There may NOT be life on other planets
I have always been under the impression that life pretty much HAD to exist on some other planets if it existed here. This planet is such a minute speck in the universe that it can't be the only port of conscious life. Or can it? Enter NOTCH2.
NOTCH2 is a particular gene sequence in chromosome 1. Its' purpose is to create an enzyme that allows stem cells to keep replicating themselves instead of differentiating and splitting. This gives it control over the base population of outer radial glia cells that will subdivide and populate the neocortex. Thus, it regulates neuron density in the brain.
Somewhere around 14.5 million years ago (MYA) the NOTCH2 genome of the ancestor to ALL great apes replicated itself elsewhere on the chromosome. This isn't unusual and is how many genetic abnormalities begin. In this case the extra piece was merely a useless fragment. That fragment lingered around in the apes after orangutan split off and remained dormant for 11 million years.
Once this ancestor split into apes, chimps, and hominids something special happenes. Around 3-4 MYA the extra NOTCH2 fragment copied over and repaired itself - creating NOTCH2NL which multiplied neuron density. From 3MYA to approximately 500,000 years ago NOTCH2 went on to spur 3 more active sequences on chromosome 1. These are known now as NOTCH2NLA,B, and C respectively. Each of them also increased man's neuron density appreciably.
Overall I have seen numbers ranging from a 4x to an 8x increase in neuron density as a result of the replication incidents. I believe the answer to man's consciousness lies there as does the fate of those "probable" alien life forms. Carbon-based intelligent life as we understand it may be more of a statistical oddity than we realized. It may actually not be possible absent the NOTCH2N incident.
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12 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Okay... So other planets may not achieve Lancelot Link status... Perhaps things will be different for them! Perhaps they will be based on silicone instead of carbon. Perhaps they will not be using RNA or DNA.
There must be life out there!
RiverRick
Level 7
Sep 14, 2019
0
Listen folks ... given the fact that we can neither travel nor otherwise perceive life unless it is intelligent life I don't honestly consider unintelligent life to be the issue.
@JeffMesser As THAT is the problem on the rock we are stuck on!
Your headline should read " intelligent life" not just life, since that is what you are talking about, that is not a very intelligent headline. The rest is very interesting, pity that spoils it.
Though it has to be said that there may be more than one genetic route to high intelligence, and there are certainly examples of convergent evolution on this planet, heading in the direction of high intelligence. The octopus for example, which may be more intelligent than many mammals yet whose ancestry split from their's long before brains were highly developed.
Fernapple
Level 9
Sep 14, 2019
1
Listen folks ... given the fact that we can neither travel nor otherwise perceive life unless it is intelligent life I don't honestly consider unintelligent life to be the issue.
@JeffMesser Yes but you did not say, perceivable life, either.
Sorry to be pedantic, but I have got used to arguments with theists, and I know that it is good practice to always be exact, because they will deliberately misunderstand, whenever they think that they can get away with it, even though that is very close to the well known fallacy. "I can't understand it therefore it is false."
@Fernapple so what I read you saying is that theists have made you close-minded and myopic about things and you just expect the rest of the world to accept that? YOUR view only works in a universe consisting of you and theists. The universe inhabited by the rest of us would like an opportunity to respond as well.
@JeffMesser No I am not close minded and myopic, but in whatever I do like exactness.
@Fernapple saying you require exactness IS being close-minded and myopic. I think a lot of you need to analyze yourselves better. it's no wonder you're stuck at this point in life.
@JeffMesser Exactness is not a property, but a quality, and being stuck means failing to advance to higher qualities.
I am sorry we got off to a bad start, and so I will man up and admit I was a bit quick to critic a small fault, because it was late at night and I was washed up and grumpy. I should know better, I learned early not to post or comment when drunk or worn out, because standards tend to be high on this site. Now are you man enough to admit that your intro. was a bit sloppy, and then we can move on ?
@Fernapple I can certainly see a point in saying "intelligent" life because I didn't really think about just flora and fauna. But finding microbes on Europa isn't really the point of my observation. I don't mind saying I did something wrong. I do things wrong all the time. But I don't like to completely dismiss a point unless I've given it due consideration. I don't know of any tech or red-shift conclusions we can make to ascertain their existence ... my assumption was based upon a detectable sign from superior intelligence. I do like the thought of concurrent evolution on other planets also. with the same cosmic material available there as here I'd expect concurrent evolution. I know it's probably the more intelligent-sounding argument to say "well they would not all be the same blah blah blah", but why wouldn't they? We have divergent conditions on earth also where all elements aren't available and weather is extreme if not completely inhospitable. Who's to say our ecosystem didn't capture all the attendant variables that could be shifted to their extremes while still accommodating life? it's arguable.
