Hey y'all, we seem to be militants.
I thought the only militant apart from the military is the Church Militant.
Most all Religions teach to 'spread the good word'.. That's nothing new. Forcing via threat of death is a whole other thing, folks.. Yeah, Atheists also practice the art of Epistemology from time to time. The only Religious group I hear of that still kills people for being Heretical are the Shia Muslims.
Oh no. The christians still do it, too.
You just don't hear about it as often.
Those stories tend to get "buried" in the US.
@Trajan61 Okay.
The guy who walked into a church in Texas and gunned down 26 people in 2017.
Another guy who walked into another Texas church in December and killed 2, before he was killed by security.
Those were christians killing christians.
Then there was the the christian who killed 16 in a Sikh temple, thinking they were muslims.
The prisons are full of christians who have killed others because they weren't christians.
Some guy beheaded his girlfriend because he didn't think she was "christian enough".
@KKGator Oh for Pete sake, KK.. Those Christians didn't do what they did because their religion dictated they do it. That guy beheaded her for refusing to marry him, and that was after he stabbed himself in the stomach.. He was a psycho. Why can't you ever be intellectually honest about this stuff.. You're comparing apples and oranges and you know it..
@Captain_Feelgood Religious faith is a mental illness.
ALL those people are mentally ill.
It's not "apples and oranges". Not even a little bit.
@KKGator Uuuhh... Yeah, it is apples and oranges.. You're comparing people that kill and torture people because THEIR religion (Islam) dictates that they do it, with psychos that kill and torture people,, that just happen to be Christian.. Are you actually saying you don't see the difference?
@Trajan61
The genocide perpetrated by the Christian Serbs against Bosnian Muslims in the 1990s.
How quicky they forget!
@Captain_Feelgood White supremacists are christians, and they kill more people in this country than any muslim ever has. They do it in the name of their "god".
@KKGator, @Flyingsaucesir History lesson... The war in Bosnia was a civil war. When the Nazis dismembered Yugoslavia in 1941, they created a fascist puppet state of Croatia, which incorporated most of Bosnia. This state slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Serbs and Jews. From 1941-1945 more than a million Yugoslavs died, more than half at the hands of each other. In Bosnia, three nationalities lived before the conflict in inextricably mixed communities: the Muslims with 44 per cent of the population, the Serbs with 32 per cent and the Croats with 17 per cent. The communities lived in relative harmony. After the European Community demanded a referendum on independence in Bosnia, the vote split on ethnic lines. Muslims and Croats supported independence but the Serbs boycotted the vote and, again with the army's support, began a fight for territory. Religion had nothing to do with starting the war, and played no part in why they fought each other. One side being mostly Christian while the other mostly (not all) Muslim was coincidental.
@KKGator I'd love you to come up with anything that proves they (white supremacists) kill in the name of god, and not because they feel superior due to their skin color. Being Christian is just a (convenient for you in this discussion) coincidence. Again, apples and oranges. Feel free to read up a little. [en.wikipedia.org]
@Captain_Feelgood
Tell that to the thousands of Muslim men and boys who were herded into warehouses and shot by Christians, or lined up in the woods and shot by Christians. Just a coincidence? Ha! Not a chance.
@Trajan61, @Flyingsaucesir OK, but where did this happen? Serbia? Just asking.. I dunno..
@Grecio
The former Yugoslavia.
@Grecio writes,
"There is nothing good in Islam..."
That statement throws the baby out with the bathwater. There is both good and bad in all religions. That's what makes it so difficult to get rid of them. If they were all bad, like the polio virus, we would long ago developed a vaccine and eradicated religion from the face of the Earth. But people are attracted to the good bits and may not realize they are walking into intellectual and moral quicksand. Christianity is certainly no better than Islam. Both have at times been the rationale for unspeakable cruelty, violence, oppression, and genocide. A pox on all their houses!
@Flyingsaucesir Well said I must agree. However, I think we need the separation of church and state throughout the entire world. I am not against Christians and Muslims that are peaceful and believe in SOCAS. However, I think the philosophy of the entire world should be to help the poor peaceful Muslims stay in their country while the world helps them.
I think this has become the philosophy of several European nations like Austria where Muslim immigration has ruined their country.
