81% trump - Surprise Surprise..

Good call, and accurate descriptions. Anarchists are the far-left zealots as Libertarians have become the regressive-wrongs equivalent. Both Extremists, with no logical or working alternatives…

Note, too, how many are ..or were relatively young men, close enough to their prime to possibly thrive in the environments you described. Though, not likely to make the kind of fathers capable of moving society beyond a subsistence or subservient level.

Often ex-military (cuz they couldn’t make it in civilian life), if gun hoarding angry misfits assuming, because they don’t like the concept of a god any more than any other authority figure, they might find a home amid Atheists and Agnostics. The good thing - they apparently don’t interact enough with society to give either Ath’s or Agn’s a bad name; the bad thing - we get to wade through them.

I’ve met them and described them on other threads.. They’re loners, anti social, don’t get along with others ..thus their ‘movements’ remain stalled in some ephemeral realm that’s fortunately not catching on

@BohoHeathen, thank you for that reference. While it was taken at one election and the Mormons, for the first time in recent history had one of their own to vote for, as did the black churches, I would think these numbers are fairly representative of religious breakdown.

Here is a 2016 breakdown of voters by religion, perhaps more telling.
[prri.org]

@BohoHeathen The stat that the same number comes from actually breaks down in leaning of ideology and only 38% are Liberal 38% are Moderate and 20% are Conservative. Trumps holding a 40~% approval rating. Its important that it was the 2012 election because Obama was very moderate leaning Democrat with the purely capitalist form of Universal Healthcare and temperament of illegal aliens. As opposed to the Harder left that is emerging now.

@Barnie2years We all know how those results actually turned out. They show Hillary winning by 9% overall. She only won the popular by 2.1% ((that's actually pretty good for a presidential race)). So right there you know their margin of error is at least a total of 7%. Which pushes Atheist from 62% to 55%. And if 90% of the people who voted against him still don't like him that means only 50% of the Athiest don't like him.
That is the sense I also get from my 400+ Facebook friends who come from all walks of life.

Love it when people have references. Thanks.

According to the pew research you cited for leanings atheist is pretty flat across education and income.

If you cite a source for one set ideas but don't use them to further your arguement ,because it doesn't, for another. I think in academia that's called cherry picking your data.

@Biosteelman

For brevity, I copied the main paragraph that answers the question.

Nobody wants to read a WALL OF WORDS.

So, I provided the links so people can read the article.

Atheists (I can’t speak for Agnostics) are realists. A worship of government? Bullshit. How about the acknowledgement that since society governs itself with elected representatives - we find it imperative that we be represented?

It’s the lazy man’s out who discredits the ongoing efforts to confront those who’d have us burned at a stake..

@Varn

Governments don't burn people? Hiroshima, Nazi Germany, Waco Texas. How many people have been killed in the streets by governments? How many people have been starved? How many families have been broken up violently?

When you say "we", I hope you are only speaking for yourself. Otherwise its simply manufactured consent, which is not consent at all. Its totalitarianism. Only the individual can govern himself. If the individual is not able to govern himself, then how can individuals govern millions of people justly? They cannot. As far as representation, which one of the last few wars did you vote for? How many stimulus packages to banks did you vote for? How many times have governments oppressed the will of the people who supposedly keep it accountable?

If you give your full support to a government that you do not work to keep accountable, do not question its 800,000 non-essential employees, illegal taxation or endless thirst for power and war; then you absolutely do worship at the alter of government.

Im sorry this upsets you. If you were truly a realist, you would see it as obviously true. Not all atheists are realists, but cool story. In your beloved society, Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

@BryanLV Government: “the governing body of a nation, state, or community.” Mine emanates from We, The People.