@JeffMesser Yes I have often thought that, that is why even microbes on Europa, or fossils on Mars would be so interesting, because we could possibly learn if they had any convergent evolution with our microbes, and if they use the same or similar DNA codes, or even RNA , or something quite different.
Haven't really got a clue what you are on about but a planet has been discovered recently which is in "the goldilocks zone" has a temp between 0C and 40C and has water in the atmosphere.
How the boffins can ascertain this is beyond my comprehension but if they are right there must be millions of similar planets in the universe, so it is very likely that there is life out there. Whether "it is life Jim but not as we know it" is another matter.
Moravian
Level 8
Sep 14, 2019
1
Listen folks ... given the fact that we can neither travel nor otherwise perceive life unless it is intelligent life I don't honestly consider unintelligent life to be the issue.
Or it was never dormant, or mutated to create even higher density. Or or or. So many possibilities.
Be nice if your headline matched your conclusion, too. 
1of5
Level 8
Sep 13, 2019
0
Listen folks ... given the fact that we can neither travel nor otherwise perceive life unless it is intelligent life I don't honestly consider unintelligent life to be the issue.
1of5:
@JeffMesser well la de da. Listen up dude, life existing elsewhere is what's known as a big fucking deal, no matter your little opinion.
Intellegent life can exist without being technologically advanced, also.
And furthermore, there are biomarkers that enable us to detect life on a planet that isn't intellegent - much like the purpose the internet serves here, for the most part.
I can see the religious saying this proves there is a god and we are 'his' select ones. However, since they don't understand science they probably won't understand this idea.
There is another dimension that hasn't been discussed. It was covered in the Humanist Magazine and covers the idea of stages species must go through to survive. It is inferred that this is universal. [thehumanist.com]
JackPedigo
Level 9
Sep 13, 2019
0
yeah thats an excellent point. I think there are many different ways to categorize the stages or levels life must achieve to break through certain barriers. they are all based on the elements and rules of the same universe as ourselves, however, so the issues of cause and effect would be the same as long as they are at least 3 dimensional beings living minimally in linear space-time.
@JeffMesser Have you heard of the theory of multi-verses? [space.com]
Just as it is posited that "Life as WE know it"may not exist elsewhere in this vast Universe IT is only, imho, Human arrogance to think that we are correct.
Who is to state definitively and empirically that, for example, IF the Asteroid Impact that killed off the Dinosaurs around 65 Million Years ago did NOT happen, thus giving rise to the reign of mammals, that the Dinosaurs themselves would NOT have continued to evolve, become the intelligent, dominant Life-form on this planet?
Is it NOT possible that the descendants of the Dinosaurs COULD have become a type of bi-pedal, upright walking Homo-Reptilian creature with arms, hands, opposable thumbs, intelligent, inventive, creative, society forming creatures and our early mammalian predecessors simply continued on running away and hiding in the underbrush instead of evolving into the many and varied forms we see today?
Just because life here on Earth looks like we see it does NOT mean,simply, that it MUST be that way everywhere else in the Universe.
Evolution is NOT a straight forward, straight line process by any means,it IS full of twists, turns, back=steps, side-steps, cross-overs, dead-ends, restarts, etc, etc, the environment/s that life evolves in and from are a great determining factor as to how that life eventually develops and evolves through time, etc.
Yes, Genes, DNA and RNA play a very important part in ANY life-form BUT it is HOW those Amino Acids combine that actually sets the blue-print and activates the evolutionary processes, e.g. One can bake a cake today using every exact ingredient and precise measure of the same BUT tomorrow and under entirely different conditions,etc, those self same ingredients and the self same recipe MAY result in something entirely different.
That, in my opinion, is the SHORT explanation of how evolution works, ergo, LIFE, entirely different and beyond our very limited PRESENT comprehension could very well exist elsewhere in the Universe and be as different as fire is to water but still be intelligent, etc, etc.
Triphid
Level 9
Sep 13, 2019
0
well, intellectually I agree with your logic up to a point. But what you fail to consider is the far-reaching effects of cause and effect throughout the universe. No matter what biological contraption any ecosystem can devise they must all adhere to the universal laws of cause and effect in 3D space-time. Those laws react with the elements of the universe in universal ways so many of the processes and the resulting adaptations will be very similar if not identical. I know it sounds all intelligent and foreign and exotic to carry on this line of yours, but truth be told you can just compare concurrent evolution in different areas of our own planet to disrupt your train of thought. We have enough diversity in our own environment to show you concurrent evolution would happen in similarly inviting conditions with nothing in the non-inviting places.