@Grecio
I agree the vast majority should stay where they are. But the reality is that large parts of the world, starting with the Middle East and sub-Saharan Africa, are becoming uninhabitable due to global warming and war. (Americans are responsible for a a lot of that. Throughout the 20th century we produced 25% of the greenhouse gases, with only 5% of the world population!) Those people will migrate. I think we can absorb a few. Not a flood, but a few.
@Flyingsaucesir The USA needs to reduce carbon emissions but if only the USA does that, we won't gain much.
@Grecio
If we help lead the way on this, the transition will happen pretty quickly. It will be self-reinforcing, because green energy technologies are fundamentally cheaper, more efficient, and easier on the environment. Hell, just stop subsidizing the fossil fuel industry and it will collapse.
Judging by the more militant remarks on this forum, maybe the claim is legitimate. It is common to hear a call to end religion, but I’ve never heard of a call to end atheism.
If you haven't heard that, then you haven't been listening.
Atheists have been under attack by believers since the beginning of
religion. It's only getting worse as the believers seek to force their will
on everyone else, claiming how badly they're being "suppressed".
They aren't being suppressed, they're being told they can no longer run
roughshod over everyone who doesn't share their beliefs.
When they're told they can't discriminate, they scream "discrimination".
I'm "militant" because I'm tired of the constant intrusion and influence on my life by religion and it's adherents.
@KKGator Thank you for stating this so Succinctly! I to am sick of the religious bigots complaining of being persecuted for their beliefs. They are the ones trying to shove their myths into every segment of society. I’m also sick of comments like the one above who push the “they may have a legitimate point.” The religious believers in this Country do nothing but push their beliefs on everyone, then scream persecution when non believers push back on them!
There are 7 states which have laws on the books forbidding atheists from running for various offices. There are no states with laws forbidding anybody from running due to sex, race or because of which religion they adhere too - you just have to have one.
@KKGator I know that in some Muslim countries it is not safe to be an atheist. Also, historically some Christian Churches have been suppressive.
For me personally, I have never felt coerced or influenced by any religion. I simply ignore what they do, and their activities have no effect on me. I once lived across the street from a Catholic Church and school. I was continually shopping at their rummage room, and they invited me to their church. I explained politely why I can not be a Catholic, and they responded with acceptance and respect.
Great people, those Catholics.
@Observer-Effect There are various old laws that are not enforced and are unconstitutional. Blasphemy is illegal in Massachusetts, for example.
@WilliamFleming Your experience has not been my own. Nor has your experience been the same as many others.
I was raised catholic. I'm here to tell you, they're not so great.
A lot of them have covered for pedophile priests, too.
I've also personally witnessed their complete lack of acceptance for others who didn't share their beliefs.
I've seen catholic nuns literally beat children for asking logical questions.
@WilliamFleming Don't think for one second that those "old laws" wouldn't be used if it suited someone's agenda.
While on their face, they are clearly un-Constitutional, with the current state of the courts, don't count on the Constitution being upheld.
Hell we're just playing for a tie, while they are constantly lying, misdirecting, shoving untruths onto the culture and society. Constantly moving the goalposts run up the score.
William Fleming please wake up, please wake up
You've never read a Bible. One basic tenet of Christianity is that all must either convert, or perish when Jesus comes back (whenever that is). Logically that means no more atheists.
We believe in the separation of church and state? So long as they act in accordance with each other, effectively becoming extensions of each other? That kind of separation?
What an asshat.
Barr is a great Attourney General, much better than that idiot Holder or for that matter Loretta Lynch.
@seenoevil9620 I guess you consider Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch to have been great Attourney generals?
@maturin1919 Holder and Lynch were boot lickers for Obama. I’ll take a Trump boot licker over an Obama boot licker anytime.
@maturin1919 Your very delusional yourself. Only a raving lunatic would support the looney democraps!
Sorry, I have to cry "Bullshit". That's the ignorant crap we have running this country. A schoolteacher is not allowed to give their opinion of religion in the classroom but the attorney general can spout crap like that??? And whatever happened to that "minimum government"?? The AG needs to wake-up and smell the coffee.
@TheMiddleWay Do you tell your students that God is not real?
Well, yes and no. Depends on the circumstance.
