in conversation and that always got an amused chuckle (far more of a reaction than I'd ever anticipated, really!)--but I never had to qualify myself because my white privilege means when people look at me, they're vanishingly unlikely to wonder where I was born, or where my parents were born, or what kind of citizenship I hold, or where my loyalties lie, etc.
(fatfingered a premature send) Had I been born in this country with skin of a different color, I imagine I might have wanted to qualify my heritage as part of my identity--if I'd grown up part of a marginalised group, it could be a source of pride, a bulwark against hostility, an inoculation against doubt.
I personally find the practice divisive, but my perspective is no righter or wronger tham anyone else's and I would never begrudge someone else their choices in that regard. For myself i much prefer the British attitude, which I've read about previously. Britain has a long stories history of absorbing citizens from it's far flung colonies, so I can see how skin color, country of origin, etc. would be regarded so negligibly.
The difference for America is that it was started by white Europeans who slaughtered the red natives and brutalized the black slaves, so there was a time when the only legitimate American was a white American. (That's not to say this sort of thing didn't happen elsewhere, just that the timelines and circumstances were different).
Humans tend to be very clannish, so it's natural people would want to differentiate themselves--especially when they have very similar appearances (e.g. English vs. french vs. German etc.), as it was when this country was first settled.
Then we start seeing Americans of very different appearances (e.g. black, Latino, Asian, etc.) and it may become important for some, either on the sending or receiving end, to communicate exact identifiers (e.g. Mexican vs. Guatamalan, Japanese vs. Thai, etc.).
Again, I'm not into it, but I understand why other people might be, and I respect whatever is done in good will and good faith. I'm at heart way too radical for this phenomenon to carry much water anyway: I think nationalism is silly and myopic and ultimately not only unnecessary but also potentially harmful. I'm rooting for all the sentient beings:. not just the ones that look like me, not just the ones that think like me, not just the humans, and not just the ones on this planet.
I think your 4 kinds of white would have been met with a quiet step away from you in England.
So most of my ancestors have been here for about 150 years and they came from a wife variety of places. Added to this my grandfather was adopted so we have no clue about his family.
My whole life I have always told people that I am American because my family tree is way too complicated to say otherwise even if I wanted to.
With that said about 10% of people get furious when I say I am American instead of some bull like "quarter Irish...". Why this matters to some people is not something I can even pretend to understand but for whatever reason it is always non Americans who get worked up about it.
If you want to know why people claim ancestors so far back it is because of this. People won't accept American as an answer. This is their fault not mine.
Maybe once it's ok to be just American, this will change. Let's give it time.
I don't and never did. Recently I saw the value of doing my DNA, but lineage was not the thing I was after. It was interesting and somewhat anticlimactic. So now I know and so big deal. The medical and historical research value, now that was something.