@JeffMesser Does not man decide that these 'so-called' "Laws" of the Universe exist simply because man needs to rationalize, organize and normalise everything into terms only he comprehends and understands?
For example, Humans deemed that there MUST be 60 seconds in every minute, 60 minutes in every hour, etc, and called it "Time," but the birds, animals, etc, have NO real concept of seconds, minutes or hours, etc, all they see and live by whether or not it the light of light or the of dark, is that not so?
Ergo, man THINKS up these 'Laws of the Universe' and expects them to adhered to by the Universe itself, BUT the Universe is NOT as well an ordered thing as we seem to think it should be, it is more often than not found to be chaotic, irregular and unpredictable.
Astronomers have shown that in our own Solar System there is one planet that rotates on its axis opposite to the others, is that not a blatant breach of these 'Laws' of the Universe?
Who knows for absolute certainty what other 'breaches' of these human-made Universal 'Laws' are occurring elsewhere in the vast and still unknown Universe, what these 'breaches' of these so-called Laws laid down by humans can result in elsewhere NO-ONE really knows but just because certain conditions happened on this tiny and insignificant hunk of rock we call Earth to create life as WE know it does NOT mean that EXACTLY the same conditions and effects MUST occur everywhere else, to assume that is Human arrogance at its greatest in my opinion.
To simply state that because A+B =C here on Earth it MUST also be precisely the same everywhere else, am I not correct?
Well, there is the possibility of panspermia: [en.wikipedia.org]
Joanne
Level 7
Sep 13, 2019
1
@Druvius Listen folks ... given the fact that we can neither travel nor otherwise perceive life unless it is intelligent life I don't honestly consider unintelligent life to be the issue. But concurrent evolution on our own planet would let us assume similar conditions in alien environments with similar conditions.
Why aren't you extending the "if life exists on Earth, then life exists else" idea to the genome? That's the whole idea of convergent evolution, similar things evolving independent of one another. Birds and bats and certain insects evolved flight independently. Sugar gliders and flying squirrels evovled gliding independently. Bats and dolphins and whales all evolved sonar independently. Leaves, flowers, thorns, and many other plant characteristics evolved numerous times in numerous different species of plants that aren't related.
Pretty much anything that has happened has a possibility of happening again, even gene sequences.
FatherOfNyx
Level 7
Sep 13, 2019
5
You're speculating about the probability of specifically a human-like intelligence appearing on another planet, not LIFE, full stop. It's also pure speculation as to whether this genome mutation is THE cause for human consciousness. This is a very humanocentric view to say the least.
You state that the occurrence of the original mutation of the notch genome is not unusual. Why assume that the further mutation would be unique in the universe?
All primates exhibit self-awareness and consciousness. Apes have communicated in multiple languages and have a concept of themselves as individuals. Human mentality is an evolution but not a revolution.
The appearance of life itself on a planet is an incredibly unusual event, where the odds are amazingly low, but it takes only one lucky chance. It's the equivalent of the Irish Sweepstakes; imagine you're holding 100 trillion tickets and need only one winner to take it all. Even with those chances, not every planet will win, but at least some will.
Once life appears, evolutionary pressures will tend to make that life more complex and tend to push predator and prey species to become more intelligent. The history of Earth suggests that life everywhere takes the same path, once the first very lucky step is taken. So, the odds are that there is life at least somewhere else, and the odds are that this life is intelligent to some degree.
Paul4747
Level 8
Sep 13, 2019
4
babyhumanist
Level 4
Sep 13, 2019
2
Given the age and vastness of the universe it is not a surprise that no life has made contact with us or that we have not yet been able to find evidence of it, either current or past.
It's the Fermi Paradox that fills me with a sort of existential dread
babyhumanist
Level 4
Sep 13, 2019
2
You might want to read this. [thehumanist.com]
@JackPedigo Thank you for that article. I agree 1,000%.
But I'd argue that the reality is much, much worse now. That piece is 4 years old. Since then, Christian Evangelicals and Dominionists have managed to get a POTUS elected who is a useful idiot for them, and he has filled his cabinet with Christian Evangelicals and Dominionists.
Not only don't they CARE about the long-term survival of the planet, they want to HASTEN the end of time.
Jesus fucking Christ. I mean.
@babyhumanist The end of time for humans (and thousands of other species). Fact is this has happened before but the the difference now is the cause of the problem is included. I remind myself the 2 basic drives for all life is procreation and survival. We are conscious of our mortality, hence religion, but the procreation drive will be the one that finally upends us all. We are not as smart as we think and, perhaps, thus are not fit for continuation. We are not the center of the universe or even this planet.
BTW, I have been to Madison several times for the FFRF conventions. Neat place (except the winters are brutal).
Enjoy being online again!
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