@creative51 I don't worry about insults as the are a reflection on the person issuing them. When someone resorts to insults in their argument just means that they ran out of legitimate arguments and are on the defensive.

@creative51 Thank you. It’s nice to be able to afford extra stickers.

LOL Russian troll

@Girlfran На самом деле я на 100% американец, но могу сменить телефон и немного следить за русским. Не бегло, но достаточно хорошо. Удивительно, чему вас может научить небольшое образование.

@creative51 You mean Biden/Harris? I don't see it happening. You feel strongly it's a yes and this is what is needed, then Good Luck.

@creative51 yes, and watching OrangeIdiot appoint 2-3 Supreme Court Justices, not to mention packing the lower courts.....good plan!

@creative51, @AnneWimsey Yes that's why I asked about the Unity ticket. Have a good day!

@creative51

That's the sort of attitude that alienates people and makes your guy less likely to win

@aintmisbehaven he’s done more for the economy, the black community, and American workers in three years than Joe’s done in 40 years. He won’t sell us out to China like Joe’s done in the past either.
If the Democrats hadn’t have over politicized the flu with media buzz, our economy would still be breaking records.
I’ll be waiting to see the liberals crying on the news on the morning of November 4th.

@creative51

You realize elections aren't war right?

You need to get as many votes as possible so chasing away potential supporters with this aggressive attitude is a really bad strategy.

I'm sure many will take you up on that, get out of your way and vote for someone else.

@creative51

It could become war but no matter how angry you are, it's still just an election.

You need to win people over, not chase them away

@creative51

So you lost twice yourself but criticize Hawkins for losing and continuing the fight?

I agree, Trump is very bad for democracy. I want him out too. I just disagree with the tactics of telling people to get out of the way if they don't see things the same way you do. We win people over by conversing with them. If we just tell them to go away, we don't have a chance of convincing them of anything. It's akin to when Hilary dismissed half the country by calling them deplorables. That didn't work out well for her.

What do you even mean by "get out of the way". Do you expect that people will shut up and not participate just because you tell them to go away?

@creative51

Great, he is tenacious.

I'm not surprised he hasn't won. In this country, if you don't bow down to one of the major corporate parties, you are very unlikely to find success politically. When in such an underdog position, you will inevitably lose, a lot, the only way to make progress is to keep on trying.

I commend him for his efforts to advance progressive policy and his defiance of the democratic party.

@creative51 you want war? Bring it. All I see is a bunch of liberal crybabies throwing temper tantrums. We think it’s more comical than anything.

@RoboGraham

We win people over by conversing with them. If we just tell them to go away, we don't have a chance of convincing them of anything.

Most of the time I'd agree with you, but that's just not accurate in this instance. If you're so blind and/or stupid that you haven't seen the light when it comes to Trump yet, no amount of conversation or evidence will convince you.

@JeffMurray

I agree that the MAGA people are too far gone. There is little hope for them.

Still I don't think it's a good idea to tell them to go away and kick them out of the discourse because when people on the fence see us arrogantly dismissing them, it's a bad look. It drives people who away who may have otherwise been reachable.

Far better to out debate them and them so that other people who may be looking in can see that their position is weak and immoral.

@creative51 when has he ‘encouraged’ white supremacy? Or is that just what CNN told you to think?

@CourtJester yeah, ooooookaaaaay,what would that be, exactly? ONE thing...I'll wait right here, shall ? Meanwhile, how do you feel about him saying/doinfg Nothing to Putin about bounties on our troops? To mention just one "little" thing......

@RoboGraham Nah, not this time around. If you're still a fence-sitter after 4 years of Trump, you're just as blind and stupid, and you're likely completely unreachable. Even if it's technically possible to dislodge the fence post from your ass, it would be time prohibitive. 4 years of him being a crazy fucking asshole didn't do it, so how long of a conversation are you planning on investing your time in to maybe sway them?

@JeffMurray

It may seem that way to you but for many, it's not so obvious. I think some just haven't been paying much attention and don't start really considering it until the election is close. Some are actually having a hard time deciding which is the worse evil.

I won't be trying to convince anyone to vote a certain way. In an election like this, there are no good options so I can't justify any persuasion attempts.

@RoboGraham

Some are actually having a hard time deciding which is the worse evil.

