BINGO! Above all else, Biden is a politician. They respond to constituent pressure … he already has.. Can he please everyone? ….right.. Go with whoever can clear out trump - then move forward from there.

Who?

I want Bernie to win too but I don’t agree that Biden is essentially another version of Trump. However, I will bite my tongue and agree to disagree.

PLEASE reconsider that choice! It's one reason the pustule's in office now...people voted against Hilary by voting for him.

@paul1967 Bernie's not running....Biden is. And he's so much better than the pustule....

@LucyLoohoo nope..I held my nose and voted for Hillary..Not holding my nose anymore for the DNC..Biden is Worse than Clinton..More Baggage than Hillary..His voting record is Republican circa 1992..without mentioning Drump or RBG..give me 1 good reason to vote for Joe Shoot'em in the Legs Biden.

@Charlene He's compassionate..understands how the government works...learned from watching Obama...stands for the Constitution. Howwzat, Sis?

@Charlene It was a typo. It should have read, “I wanted Bernie to win.” I’m fine with Biden, I think he’s what the country needs right now. My main reason ( admittedly a dangerous reason) I wanted Bernie was the excitement level for him by young voters was high. He brought a new message to the liberal table. His plan wouldn’t have worked in my opinion. Conservatives would have spent the next 4 years blocking every Bernie bill put forth, but people love Bernie.

How are you figuring that??? You really see no distinction between them? I know Biden is nothing to get really excited about though I am hoping for a stellar VP pick... But Trump is a 10 year old child with mental issues. There IS a difference. Please don't hand it to Trump by voting for someone who could never win. No 3rd party candidate has a shot.

@Charlene Just wondering what issues you have with Biden that would make you feel our country can survive another 4 years under the leadership of President Trump?

Well, to be honest.. I’d not have expected more. sad

@RiverRick oh puhlease..Biden is an old fuck that doesn't give a Shit about working Americans..let alone Black Americans...oh but he has all the words..mostly Obama!.. his platform is as dismal as Drumps..except Bidens more "Folksy"..and a "regular Joe"..in fact he's a another White Old Republican Man with Nothing to offer..Nothing..M4A? Nope! Defund/Demilitarize Cops? Nope! Green New Deal,? Nope..You had better learn his Record on Civil Right, Social Security, Racism, Abortion, LGBT rights ad nauseum..you vote for Joe "Support the Hyde Amendment " Biden stop calling yourself a Liberal Democrat cause you're Neither..

@LucyLoohoo You’re wasting your time Lucy. An ignored attention seeker, such statements are how this poster feels relevant. The more we’d attempt to persuade … the more validated they feel.. Not worth it.

@paul1967 so back to Normal White America Comfy? So it's fuck the Climate, Fuck M4A in the Middle of a Pandemic, Fuck Black and P.o.C Fuck Income Inequality, so White Americans can Relax?...

@LucyLoohoo seriously? So you're ok with No M4A, No NGD, No Defunding/Demilitarization of Cops.
He gave a campaign speech at George Floyds Funeral..he Speaks All the Right Words..and they're as Hollow as Drumps..
He went from The Poor Peoples Campaign to Begging for money from Wall st Banksters..yeah No..he's not worthy of my vote..

@Varn hey Varn ..don't like like my very impertinent answers..fuck off..

@Justme43 gee , I don't know..His voting record maybe?..or His latest statements..on a wide range of topics..

@Charlene You have no answers, but apparently more desperate by the second … yes, sad

@Charlene I don’t know which statements you are referring to. And which voting records do you reject? Just looking for more info on Biden’s record versus that of President Trump.

@Justme43

For starters, he is the man who wrote the tough on crime bill in the 90's which intensified aggressive policing and caused mass incarceration. His legislation tore apart minority communities. He wanted to add a, cop's bill of right, along with it but it didn't get through. This was his response to the Rodney King beating, he wanted to put in place a bill of rights to protect officers who engage in police brutality. He has been an ardent supporter of the war on drugs and he thinks of young black men as "Super Predators".

Biden is exactly the wrong leader for the country during a time of mass uprisings in response to police brutality. And I hear he will likely choose the top cop Kamala Harris as VP pick. It really can't get much more out of touch than that.

@Varn ...oooo that hurt my feelings..but it's about what I'd expect from a Patronizing, Entitled, Privileged White Man..

@Varn HEY! Charlene's my friend....she's not an ''avowed attention seeker,'' etc....she's expressed her opinion. That's ok.

@LucyLoohoo ...good luck, then … suppose I’ve my own projects, too

@Charlene He's a progressive liberal circa 2020.. So he lies a little; so did Clinton.
What, you don't ever lie? No? I don't believe you.

@Storm1752

What’s your choice?