“Only the individual can govern himself.” ...yet another ‘libertarian’...? Personal behavior is far removed from ‘nation, state, or community action.’ Assuming you understand how ‘our government’ works.. It’s collective, (usually) representative of the majority … it’s why we’re not constantly battling it out in the streets

“If you give your full support to a government that you do not work to keep accountable ...” Right there - I do work to keep my government accountable - and, working for the best interests of my nation. I’ve spent far more time than most doing just that. But it’s living, breathing, non-active citizens who allow their nation to make mistakes.. ‘Government’ is not alive, it’s a political framework - but advocating it be ignored or blamed is idiotic.

You either participate - even if you lose - or you decline your opportunity to have a say. Those of integrity participate, the rest apparently bitch

@Varn

If you believe that you are a part of the decision making process and government respects you as we the people; I have a bridge to sell you.

Government is a group of people. Nice try though. Make believing otherwise is idiocy.

The greatest majority is the individual, who under democratic or rep democracy, is repeatedly violated by the violence of the ignorant mob. There is actually a separate option, educate people of their errors, that voting is violence and that govt accountability is a myth.

@Veteran229 Beyond convoluted rhetoric … what’s your alternative to city, county, state or federal government..? ..cuz I’m not impressed with those who only pipe up to complain.

@Varn

Im not opposed to any of those, even though they are not even real. States and counties and even cities are just legal fictions. A community of free people should always interact voluntarily, not through coercion and violence.

As for my solutions, I might have shared them with you, but im not seeing a good reason to share more information with someone who labels sound reasoning as convoluted rhetoric. Even though you have typed a lot, you have only stated your preferences. You havent shown anything ive said to be untrue.

So seems like a waste of time.

@BryanLV As long as my vote’s counted - I have a say. Do ‘the people’ respect me? They do, I’ve met them..

“Government is a group of people. Nice try though.” ? ...still laughing.. Our government is a political framework that reflects the will of those who vote. Do you vote?

“The greatest majority is the individual” You’re serious? A majority of one

And, “There is actually a separate option, educate people of their errors, that voting is violence and that govt accountability is a myth.” That, Dude - is Religion ~

@Varn

First time ive heard education described as religion. Actually, your dogma of the state, that has proven throughout history to fail over and over is the religion. Its called Statetheism.

If government is simply just a politcal framework, then I suggest a machine government and a vote that only includes those qualified in a certain area, along with a heavily weighted machine vote.

Funny, there have been plenty of popular votes that have lost. Voting is violence of the ignorant mob. It does not work, so based on this discussion, I could actually envision you doing it repeatedly hoping for results.

@BryanLV ...I’m not worth your time, yet here comes more..? Like this: “States and counties and even cities are just legal fictions.” They are the means by which we establish accepted limits on individual behavior, protect ourselves and property, maintain our infrastructure and negotiate with other nations. The crew diligently keeping our mountain roads clear of snow & ice are far from “fictitious”

You continue: “A community of free people should always interact voluntarily, not through coercion and violence.” No one’s ‘forcing’ me.. And our Sheriff's Dept. is doing great keeping local violence to a minimum, with some occasional court enforcement.

And, “As for my solutions, I might have shared them with you, but im not…..” In your own words, “Nice try” You can respond immediately, with total condemnation … but are unwilling to share your ‘solutions?’ How convenient

Yet more: “You havent shown anything ive said to be untrue.
So seems like a waste of time.”
You basically called anyone working to make a difference in our political reality the equivalent of a religious fanatic. Gone on to preach a philosophy you’re incapable or unwilling to describe or share - then ask me me to ‘disprove’ your ephemeral aspirations as though I were disproving the existence of a god… Appropriate, perhaps, but as hollow as any Religion I’ve heard of.

@Varn

You are wasting your time. Your efforts are wasted and your vote does not count toward anything meaningful.

Keep up the work!

@Veteran229

I love how statetheists pretend that if government was illegitamized, that roads would go into disrepair, houses would burn down, everyone would die from poisoned food, and humans ib general would simply just cease to organize themselves intelligently once the kind hand of govt ceased to force them, steal from them and coerce them.

