I visited a friend the other day with a few of HIS friends, who I barely even know. We were talking about a wide variety of things/topics. Somehow the conversation lead into one of his friends ragging on transgender people. He said "It's gross, weird, I don't understand it, if you're born a boy....you're a BOY!" I could barely even chime in on the conversation. I'm not a fan of yelling and having to talk over people. He wasn't even listening to anyone, anyways. I dislike people who talk CONSTANTLY, interupt, and hog conversations. Overall, I am a calm mellow person who doesn't do well with people such as him. He didn't even listen to anyone anyways and likes to hear himself talk.
Yes.... I have a hard time understanding it too, but don't you think transgender people ALSO have a hard time and go through confusion? (most, not all). Imagine what THEY go through. They are also discriminated against, by many people, even to this day.
It's weird and gross? Weird is too broad of a term. I even consider myself "weird." It's weird to you because you don't understand it? Why not try to educate yourself? I am still educating myself on this, as some parts I still don't fully understand. Everyone is "entitled" to their own beliefs and opinions (I suppose) even though some of those opinions are bias, illogical, and invaild.
Moving to the racist part....in my town, there were teenage boys who hijacked a car and the police were after them. When we all were talking about that, he says "I bet you that wasn't a bunch of white kids who did that!"
I told my friend that I never want to hangout with this person again. He said "I can only deal with him in small doses." I told my friend "He seems very transphobic and racist." Turns out, my friend said I was right. What a shocker!
If someone was a racist transphobic person (who is set in their ways) and you're NOT a transphobic racist person, would you even want to hangout or associate with them at all?
I'd invite the party to my house. Except for him...
I generally try to stay away from negative people...they are killers of quality of life...when younger, I would sometimes try to invest in people like these, not so much anymore, as I see my time is more valuable to me, I grow more selfish.
Sometimes it is not that simple. They could be coworkers, family, friends of family, family of friends, family of coworker/boss ... there are lots of complications where you might feel required to be "polite". But yea, they wouldn't be on my invite list or regular buddies.
I would cut such a person out of my life.
My thoughts.
Ditto.
I can understand not wanting to be around someone like this. Perhaps it’s a lost cause. Perhaps befriending a person like this can help you understand how someone gets to be like that. Perhaps an even closer friend could change their mind.
Imagine if we were all a bit more like Daryl Davis. He is a black man that befriended members of the KKK and eventually dissuaded them of their bigotry.
The problem with "everyone is entitled to their opinions"...is that everyone has opinions based on what someone else has told them...lack of education and believing what other people have said...and they lack the skills to find out for certain...so...they are not wrong....but they are not right either..
I agree. Further, everyone is ignorant in regards to something. Based on what I know concerning the psychology of learning, brain topography and chemistry, and human nature, humans learn by creating information clusters. These clusters can be left almost empty, unformed or skeletal, or added to until they are incredibly intricate and complex. Ignorance would equate to having a bare skeletal frame and may be why stereotyping is such a robust, relied upon human tendency. There is a fair amount of psychological information that supports the idea that racism and bigotry are, in fact, based on ignorance. Further,
ignorance is a malleable state and may be remediated with education and increased familiarity. This implies that a simple conversation can alter someone's perspective and outlook which sounds like a worthy endeavor to me.
I think I have at least skimmed every comment in order to give my take on what became a very broad subject. If I skimmed too thin and misunderstand your point of skipped you all together; please forgive me.
Sometimes it seems almost impossible to avoid people who are intent on hurting and hating as many people as possible. As someone already commented here, as I grow older, I become less inclined to put much time into such people.
Yesterday I was talking to a friend who has endurred more at he hands of haters and thoughtless people than anyone else I know. As part of our conversation I mentioned a well known far right white supremacist - labeling him "an asshole." My friend became upset with me, saying that when you lable a person you become the same as that person, you take on some of his hate. As I said my friend has endurred more biggotry in a day than I can imagine in a life time. He knows where of he speaks.
Labeling people, as I did and too often do, makes them one dimensional. Reducing people (or even their ideas) to a single dimension is dehumanizing. I should have known better.
In an effort to understand our political situation I have been reading about the collapse of Yugoslavia. There are frightening similarities. Dehumanization, deserved or not, quickly lead to the break down of society, once loving relationships turned hateful. Good neighbors turned on neighbors, committing mutual attrocities to a degree I don't want to imagine. There is certainly more to the story but I think it is not coincidence that genocides in Rwanda, Germany and to many other places began the same way.
So, I have some idea of what not to do. What to do is much harder. We need to learn to listen for the hurt that may fuel the hate, we need to model compassion, open mindedness, and acceptance and understanding of difference. The hardest part for me is remembering that the hardest part for me is remembering that hearing and understanding ideas I hate does not make them mine.
Bravo! Well said...