@paul1967

Green

@RoboGraham I added Green

@paul1967

Thanks, that was kind of you

@RoboGraham But they have no chance of winning so it's a protest vote?

@starwatcher-al

The idea is that by withholding the vote from the democrats and giving it to the greens instead, you send a message that the party is going to have to improve and stop nominating corporatists if they want to earn votes back.

@RoboGraham I understand that but that does not help to get rid of tRuMp and that is critical right now. and then work within the party for change.

“Green” ..takes me back ...nearly forty years.. Did nothing but help elect a republican then, as now. Suppose it can make you the ‘big man’ on the stump around the fire, denouncing everyone … though surely not ‘big enough’ to admit having caused more problems than solved..

If you’re not part of the solution - you’re part of the problem.

@starwatcher-al

If it's so critical to remove Trump, why are the democrats running the guy who wrote the crime bill while the country is rising up over systemic police brutality? And I've heard that they are likely going to choose the top cop Kamala Harris as VP.

Are they intentionally chasing away voters? Do they want to lose on purpose?

@Varn

"If you’re not part of the solution - you’re part of the problem."

Which problem? There are a myriad of problems that we are currently facing. And what is the solution you are referring to? There are all sorts of approaches and strategies to solve problems. How can you be so sure that your solution is the solution.

@RoboGraham The problem is, you know my answers... but apparently remain incapable of implementing them. Feels like I know where you are, having listened to guys like you ..following their lead.. wasting my votes, then finally figuring it out. There may not be hope for you, or perhaps you prefer chaos, but looking to simply survive - voting anything but Democrat at this juncture in US history is suicide. Yes, I get (damn) tired of pointing this out … but you deserve it.

@starwatcher-al He's lying, I think.

@Varn

What is it that I deserve?

@Varn, @Storm1752

Lying about what?

@RoboGraham ...the reality of our national situation pointed out. I refuse to sit by or ignore those attempting to influence others having done less leg work or homework than I.. They don’t deserve it.

@Varn

It's not about who deserves to be attempt to influence others. We have all equal right to speak and so we all deserve to influence as much as we are able. That's the important part, how much each of us is able to influence.

If your opinions and strategies are better, then you ought to be able to exert more influence. It's a free marketplace of ideas. If you've done your homework and your opinions truly are superior, you've got nothing to worry about.

@RoboGraham If you spent less time trying to weasel out of responsibility we’d all be better off Most folks around here are, as you put it, superior. But we live in a D/democracy, even idiots can vote. And by definition, ‘superior’ places us in a minority.

Sure, most of Bernie’s desires would be marvelous, prettymuch the plans of ‘The Greens,’ too. But we don’t get to dictate beyond suggestion who the masses select. Our system plays out as binary, thus we’re limited by the masses to only two realistic choices.

Here’s me, willing ...yet again.. to vote for the best of two candidates, neither having been my first or fifth choice. And there’s you, not only chucking your vote on someone I couldn’t even name.. But often demeaning the best of our two (realistic) choices. That appears to be your only “influence.”

I’ve done more in politics than you likely ever will, and far more than most. More by compulsion than desire.. I’ve not given up, but definitely stepped back … assuming someone, perhaps like yourself, might move it forward ..not make the same mistakes I did..

@Varn

The best of the two choices is a terrible choice. Of course I'm going to demean politicians who deserve to be demeaned. Regardless of which party they happen to be in. Principles over party.

What responsibility am I weaseling out of? How about your responsibility to hold your nominee accountable? There is plenty to criticize Biden about but you are silent on that matter.

Yet again you are willing to vote for a candidate who you don't like very much. If you continue to surrender your vote to the democrats regardless of who they nominate, you will continue to have corporatist republican lite leaders who consistently push the Overton Window further right each cycle.

It seems to me that the mistake is the continuation of cooperation with the democratic party.
Take it from Lawrence O'Donnell

@RoboGraham So you & yours will change the constitution? Beyond that, ‘two choices’ are what it amounts to.

The only viable opponent to the current danger in the White House does not need criticism. I’ve read it recommended by others, apparently you ignore them as well … that we fight for the best - then fight to see the best does their best.. Paraphrased..

You’re weaseling out of your responsibility to save the nation.

Didn’t say I don’t like Joe Biden, heck - I voted for him in a presidential primary decades ago; he did not win, I moved on. Have you not heard the saying, ‘you’re not marrying them,’ ‘you’re only voting for them?’

I understand it was the ‘Berner’s game’ - not to promote their desired presidential candidates attributes - but to denounce his opponent.. I have full trust in Joe Biden’s ability to be our president, and suspect he will move more issues much further than your preference would or could have.

