Absolutely correct ! A friend of mine own Mother stop talking to him because he was excommunicated. Absolutely unacceptable!!

I have asked her about this and she assures me that they do not encourage members to leave their husbands. In fact, she cannot be shunned even now as she has not been baptised. It is only baptised members who leave the faith that are shunned.

Not defending them, believe me!, but just for clarification.

Regarding their interfering in our marriage, I told her a long time ago I was concerned about that and she asked the "sisters", who assured her that the bible only approves of divorce in cases of adultery or abuse, and also that it encourages women to obey their husbands in all things (although I doubt this includes my telling her not to become a JW!). So, no danger of their trying to split us up or convert me.

@Gerard103 Oh, she's not baptized yet. I see. Sorry, but what I said stands. Once she's a full member, things will change. Marriages that happen outside of the church aren't considered "church ordained" and your relationship will be fair game. You can fully expect to feel that pressure strain your relationship once she is baptized. Perhaps even before then. It seems as if some of it has started. I would like you to mark my words, so that if/when we have a conversation about it in the future we can point to what I've told you here. Best of luck and I hope you're able to find an outcome with the best possible result for your family's well-being.

You go Dad!!!

Thank you, this touches on another problem I have, outside of any friction related to religious differences; my wife is a controlling person and treats me as if I am her child. This came about since I moved to Italy, as I was a reasonably confident person in my own country but arriving here I didn't speak the language or have the confidence to handle all the stuff we have to take care in our daily lives (including many tasks that would be traditionally seen as the man's role). So my wife had to take responsibility for many situations, and looking back now, she became the "man" in our relationship, as well as the woman.

I have allowed this to go on for far too long, and it is difficult to see myself putting my foot down at this point in our relationship.

This feeds into my belief that the JW cult appeals to people of certain personalities, including people with a need to control others.

@Gerard103
They are narcissists, according to both of my therapists my mother is a malignant narcissist. Even though my dad was at home with us, he traveled for work. So mom was in charge and we had to go to their hall and we had to do the “JW” meetings. When dad was not home mom ruled the house.
My mom scarred us big time, she used the “JW tactics, which means that you are never good enough because Jehovah needs all of your time, and it will never be enough”. These are the most mentally unstable people. Most battle depression.
Narcissists will never admit that they have done anything wrong. They are always defending their ego. Educate your daughter about cults.
My friend “Get your balls back.” There was a time when you were not able to speak for yourself because she had to do it for you. I understand what happened, but that was then... time to blossom and set your boundaries. One suggestion, there are several documentaries on JW’s that are good to be aware of. I would ask her if she is open minded enough to watch something with you. No one wants to think that they are not open minded so that would be a chance for you to open a dialogue. I would suggest that you watch them first. You are elephant strong!

He lives in Italy and needs encouragement and diplomatic training to make love more worthwhile for his spouse and child more cherished than the THOU SHALT NOTs of Jehovah Witness cult activities

@Larry68Feminist How do you know what he needs? And how is this a response to my comment?

@JustAskMe read again what he is asking for.....there may not be 2 single Atheist women here a key stroke away in Italy who want to be a stepmom to his daughter in Italy discounted your claim of THOUSANDS

@Larry68Feminist Read MY comment again. You have misunderstood it entirely.

@JustAskMe I read no encouragement in Italy to solving his PROBLEM to preserve his marriage or marry a local Italian Atheist ....his name page mentions a tiny Italian village....you think Atheist women here are going to relocate overseas and marry a forlorn 41 yr old divorcing dad of a young girl likely to lose custody as a resident alien ???

@Larry68Feminist We don't know, do we? We don't know who or what is available in his area or here. And really, I'm asking HIM not you.

@JustAskMe I private msg him and several people here have given him their DIRECT EXPERIENCE with JWs....you mean well and if he succeeds for his and daughters sake, the JW bride will make her choice in their family

@Larry68Feminist - Are you under the impression that I am suggesting he stay with his JW wife? If so, you are incorrect. As I said, and as you have apparently misunderstood again, my original comment states " .... believe "chronic loneliness" will be the result of leaving your wife, but..." ... I don't see how you are totally missing what I'm saying time and time again. ... (???) ... Or maybe you just want to argue?