Yeah, these are the people I'm talking about. If you're so fucking stupid that you can't see Trump can, and possible already has, destroyed the fabric of our democracy clearly making him the worse evil, than nothing I can say or show you will fix you.

Saying there are no good candidate options is like saying there's no way to decide what to eat when you're starving and all you have access to is stale beef jerky or maggot infested rancid cheese. There is a clear choice in this election. The only people that can't see that are fucking morons.

@JeffMurray

The options are rancid maggot infested cheese or rancid maggot infested fish. I won't eat either of those.

If you are unable to see the dangers of Biden and democrats, then I doubt there's anything I can say to get you to realize it.

And by the way, this kind of thing is exactly what I'm talking about. Your insults will not convince anyone to vote the way you think is best. It only drives people away. This is why I am no longer in the party.

@RoboGraham You honestly think the dangers of Biden are equal to those of Trump?!

@JeffMurray

No, not equal. Which is why I hope Biden will win. He is the lesser evil.

Biden will bring us disaster incrementally. Trump will bring it in an unpredictable way.

@RoboGraham So you hope Biden wins because you think Trump is worse, but also so close to equal that it's not worth trying to convince anyone to vote for Biden. Got it.

@JeffMurray

That's pretty much it. I'm not going to support right wing politicians of any variety.

@creative51 I’m still waiting for your example of his white supremacy. The NAACP gave him awards before he was president and against the Democrat.
For an atheist that relies on facts, I’m feeling that you lean predominantly on feelings and what CNN tells you to think.
Go look for some facts to share with the group and come back when you’re armed with more of an argument than tissues there cupcake.

@creative51 How long have those statues been up? Why is Trump now at fault. You’re a funny funny funny feeling flake.

@creative51 an argument with no supporting data comes from the fool’s pulpit. I’m still waiting.

@creative51

You support a corporatist who has done a great deal of harm in this world and will certainly do more if given power.

That is foolish

@creative51

Yes he likely will, and I hope he does over Trump.

Why do aggressive? Can we not have a civil discussion?

@creative51

Hahaha. I see that you have relegated to cursing and name calling. I guess that gives me the proud right to be sanctimonious.
I wasn’t being quiet because you showed proof. All you offered was you opinion with no supporting data to back it up. I was quiet because I was putting a cast on one kid that broke his arm riding a bike and then had to put a lot of stitches in a kid attacked by a dog.
But keep up your liberal wordsmithing. It’s making my freaking day.

@creative51

Now there's something I respect. I never block people either.

That's a start.

I bet you and I have much more in common than what separates us.

But if you don't want to converse, that's your choice.

@creative51 now you’re quiet.

@creative51 Didn't you notice where I stated that I'm an Aussie, not from the U.S.?

@creative51 Well, congratulations to you then.

@creative51 It's yours to enjoy....LOL.

It appears that you have a bad opinion of our current president. Carry on

@creative51 There is no "this point in time" when it comes to third parties. Until our entire system of government changes to include proportional representation, we will always have a two party system.

@creative51 I'm not saying parties can't change. I'm saying you can't have 3 viable parties. It's basically a law is political science. But in the process of a new party taking over over in the top two, they likely cause several losses to the more similar party.

YES

@creative51 The last time we had major shifts like that was at the time of, and partially because of, the Civil War. So it's been about 160 years since something like that has happened and our population has just about doubled (meaning that many more people need to feel confident a new party can quickly gain traction and become the new major opposition in the forever-two-party system, which is that much more difficult for non-Republican parties since the Regan era when they solidified their ability to fall in line behind their candidate). But you feel good about your chances it's going to happen again soon?

Wait, weren't you the one that was talking earlier about not wasting any political capital, energy, money, etc. on pipe dreams? Third parties are pipe dreams.

@creative51 I 100% agree the stakes are higher than ever. But are you noticing a trend? We said that about Bush, too, and now we'd love to have someone as tempered, intelligent, and level-headed as Bush as the Republicans' nominee/president. What I'm saying is that because of the direction of the Republican party, the fact that their supporters don't care about truth, logic, science, or evidence, and the fact that they ALWAYS line up behind their candidate, I don't see a future where it isn't always a crucial election. You think 4 years of a black female vice president isn't going to make them lose their fucking minds and put up another Trump? You can't have a system where one side wants to debate the merits of proposals and the other side wants to burn everything to the ground just so they can get away with super corrupt shit like unconstitutionally stealing court seats and giving billionaires gigantic tax breaks. Our system is broken and I don't see how it can possibly be mended. I don't even think I see a path to victory in November once Republican run states start closing polling sites in democratic areas because of Covid concerns as just one method of suppressing votes.