You appear to be seeking purity, am I bursting your bubble..? I am working with the bulk of our nation willing to stop us from ..going to hell. Joe Biden will not take us to ‘hell,’ his opponent will take us deeper.

Sorry, I don’t take youtube videos for answers, I only want yours. If you cannot explain yourself, that’s what everyone needs to know..

Here’s what it apparently comes down to: You’ve two choices - kill the nation with the violent overthrow of every level of government within every state. Or, work within the system to repair it. The ‘Bernie’ folks I know are willing to burn it down - the majority of us are not. We’re the backbone of this nation, and anything less than working with us - is working against us. That simple ~

@Varn

Not voting for Biden will "kill the nation". That's just a bit melodramatic, don't you think? Yeah Trump is causing harm but to say that another term of his will literally destroy the nation is hyperbolic.

It doesn't take a change to the Constitution for a political party to get into power. It's happened before, one party falls apart, another rises to take it's place. These two have been taking advantage of the people for far too long and are due to be torn down.

To refrain from criticizing our leaders is to lose an opportunity to force them to be better. I'm perfectly willing to point out the flaws of my chosen candidate. If you put the blinders on and ignore the flaws, you will be unpleasantly surprised, as we were in 16. I didn't realize how terrible Clinton was because I wasn't paying attention to the criticisms. I was just cheer-leading for her, as you are for Biden.

We have different ideas of what needs to be done to save the nation. I'm doing what I think best, as are you.

I have heard that idiom. Thing is, your leaders do play a large role in what happens in your life. Not so much as the selection of a spouse, but still, better to be selective

Are you saying that Bernie supporters didn't speak positively about the candidate but rather only focused denouncing opponents? I spoke with a great deal of them and the vast majority of the discourse was focused on the positives of Bernie, not the negatives of the others. We talked much more just about medicareforall than we focused on the putting down of all the others combined.

In my view, Biden will indeed take us to hell, just a bit more slowly than Trump will. He is politically regressive and totally bought by the elites and special interest, always has been. He is no savior, just a lackey of the corporations.

Since you don't do videos, I'll type out his words for you- "If you want to pull the major party to your way of thinking, YOU MUST, YOU MUST SHOW THEM THAT YOU ARE CAPABLE OF NOT VOTING FOR THEM! Listen to me, I promise you, I worked within the democratic party, I didn't listen or have to listen to any on the left because the left had nowhere else to go."

Well there is somewhere else to go and if the democrats want to salvage the voters they are losing, they must listen to us.

@RoboGraham ...should have added, may kill the world … nuclear winter & all.. No, no exaggeration needed I do hope you get that, though.

It takes a change to the constitution to provide a Parliamentary System in which multiple parties have some clout - not winner take all - as our Founding Fathers soon admitted ‘their system’ boiled down to..

Being ‘taken advantage of’ is your perspective, not mine. I hope you’ve done enough homework to understand how drastically politics in the US has changed since the time of Reagan…

If your desire/ plan is to destroy one party in order to start a new one - then show some testosterone - and go after the party doing the most damage. If ‘the DNC’ is so damn evil … why didn’t your guy run as a Republican? …right..

Before you can criticize ‘our leaders,’ they need to be leaders, first. Joe Biden holds no office, his opponent does. Get Mr. Biden into office, then work with him. Have you lifted a finger to influence trump … but yet you attack his only viable replacement?

I’ve never stopped doing all I can … short of spending everything I’ve got and going insane while doing it.. I am using what I’ve learned - and have learned a lot. I’ve listed my participation before… What’s your contribution?

I have also described how ‘our leaders’ represent both their own aspirations - balanced with those who elected them. I’ve watched them age over the decisions they’d make… ‘Do I do what I feel’s right,’ ‘and lose the next election,’ ‘or do what my polls tell me is most popular?’ It requires a balance ..that eventually ends up with everyone mad at them.

Yes, the ‘Berners’ I met and know spent more energy attacking opponents (within the Democratic Party) than promoting their desires to those outside it. I’m sure they’d work themselves into a lather imagining nirvana when surrounded by their own … but the result I consistently witnessed was them going after Democrats … the only party willing to allow their guy to run!

PS, the ACA eventually leads to ‘medicare for all.’ Those unaware of that have no right to complain or tout an alternative.. ‘ell, even the Republicans figured that out..

Look at Obama’s Supreme Court Appointments - with Joe at his side. Now compare them to trump or juniors. Those ‘justices’ are the Arbitrators of Hell - and the perfect example of the major differences between our current parties. Again, you apparently lack both current and historical context when comparing ‘the parties.’ Sorry, it’s taken me a lifetime of learning … so far too much to explain ‘here’ ...and too easily ignored

Which party would eliminate Citizens United? Which would bring back The Fairness Doctrine, the Voting Right’s Act, Tax Fairness… One party - the Party of Joe Biden ...yet you’d give us ‘four more years’ of trump ..in order to create a ‘new party?’ There’d be nothing left! Are you an Anarchist?