Thank you both for your interest in my case and for your advice.

I have stated this also in other replies on this thread - I have no interest in moving on and finding another woman, if I ever leave this marriage. My concerns are mainly for my daughter. I will not say that I don't care about my own happiness, just that it is not my priority. And I don't think it would be good for my little girl growing up seeing her dad depressed and miserable.

I mention chronic loneliness because I am already on the edge of it. I do not fit in at all with the culture where I live with my wife and daughter, and there are no expats here. Flights home take over a day from here, and usually require three flights to get me home, which could be just a 3-hour flight if an airline were to go directly. My wife's family speaks a dialect which I do not understand, and I am also a shy person, so the only people in my life really are my wife and child. And when my wife doesn't understand me, or pushes me away by joining a cult, I feel very depressend and alone, even if I am in company.

My little girl is 4 years old, I am hopeful that with another few years she will become the cure to my loneliness, but as I write this I realise how unfair and selfish it is to put that sort of pressure on her. But for now, I will just play the waiting game, I will just try to stay in this for as long as possible, and see how things pan out.

Thanks again.

@JustAskMe I suppose as lonely as he feels even your obtuse post to him is better than nothing....READ HIS THANKFUL REPLY and precise declaration right below me here.....the additional details include a language disconnect with the little girl's mom...... please reconsider your understanding of his pleas here..... REAL CARING FEMINIST Atheist men like him and me NEED love without it without bonding over a football game or co-parenting with other Atheists and their daughters is something I went through TWICE with insensitive females along the way praising solitude we both abhor

@JustAskMe, @Gerard103 I envy your abiding love for your sweet playful 4 year old child.....40 years ago I won sole custody for my 1st daughter...... perhaps a good lawyer exists near you to protect your family from cult interference? If your spouse does not want the lawyer/s help that is proof of her neglect PROOFfor your sole custody case IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE CHILD.....Italy is a catholic country less favorable to religious extremists as is USA

Thank you Paul. I am not interested in meeting other women if I leave. And I know exactly what you mean about being lonely without being alone, I feel this every day. My wife's family speak a dialect that I do not understand, and when I feel that my wife doesn't understand me, that is me all alone here, even though I am surrounded by people often.

There are certainly other factors that contribute to the unhappiness in the marriage, but until now we could discuss everything. But we can only discuss JW if I fake interest in actually understanding their point of view.

No, my concern is not for myself now, but for my daughter. Were there children involved in your case?

@Gerard103 We have a daughter, who was 13 at the time. It helped immensely that I made clear my main interest was in making sure she still had a good home, I had no interest in selling the house and splitting the cash, etc., in fact I still basically make the mortgage payments plus a little on the side. It's a very informal child support agreement.

She visits every weekend and I drive her to school every other week, my work schedule makes evenings hard to do. But she understands now, even though I'm not sure she was completely on board at the time. But I had waited 3 years already trying to save the marriage on account of her youth, so I felt I had to do something to save my own sanity and morale.

"Jehovah's Witnesses". They're some of the people who go door-to-door, and I answer in my underwear or naked.

JW is common shorthand for Jehovahs Witness

@BitFlipper I personally refer to them as being Jehovah's Witlesses.

@BitFlipper, @Eazyduzzit Or simply " Jeho's" in the Aussie vernacular....LOL.

@Donotbelieve

I asked a sincere question: What does "JW" stand for?

Insulting members is against Community Guidelines. I was not "condescending" or "snarky," as you called me.

@Donotbelieve

There is nothing impolite about asking for clarification. "What does "'JW' stand for?" is a polite question.

"I speak English, not Acronym" is a fact. I tried looking up "JW" and got "just wondering."

People need to spell out words. Asking them to clarify is appropriate.

@Donotbelieve

Thank you. Apology accepted.

@Donotbelieve

You said I wrote "backpedaling replies." I'm tired of you taking shots at me. You are blocked.

