I have a friend who's parents are atheists (I met them at a Unitarian church) but he converted to Islam, I think in part because he's subconsciously trying to piss off his father, who's an opinionated loudmouth (and they sort of have a similar temperament). That's beside the point I suppose. And he's very bright, he posted something about how his "research in grad school was on computational simulations of virus proteins" but he's starting to doubt that viruses exist because viruses are too small to be detected by a microscope. If that sounds crazy, all I can say is, I personally didn't go to grad school and I have no clue how to research such a thing, so I certainly can't challenge him (but I do believe viruses exist).
Anyway that's not the subject of this post. He challenged his Facebook friends to prove COVID-19 exists, and when I posted this article for him, he didn't respond to me, but told another commenter he didn't believe it (the last comment): [ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
So I'm thinking, this is a misuse of philosophy. What do you all think?
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22 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.How old is he? Schizophrenia starts manifesting in the early 20's, and his thinking is quite bizarre. Perhaps he should be evaluated by doctors?
AnneWimsey
Level 9
May 22, 2020
6
@altschmerz I would ask his parents to check on this!
My first thought too, was mental illness.
Sometimes, you can't stay friends with people.
Sometimes, they change and can no longer be reasoned with.
Not everyone who comes into our life is meant to stay in it.
This person sounds like a really good example of that fact.
KKGator
Level 9
May 22, 2020
6
@altschmerz That is absolutely your call to make.
I wasn't trying to tell you what to do.
You are the ONLY one who knows what is right for you.
Have I told u lately how much I love u KK?
You said he is very bright. Sure about that ?
Moravian
Level 8
May 22, 2020
4
@altschmerz Well there are many types of itelligence and for someone to adopt the Islamic religion shows that his reasoning faculties are a bit doubtful'
To deny the existence of Covid19 smacks more of attention seeking than anything else.
Let just remember what Faith is. It's the suspension of rational thought. Most people are brainwashed in to believing in God when they are children. But when someone converts to Islam after being in a family of non-believers, then how can anyone be expected to take anything they say seriously.
My first thought is mental illness. How old is this person? He is in a science field and rejecting science. There are ways to view the virus, such as electron microscopy. I didn't take time to read the facebook stuff.
If he is rebelling against his father, chances are that eventually he will come back around to atheist, providing there is no mental illness involved.
itsmedammit
Level 8
May 22, 2020
2
@altschmerz I just read a little bit and see he questions the media and states people believe something just because the media states it. Well it is not the media that determined there was a pandemic. The media is just the messenger. Maybe he doesn't believe in covid but he must certainly realize that something is making people sick. It doesn't sound like a healthy conversation and I hope you don't spend too much time challenging him. Usually when they start blaming the media, it is either a tactic (Trump) or disordered thinking. I have a relative that is prone to believe all sorts of things. Sadly I have communications from that person blocked for now.
I think there are still enough people who are able to think, reason and are interesting that wasting even a minute's attention on this person is an act of ingratitude for both the human ability to reason and life itself.
Silver1wun
Level 7
May 22, 2020
2
Personally, I wouldn't even bother with folks like that, a waste of your valuable time. There is strong evidence Covid-19 is very real, but if and when someone is locked into denial mode then nothing you could say or show them would make any difference.
SpikeTalon
Level 9
May 22, 2020
2
I understood from my time studying biology that viruses were visible by electron microscopes. Regardless, we can't see atoms either, but we have plenty of ways of detecting facts to verify their existence and their configuration. Viruses are no different.
[ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
I thought the reason you suspect your friend converted to Islam of interest. Michael Shermer in his book "How We Believe" examined a number of factors influencing the beliefs of individuals. One factor he wrote about ws the beliefs of parents; a person very often maintains the beliefs taught to them by their parents with an exception. If the parents have a difficult or hostile relationship with one another or with the child. Under these conditions, the offspring will change their belief system from their parents. Shermer noticed that offspring of believing parents would become nonbelievers at higher percentages when their relationships with parents were seen as unsatisfactory. I see no reason why the opposite wouldn't also be the case.