"Our Establishment Clause jurisprudence provides that, in addition to having a secular purpose and not having the primary effect of advancing or hindering religion, state policies or actions must not foster excessive government entanglement with religion. See Lemon v. Kurtzman, 403 U.S. 602, 612–13, 91 S.Ct. 2105, 29 L.Ed.2d 745 (1971). Although the Lemon test has been criticized, it has not been overruled. However, the Court appears to have modified the test somewhat in Agostini v. Felton, 521 U.S. 203, 234, 117 S.Ct. 1997, 138 L.Ed.2d 391 (1997), which instructs us to focus on the question of whether the challenged action can reasonably be viewed as a governmental endorsement of religion. Under this jurisprudence, courts have not only struck down school-sponsored religious activities and official endorsement of religion, see, e.g., Lee v. Weisman, 505 U.S. 577, 112 S.Ct. 2649, 120 L.Ed.2d 467 (1992) (prayer at graduation ceremony); Wallace v. Jaffree, 472 U.S. 38, 105 S.Ct. 2479, 86 L.Ed.2d 29 (1985) (moment of silence), but they have also held that public school officials have the authority to prevent teachers from giving students and others the impression that the school prefers a particular religion, or religion in general, see, e.g., Helland v. South Bend Community School Corp., 93 F.3d 327 (7th Cir.1996); Peloza v. Capistrano Unified School District, 37 F.3d 517 (9th Cir.1994). Thus, schools may direct teachers to “refrain from expression of religious viewpoints in the classroom and like settings,” Bishop v. Aronov, 926 F.2d 1066, 1077 (11th Cir.1991); indeed, schools have a constitutional duty to make “certain ... that subsidized teachers do not inculcate religion,” Lemon, 403 U.S. at 619, 91 S.Ct. 2105."
Marchi v. Bd. of Coop. Educ. Servs. of Albany, 173 F.3d 469, 475 (2d Cir. 1999)
@TheMiddleWay
A science teacher can teach science as a set of facts supported by voluminous evidence. And he/she can point out that where religion contradicts science, there is a glaring lack of evidence to support the religious position. The teacher can do this, but there will be push back from religious students, parents, and administrators. They will do their best to get that teacher out of the classroom. And they will play dirty.I know whereof I speak; I have first-hand experience of this.
@TheMiddleWay
You taught physics...did you teach Darwinian evolution?
@TheMiddleWay
Did the biology teacher in your school actually teach evolution as hard fact, or did he/she soft pedal the issue? I have seen (known) biology teachers who actually believed in Creationism, and taught that Darwinism is "just a theory." I have also seen biology teachers gloss over evolution, hurry through it in fear of student/parent reaction. As for dealing with bad behaviors, I agree that there are methods available. And these often include getting parents and administrators involved. But if you do not have their support, those methods are of little value.
@TheMiddleWay
There is certainly some modification going on around the edges of evolutionary theory and plate tectonics. But it is safe to say that the facts of the age of the Earth, give or take a few million years, and the origin of species, give or take a few twigs on the phylogenetic tree, are well-established facts and are not going to change. The scientific community has reached consensus that these are indeed facts.
@TheMiddleWay
Oh do not worry my friend, I take your point. I taught high school science for 20 years. I know that as scientists we must always leave the door to change unlocked and open at least a crack. But sometimes there comes a point where the evidence is so overwhelming that we can safely say that a question is settled. The shift from geocentrism to heliocentrism was somewhat halting at first, but now no one (no serious person) argues that we may someday find that the universe revolves around the Earth. And so it is with evolutionary theory and plate tectonics. The evolution of hundreds of macro species has been measured in real time. Likewise the movements of tectonic plates. On these issues we have moved from the realm of guarded confidence into plain certainty. Failure to accept these facts in the interest of keeping up the appearance of scientific integrity is akin to stubbornly clinging to religious dogma. It's time to move on.
@TheMiddleWay You have done well, I think. Most students and parents don't care whether evolution is true or not. They just want to drop their kid off at school for most of the day.
The city of Rome, Ga. (USA)(I think in the 90s) had a sticker placed in each Biology textbook that stated: "Evolution is only a theory". The stickers were later removed by court order.
When I was teaching Biology, I had a student come to my desk and ask me if I was an atheist. I replied that I do not believe there is a God that watches everything we do every day and rewards or punishes us for everything we do.