@LiterateHiker I did not know what JW was either, until I found a response post to clarify. There are many other times I google acronyms here, and I agree it is a disservice, if not downright rude, to use acronyms rather that words.
This is, in fact, a place of written communication between people of many ages, lifestyles, and backgrounds, and it only stands to reason that as we are writing the English language we should do so correctly, in order to be understood.

Donotbelieve: Understand?

@tinkercreek

Thank you. Some news articles use text-speak now.

"Even Adam Driver is emo as hell," an author wrote on Slate. Again, I had to look it up. According to Urban Dictionary, "emo" means "an emotional person."

Spell it out, people!

@Triphid We are programmed to proselytize. resistance is futile.

Apologies, you are quite right. I am often at a loss to understand acronyms myself and have to google them, I guess I am just used to abbreviating Jehovah's Witness to JW and didn't think about it. I also hate typing the word 'Jehovah', it is just anathema to me by now.

Thanks richiegtt, to be honest I am mostly thinking about my daughter at this point, although I am sad to lose the holidays which have always been a big part of my life, but for non-religious reasons.

I just don't want my daughter to be made to suffer for some of the ridiculous things these people make her mother believe. And I don't want my wife influencing my little girl before her mind is ready to process this sort of contemplation for herself.

Thank you Jolanta, sorry to hear that but I am glad you have moved on and made a happy life for yourself.

I am sorry you had to go through that. My situation is a little different - I think that if we were both from the same country and living in that country, I would leave my wife and try to stay close to my daughter, but my choice would be to either stay in a place where I have no family or social outlet and do not fit in with the local culture, or go back to my country and abandon my daughter to a cult, and a controlling (and now bitter) mother. I just couldn't do that to her.

Thank you

@Gerard103 you are most welcome. Victor Frankyl stated “ The one thing no one can take from you is your perception of how you feel about your experience “. Life is about about change whether we want to or not , the river of life’s current will pull us along whether we swim along with it or fight it. Sometimes we can jump on the bank and evaluate that current and catch our breath and then jump back in . Fear is the great paralyzer , harmony is about seeing what is around you and accepting what it’s doing and doing what you need to do . Having power in our lives allows us to act , not to force or maintain things by force . Listen to your inner self and trust what it is telling you, you already have the answer to your hat the course is .

I am so sorry that happened to you.

@Wildgreens Thank you

So sorry that happened to you Dee, and thank you for sharing. It encourages me even more to not abandon my little girl to this cult.

@Gerard103 I know I was rambling but this is the first time I said these things out loud. I’m sure everyone in that religion isn’t dangerous. But their beliefs are. Living with the constant fear of god killing everyone who doesn’t follow their rules isn’t healthy. My older sister is slipping into mental illness as she clings to their promises. My younger sister is addicted to drugs - trying to escape reality. Those two are ‘true believers’. Both my brothers turned to a life of crime spending the bulk of their lives in prison (and both are dead) they ran from that religion . However, I’m the black sheep because I choose to get my PhD. But it took me years to break away from their influence. I lost many opportunities. Be concerned and always be there for her- she needs a strong father.

Thank you, your post has given me some hope of saving the marriage!

@Gerard103
My favorite line is .... "Life is what we make it to be." In these modern, civilized times, we have a lot more control over most decisions in our lives. A lot can look better just with the right expectations, and right attitude. If your perspective and world view changes to better, you will notice the grass is looking greener. There are things in life beyond our control like death, natural calamity, accident caused by others etc. Most the most is under our control. I tried it with self and I noticed a whole lot of difference. I was younger, but wan't happy, I had more money, but wasn't happy, I had a better career, but I wasn't happy. I just changed the view of how and what to take from the life ahead.

That's some heavy shit, a heavy load you are carrying.