RussRAB
Level 8
May 22, 2020
2
@altschmerz - I just did a Google search asking if viruses could be seen by an electron microscope. I thought the ncbi article to be a reliable source, but several others were available.
As for whether anything would change your friends mind, I don't see that as unusual. Actually, I think it might take time for the information to sink in. I know it probably would with me. I had a very stubborn father as well and one learns to guard against being mistaken under such a circumstance.
I came looking for this answer before putting it up.
There's lots of things we can't see but know they are there. Electron microscopes can see viruses.
JackPedigo
Level 9
May 22, 2020
0
Hardly anyone on Facebook can prove COVID exists with the level of proof he is probably going to require.
My best friend works at a hospital and says he sees it every day. This anecdotal evidence is good enough for me, but I’m not trying to get it passed peer review or anything.
indirect76
Level 7
May 22, 2020
0
I haven't had time to read your entire post yet but one thing struck me...
He doesn't think viruses are real because they can't be seen in a microscope.
Before the invention of the microscope he'd probably say the same things about germs.
And wwhat about atoms?
HumanistJohn
Level 8
May 22, 2020
1
I wonder how long his faith in the Quran would last if he applied that type of thinking to it?
brentan
Level 8
May 22, 2020
1
Well, the Quaran can be seen in a microscope so it checks out.
He is an idiot that knows nothing about ELECTRON MICROSCOPES that photograph the virus covered in proteins surrounding single cells like the corona around the sun
Larry68Feminist
Level 7
May 22, 2020
1
I see nothing wrong with asking for proof. Seems like a smart guy.
SCal
Level 7
May 23, 2020
0
SCal:
@altschmerz Well, some of the greatest scientific breakthroughs were made by people who challenged firmly entrenched standards of belief during their time.
Guys like Simmelweis, Pasteur, Gerson, Tesla, Copernicus, were all smart enough to know that everyone was wrong.
I'm not saying he's that guy, but how do I know? You've already stated that you are ignorant on the subject matter. So how do you know?
I did not know some of the facts he stated. Based on what we can see and conclude; his statements seem plausible, but maybe not probable. But I certainly don't have enough knowledge to insult him.
SCal:
@altschmerz Probably wise.
This is crazy. They have even mapped the DNA of the corona Virus. IT'S REAL. Come on guys
He can (mis)use philosophy the way he wants! It's nobody's knowledge! You shouldn't care! You shouldn't neither care whether he will go back to his senses or not! If you consider hem a 'friend' and you are truly worried, you've advised and told! Leave it there. If it's a fase, it will most likely pass(if he's 'bright' as you mentioned), if it doesn't he's free to fuck up his own life trying to get back at his parents! Unless you know for sure that he's planning on doing something violent! You know then who to call! (Not Ghostbusters)! If you and others try to haunt him, with good intentions, to deconvert, his subconscious mind would probably make him believe that his 'faith' "is true, otherwise you wouldn't bother!" Tell him to read more into that wrongly collected full of mistakes stuff called Islam and see how many times Killing is encouraged in his 'holy book', and no these are no interpretations! Kill the nonbelievers means Kill! And how at lease on 86 different occasions in his 'holy book' Muslim men are instructed on the how-to trade, obtain and use (underage) females! He doesn't mind his mum to be sold if a group of muslims were able to have the upper hand in his hometown? I'll go for a Vodka with Ice!
PabloNeruda
Level 6
May 22, 2020
0
Real Atheist parents would teach a child basic science obvious for the last 50 years
Larry68Feminist
Level 7
May 22, 2020
0
Notice he does not dare himself to prove his allah exists anywhere in any shape ....he is a flat earther measuring flat elevation areas as if the planet is orbited by the sun
Larry68Feminist
Level 7
May 22, 2020
0
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