@creative51 I'm not saying give up. I commend you for what you're doing.

@creative51 There are a few people that voted for Trump the first go around. We hadn't talked about it for years, but I had conversations with them recently. I think I may have changed their plans, but no way to know for sure. I think I may try to take the day off and drive people to the polls. If there even are open polls in my area...

@creative51
Then explain why tRump is president?

@creative51
I believe hillary had more vote than tRump.

@creative51 , the bernie bots are still in denial that they are the ones who allowed the orange buffoon to take office.

@creative51 The left is fracturing. There is an alarming amount of talk from the far left about how 4 more years of Trump gives them a shot at "real" progressive candidate in 4 years instead of 8. They do not understand the simplest things about the way our democracy works and thinks of it more like coin flips instead of varying degrees of probability for a win. This rift could possibly cause another Trump win.

@creative51 Even if that's true, it'll probably only be for 2 or 4 years. All the people that describe their vote as "holding their nose and voting for Biden" and all the Republican never-Trumpers all vote Republican in the next election. Hell, a lot of them may vote Biden then Republican all the way down the rest of the ticket just to get Trump out without "allowing Biden to do too much damage". Our electorate is too fucking stupid, and they are easily convinced to vote against their own best interests. Add to that the extreme corruption and failure to hold people accountable, and American democracy has become a failed experiment.

@creative51

"Bernie supporters are not monolithic. Most can be pragmatic."

Bernie supporters are pragmatic?

1. Voters who sat out 2016 and hurt own chances of a win and bring in the most dangerous president Trump for the entire country to hurt all?
2. Voters who did not stop at doing it once in 2016 but did again all of 2018 and 2019 and all the way until the predicted nomination of Biden to allow enemies to label the Democratic party socialist, communist and extremist?
3. Voters who wasted party's efforts and resources to wait until the internal fights get over instead of focusing on the enemy?
4. Voters who did not care to understand that unity was important and internal fights will not help?
5. Voters who introduced crazy and impractical socialist ideas in campaigns that the vast majority of Americans had already rejected in 2016?
6. Voters who kept glorifying an old, hunchback, heart attack patient, unimpressive, unelectable man with unelectable demographics against Democratic party's competent candidates time and again?

What pragmatism do you see in them?

@creative51 Like I care what you think of me...

Not voting for Biden gives us 4 more years of this insanity. Green can’t win.

@creative51 Oh, that one really hurts. I'm deeply, deeply wounded....

VOTE GREEN... VOTE GREEN... VOTE GREEN!!! I'm with you buddy... Pass it on...

@creative51

Hawkins is his name.

He's far better than either of the corporatists that the major parties have on offer.

I can understand frustration and revulsion at politics as usual.

This year, any third-party presidential candidate will not win, will only split the vote, and any votes for a third-party candidate ("voting one's conscience" or "sending a message" or building a movement) - will accomplish nothing, except perhaps help re-elect Trump, and will be soon forgotten. Unfortunate, but true.

Green Party and other third-party candidates may be electable to some state and local offices. Meanwhile, I'd like to work to eliminate the Electoral College, reform the voting system (a ranked voting system will give third parties a real chance), and reform the Senate (where Wyoming, population 0.5M, carries as much weight as California, population 40M).

This year, we have to just choose the best of the two major party candidates for president – or waste our vote.

@creative51

When someone fails but continues trying, I look at that with respect. It's difficult to never win but keep fighting.

And it's beside the point really. What matters is his policy. He supports rational progressive policies and, unlike Biden, has no history of screwing over the working class.

@Captain_Feelgood Your comment essentially reads: "DON'T VOTE... DON'T VOTE... DON'T VOTE" or more accurately "VOTE TRUMP... VOTE TRUMP... VOTE TRUMP".

Systems of government that do not allow for proportional representation are ALWAYS two party systems. We will never have 3 parties. The only thing that will happen when a third party starts to gain traction is steal more votes from the major party whose platform is more closely related to their own, and cause the side they're more opposed to to win.