Keep trying friend.....get copies of WATCHTOWER and AWAKE .....both ENGLISH AND ITALIAN copies to have your spouse read in both languages ALOUD so you both hear it in the same dialect.....I have read many the last 40 years and there is room on those pages to reason and choose nice outcomes .....it is true she is drowning in cultist pressures and official JW publications can divide her from the cultists for your reasonable loving purposes....DO NOT argue religion with a 4 year old girl....be 100% scientific with her....watch Disney science and nature films with her....find a good SECULAR school for her the day she turns 5

Then of course....they blamed the drinking

@twill They seemed to be in all other respects a loving family. I never heard any fights or arguments (unlike mine). I think that he just left her to it whilst he spent his leisure hours with guys who were not talking about god all the time.

@273kelvin My Dad bailed on us for the bars. Not about religion, just a bad marriage. He was seeking camaraderie / friendship/ fun....anything besides stress.

That would be me, if there were pubs where I live

@twill This seeking sounds very familiar to me, have heard from friends and now wonder how common it in relationships even today. It is just not a thing of the previous generations.

Thank you, what is DBT please?

@Gerard103 Dialectical Behavioral Therapy by Marsha Linehan

@Gerard103 Also, I would suggest that rather than focusing on the religion and trying to combat your wife's new beliefs, you might consider the underlying causes leading to your wife wanting to embrace this religion. When people make irrational choices, it's usually because they are trying to fill a deep human need. Your wife may be lonely, may feel like the things she does aren't significant enough, may feel like life is slipping by without her accomplishing her dreams, or something along those lines that she feels unable to change; and so she turns to superstitious beliefs to at least give her some sense of having those needs filled.

Anyway, I didn't want to go into a huge amount of detail because I could write a book on this, but the DBT book has a lot of really good information and exercises you can do to help you work through tough relationship problems and make solid choices.

@Gerard103 also MONTESSORI or REGGIO early childhood education will assist her and you to stay freethinking Atheists curious and happy pursuing knowledge growing together.....your challenges ahead are good with other parents with children your girls age ....drawing writing playing reading sculpting adding subtracting ....very little reality of learning is written in the bibles....get her mom interested in learning with her daughter in real schools NOT CULT MEETINGS with tea

Yeah I know JW's that drink and like to include alcohol in their festivities

Thank you. This year was the first year that my wife told me that she could not be a part of Christmas, but she wanted me to do it with my daughter. Later she told me that she did this last year as well but just didn't tell me, i.e. she let me go out and buy decorations and put up the tree etc, but she did not participate. I was happy doing it all and never even realised that she was not participating on religious grounds. This year, she decided to tell me, so I never even bothered putting up a tree. For me this time of year is all about family, and she is taking that away from me because of her "other" family.

Now, she tells me that as soon as she becomes fully indoctrinated into the cult, we as a family will not celebrate Christmas again. I would like to tell her that she can stay out of it if she wants, but I will celebrate with my daughter, but to be honest the heart has gone out of it for me. I would not enjoy celebrating the holidays while my wife stays on the sidelines and pretends none of it is happening, even if that is her choice.

I am heartbroken by this for myself, as I have always loved holidays especially ones that bring families closer, but I have come to terms with my heartbreak and I am bracing myself for even more down the line. My main concern now though is for my little girl, as I do not want her to grow up deprived of birthdays and other celebrations that kids normally enjoy. It will be very difficult for me to pick up the reins here, in this foreign culture, as I am a very shy person and do not fit in well here, but I will have to organise her birthday parties by myself in future, and I don't know how I will explain to her why her mother is not taking part.

I feel like she is breaking our famly up and I resent her so much for this, yet I still love her. I blame the cult, and only wish I could find a way of snapping her out of her brainwashed state.

@Gerard103 I feel for you. Again I'm afraid you are letting her make the decisions now and if that happens there will be no stopping it in the future. I understand that you don't feel that your heart is in it, bucking her on holidays. All I can say, with what I know now, it wouldn't be for you but for your daughter. If your wife gets the reigns on all things religious you might as well say goodbye to your daughter. As I said above I lost my son to the religion. It's been over twenty years since we've really spoken and I met him at the post office one day and didn't even recognize him. He lives a mile and a half from me. Like you, I didn't fight and because of it I don't even know my grand-kids. Again, if your wife gets control of your daughter's religious education your daughter will be lost to you. I wish I would have tried harder. Sorry, but I'm a bit emotional here.