How can anyone call the Democratic Party “the major party?” When they last had the Presidency and both houses of Congress - we got a path to single-payer healthcare! When the Republican’s last had total control - we got two wars - then a mega tax-break for the wealthy! But yet you’re looking to kill the Democrats?! Like I insinuated, if you’re gonna be ‘be the man’ then take him on - The Republicans

You watched any elections lately..? You witnessing what the Democratic party is fast becoming? ..but because you didn’t get ‘the top of the ticket pick,’ would kill the movement for everyone else? I’ve heard the false equivalency claims before, nothing new there.. To have or create any viable party, as the USA currently operates, you need the bulk of it’s citizens behind you. They are not there. But, they did make a choice. Their hideous counterparts also made a choice - it’s parked in our White House now..

If perfection is your goal & desire ..it’s not gonna happen.. Work for the party that comes closest to your desires, run yourself, and/ or help craft and guide it to a better place. To me, there’s so much damage to repair that just getting the problem party out of power is paramount.

If the bulk of people voting as Democrats thought Sanders was the answer - there he was. They didn’t, and made an alternative choice. Will you punish them, the nation, and the world for that? I can’t, and won’t.

@Varn

The threat of nuclear war is ever present and FYI Biden is more hawkish than Trump is. I don't trust either of them with that responsibility. On the one hand, a capricious clown, and on the other, a warmongering old man in cognitive decline.

I'm not talking about changing the USA to a parliamentary system, I'm talking about supporting a minor party to leverage a major party to move left. And hopefully eventually replace that major party with the minor party as hegemon of the left wing.

Yes I know very well how things have changed since Reagan. How the democrats felt that they had to imitate Reagan in order to win. How they abandoned the working class in favor of the corporations in order to compete with the republicans. It's great for the elites and shit for the rest of us and we need a party that represents us. The democrats don't ever since they embraced neoliberalism under Clinton.

Me going after republicans is a retarded strategy. They are the antithesis of me. I'm not going to convince any of them to join my ideology. However, I can influence democrats because most of them are at least sane and somewhat open minded. Republicans are TFG, lost cause. The best I can do is try and convince enough left leaning people to abandon the democrats so that either the dems will change their tune to bring people back into the fold, or better yet, their party will crumble leaving an opening for a party of the people.

I'm not sure what your definition of leader is but in my book, a man who was recently VP and is now the nominee of one of the major parties is for sure a leader.

My contribution? Well I've never missed a chance to vote, I've worked elections, I've volunteered for candidates, I've taught high school social studies, I engage with people in order to convince them to embrace left wing ideology, I've been to a few demonstrations. I was there waving signs and getting tear gassed during the Trump inauguration and back in DC the next day for the Women's March. How about you Varn?

The only party willing to allow him to run? Are you serious? Hawkins, the nominee of the green party, has said many times that he would step aside and hand the nomination to Sanders. The same offer was made in 16. Bernie chose a strategy of operating from within the democratic party, I was supportive of it then but now I see that the corporate wing has a strangle hold on power and will use all methods, valid or not, to keep progressives away from power. The only way is to embrace another party.

If the intention of the ACA is to someday become a single payer system, why did your boy Joe vow to veto single payer if he gets the opportunity? They have no intention of ending for profit healthcare. Their loyalty lays with their bottom line, their donors, the insurers.

Sure the democrats pay lip service to good policies and I suppose there is some slight chance they would actually follow through on some but ultimately, they will only give us what the donor class allows them to, the bare minimum to keep most of us content enough not to hit the streets.

You can blame me if Trump wins again if you want. And I will blame an out of touch democratic party that is so inept that they nominate the guy who wrote the crime bill during a nation wide uprising over police brutality. I do believe they are more concerned with beating progressives than beating Trump. If Biden wins, it'll only be because of the timely intervention of the pandemic and economic downturn and Trump's lack of ability to handle any of it.

You know how we take on the republicans? We support a party that doesn't attempt to follow their lead and capitulate to them at every turn. A party that isn't funded by the same elites who fund them. The democrats have proved that they aren't very able/willing to take on republicans as they shift further right with each cycle to try and appease moderates. First we get a party that actually represents the people and is clearly different and better than the republicans and then we can beat them.

Working for the party that comes closest to my desires is exactly what I'm doing. Before, I was working with a party that didn't match my ideology very well but I supported them because I thought it practical and I thought they were working their way toward me. Now I see that it isn't very practical and they are moving away from me. So I'm taking your advice and moving into the party that I belong in.