Its the most infantile argument of them all. Completely childish.

@Veteran229 A Tag-team

“Force compliance is the basis of every government ever created.” - not in my nation.. Which, likely remains the problem - people too lazy to vote! And, rhetoric like that you’ve glommed onto plays into the hands of those looking to suppress voter turnout - as they motivate their ignorant minions..

“Human nature is to resist force.” - that very much appears to describe your nature. Mine is to channel force, while using it for good. Takes a lot of force to maintain our Interstate Highways.

“To assert government at face value is the answer is false assertion.” And, it’s an irrelevant statement.. You, and too many others around here, assert government is a living entity worshiped by anyone participating in it’s regulation or makeup. Government is how we govern ourselves ...prettymuch - period

You state: “The end game eventually find a balance between free market and government, with the satisfaction of the people.” - Agreed.

Followed by: “The imbalance comes from government failing to find the middle road for market regulation, as well as not trampling the rights of the people. Government never gives up power once it has taken it.” -- Let’s try something here:
‘The imbalance comes from [The People] failing to find the middle road for market regulation, as well as not trampling the rights... [The People] never give up power once they have taken it.’ - And, they shouldn’t.. It’s how we keep it together as best we can. If we, the people, forgo our opportunity to participate in the framework that binds us - it’s chaos. Which - is what I fear our gun hoarding brethren either anticipate, or desire..

Just like the slave. "Whats the matter boss, we sick?"

Doesnt seem to recognize that he is one of the ignorant minions he mentions.

Funny.

@BryanLV @Veteran229 Yes - a Tag-team

Obviously my nonsensical statement/s hit nerve! Yes, it’s an inside day … but how much of this I care to waste my time on is.. Waning. ..so, who first, and are we getting anywhere..? Let’s see

“You are wasting your time. Your efforts are wasted and your vote does not count toward anything meaningful.
Keep up the work!”
As suspected, but thanks ~

Whoops, missed this: “Voting is violence of the ignorant mob. It does not work ...” Really..? I see it working daily! Not always as I’d like, but often close. And when it doesn't, I work to correct it ..not condemn it.

“Governments bottom line is it gets to come to your door with guns. Consented force. It gets to use force and fear.” -- If the people ever feel it’s necessary to send their representatives (police) to my door, I trust I will have earned it. Actually, ‘they did,’ our Sheriff, acting as a trustworthy agent of my community, recently visited. We talked for around 45 minutes ...didn’t have to tell him he’d gotten my vote.. We talked of his brother, sailing the world ..while wondering why ‘his brother’ was risking his life as a cop … why I’d gone to college to do the same, and fruit trees.. We’ve met in other venues, but he’s got a job to do, and I let him.

“Most federal social programs are derived to only benefit a few. Which in itself is discrimination. A true social benefit is one that benefits every person.” -- Keeping our families & workers healthy benefits everyone. If we need assistance, it’s there; if not, it’s there for those who need it.

“when the government exceeds its bounds, force becomes needed to meet the resistance.” -- When government becomes excessive, it’s pared down; though Republican rhetoric, often implemented by Democrats. If I’ve fear, it’s of the ignorance and coercion of those who vote … when the rest of us are discouraged to..

This: “Your problem is not your lack of thought, your problem is not having a complete thought. Too see beyond what is present and exploring multiple avenues. A sort of tunnel vision so to speak, or assumption of things at face value.” - and this: “Doesnt seem to recognize that he is one of the ignorant minions he mentions.” -- is called Projection.

[edited to remove wacky faces and crap associated with highlighting text]

@Veteran229 Clinton’s Welfare Reform. And yes, you were projecting ..and I’m still smiling ~

Hey, it’s been interesting, and I appreciate you sharing your feelings ..but I should get more done today than ‘this.’ Stay warm ~

So we're Atrumpists? What if Trump is an atheist (since he doesn't really believe in anything)?