I have been spit on, kicked, and beaten by folks over the years - ultimately vivisected as a traitor to my "race and gender"... For trying to promote this idea and understanding. I am in a place where I can sound aught but angry since my last round of cancer. I feel betrayed and like EVERYTHING is a lie...except for the ideas presented in this post.
The one true thing I have learned - dehumanization is the irrefutable road to evil...not evil as defined by some church but the real stuff...the kind that motivated one group of humans to infect another with a deadly disease cuz they were cold and in need... and in the way of profits, the kind that caused the African color based slave trade, and allowed Auschwitz to exist.
And we teach it to medical students in this country as an essential tool under the guise of "detachment".
I wish I had the capacity to sound as understanding and open as you do in this post... maybe I will again someday.
You make a clear and valid point. I try and follow your ideas on learning why people hate and most times I can ‘be there’ and hear and I try and insert something helpful, but it is very difficult when it is coming our way in abundance and I myself, have limited emotional energy. But your ideas are humane and how I want to operate.
I do not hangout with many people at all, especially the ones who believe the garbage going around today. As I aged I became more understanding and tolerant in many ways, but I do talk too much. What you need to understand about your man in question is that he is a god believer at heart. In his mind a perfect god cannot create anyone transgender, and he is also racist because his god is racist. Most bible lovers cannot see that this is what the OT is all about.
Hell ta da no! My own brother is a homophobic, racist, misogynistic, douche! I don't associate with him (or the rest of my family - for a variety of reasons). It's important to hang with people who are supportive and understanding. And you get to decide who you associate with; you don't have to hang out with people just because they have your blood in their veins!
I would probably say to him that you are a racist, transphobic asshole and I don't want to be around you and get up and leave. I lack the ability to be tactful as I have been told by some people who have advised me to learn to hold my tongue. I am set in my ways. Too late for that.
Same lol
What jumps out at me is this - pertaining to his hang up about another person's need to switch genders. What business is it of his? So he doesn't understand it. He doesn't have to. He can never understand it. Why does anyone have the need to impose themselves on another. Just live and let live and acknowledge that everyone has a right to their own life and the freedom to seek their own identity.
Long ago an acquaintance at a makerspace said something similar and I sarcastically responded without thinking "yeah, and Eminem is not a rapper, because he's White."
Dude (big Eminem fan) basically went through the following tirade albeit longer and more expletives: "What!? it's not the same. You don't have to be Black to be a rapper. There are Chinese rappers, dumbass! It's not something determined by who you are born as. It's about what you do, who you are, it's how you present yourself, it's how you IDENTIFY yourself as...ah, I see what you did there, not falling for it, fine I agree with you: Eminem is not a rapper because he is White!
Me: "Ah, you're also racist..."
And this went on for an hour of me baiting him one way or another...never did change his mind. Some people just want be contrarian. Let 'em be.
I have never known any transsexuals personally . I worked in a cabinet shop back in the early 70s and the boss used to hire helpers from a halfway house . He hired this one fellow who was obviouslly trans and who was very troubled and had several attempts of suicide . He didn't do it because he was trans he did it because he wasn't accepted by his family or most of socitey . I don't know what happened to him but I'm sure he didn't have a happy life . I wish I had taken more time to get to know him better he only lasted several days .No one was mean to him but no one was kind or understanding ether .
I would verbally nail their ass to the wall. Let them know exactly why me, and any person of quality, will never want to share their company. I may slam a door or throw a plate for emphasis. Depends on where we are.
If he is at another gathering and start spouting rubbish, stand up and walk out, come back after a time if he is still speaking walk out again, if he confronts you just tell him he has nothing to say that is valid. Walk away don't respond to him do not validate his replies, after that just ignore him. If others do the same he loses his audience and will be silenced (he is going to say a lot of nasty stuff at you trust me) get others to walk with you.
I limit my time with all toxic people...I have a limited amount of energy and these personalities suck me down. I make every attempt to never be cruel to them, because they are limited and may have a mental illness. I state my knowledge without fanfare and let it do what ‘it’ can! I leave my words there and go about my life! If they do good, then I made a difference, if not, maybe someone else will hit the mark! I appreciate your post, it was introspective.
It's a waste of time trying to talk to someone that doesn't understand there are two parts to a conversion, talking and active listening. If they don't want to listen, and only rant, let them rant to someone else.
And you're right. How someone else chooses to live is not my business. I may not understand your choice, but I don't have to. Good people are good people, and I want to know them and learn about their life. I have no time for ass hats.
My grandmother came of age during ww2 and as far as she knew, the Japanese were monsters. She spent her life in bfmichigan where the closest she came to knowing any was when a Korean family moved to her area in the 80s. Then she spent a winter with my mother, who rented rooms to international students. She still writes those two girls. She was never evil, only ignorant. Of course her opinions only matter to me because I love my grandma.
I am really sorry that you were subjected to all of that garbage. That is just a lot of ugliness.