I have recently come upon the situation of trying to explain my position on "religion" to a believer, who is a Mormon. The Mormons have a extremely elaborate afterlife scenario of eternal progression, of course, for eternity. How do you explain the nonexistence of heaven? GROG
If heaven is so great, why not kill yourself right now to join the partay!
It’s a sin to them. The buy bull says “Thou shalt not kill”. Includes suicide.
@SeaRay215ex mormons do not use the bible, they have the book of mormon, but despite that commandment, they can and will kill other living beings, so so much for that shit, the original post asked specifically for arguments, I provided one.
@SeaRay215ex And the "buy bull" is what it is all about. That is the buy, buy, buy your way into heaven because of a lot, and awful lot of Bull. Like most everything else, it's all about the money. GROG
The purpose of life must be fulfilled first and the golden goose must continue to produce. GROG
I do not waste my time trying to explain logic and reason to the willfully ignorant and the congenitally stupid.
I just laugh about it.
...and their underwear, and baptism of the dead, and the prophet named Joe, and how their rules from God change when the law changes and most of all Mormon archeology, nothing is as frustrated as a Mormon archeologists.
It, Mormonism, is just another example of how people can be scammed. My G-G-Grandfather joined Joe's cult in 1831.You mention baptism for the dead. It was at this same relatives funeral in Aug 1840 that Joe Smith proclaimed the ritual of baptism for the dead. Archeology?! Yes, where are the remains of all the cities and dead bodies that the BoM documents? GROG
I simply explain that I believe that the good that you do here, if it is rewarded at all, is rewarded here. The evil that you do, if it is punished at all, is punished here. and when you're dead, you're dead. No need to get into a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
Or an ignorant one.
I live in Alabama and as long as the weather is good, I go for a motorcycle ride nearly every Sunday and have breakfast at the same place every time. For the first year or so I got approached by bible thumpers about every other weekend or so and always shut them down pretty quick.
When they start talking, cut them off and ask them to show you proof. When they get about halfway into their reply, cut them of with “That’s your opinion and interpretation of what you read in the Bible or your preacher told you; not proof. Give me proof.”
Just keep replying with that. It’s rare that come back a second time. Never a third time. And I eat breakfast in peace now. The dirty looks most Sundays add to the enjoyment too. I did start tipping super well after the first time so I hope I haven’t gotten any boogers in my food.
Wear this with you!!
My objective is not to make enemies. I am trying to cure the mentally ill, if I can. People do change both ways. I even met a Russian Jewish couple who converted to Mormonism!!!. Figure that one out. GROG
I grew up Mormon too. I don't try to explain anything... just ask questions...like you don't know.
This puts those questions into their mind.
Explain God's unconditional love for humanity?
Why do you believe heaven is designed like the Titanic (first class, second class, and steerage)?
Also known as a pyramid scheme?
Why does an all powerful being demand worship? Ego? A condition of his unconditional love?
Define being worthy?
Etc.
I respond to their nonsensical answers with the comment, "Interesting"
And just leave it at that.
Spreading the seeds of doubt. LOL
A Mormon from Pocatello. I'm from central Utah and my parents' educations were similar. Dad graduated high school in 1919. I don't talk religion either. In this case, this man is someone I was friends with long ago, and we have friends in common. He became seriously religion in mid-life and I am curious as to why. have you heard of exmo-lex? She is from Idaho and has a number of videos on youtube. She hits the LDS Church really hard. GROG
The absolute best explanation I've heard was put forth by Sam Harris. Here is the part of his explanation that says it all for me.
"But there are very good reasons to think it’s not true. We know this from 150 years of neurology where you damage areas of the brain, and faculties are lost… You can cease to recognize faces, you can cease to know the names of animals but you still know the names of tools…
What we’re being asked to consider is that you damage one part of the brain, and something about the mind and subjectivity is lost, you damage another and yet more is lost, [but] you damage the whole thing at death, we can rise off the brain with all our faculties in tact, recognizing grandma and speaking English!"
I couldn't stop laughing uncontrollably at the magic underwear concept!!
My parents wore them. In those days you weren't supposed to take them completely off, even when bathing. Maybe during sex too. It was nuts. It has changed a lot I think, but don't know. GROG
You don't need to. Just say that you think it is a lot of nonsense and you don't believe in it.
I know I don't need to, but it's an opportunity to clarify my own position. I want to give him an opportunity to think ..... about all of the money his delusion has cost him. GROG
Definitely explains the problem, don't exactly think it'd help.
They do not read. Actually, Sam Harris sort of got me started to understand why I am a nonbeliever. The Book of Mormon is a muddled mess, and to believe it, a person must convince themselves that they alone are the saints in these latter days. Same old story, the End is soon to come. GROG
Wow, I have seen the older version of this song, and I can say, he is NOT one of the artists that went downhill as time passed by as far as his artistic performance. Both are equally fantastic.
What a coincidence, I know next to
e^(i*pi) - 1 = 0
about mathematics.
If they're ever going to recover from religion it will come from within. The best you can do is throw some doubt at them and maybe it will take root in the future.
True, change comes from within, so they say. In doing this I need to clearly understand my belief, because I know where he is coming from. He was once not a strong, but he changed. I will ask him what changed in him, from within of course. . GROG
I was raised Mormon, but I never felt I belonged, but even so it ws not easy to leave, as the church deliverately creates a social life for you, which of course revolves around church events. As I had al lmy social life arranged for me, it was really hard to cope with developing my own social life from scratch.
Mormons are like all other religions in that they totally ignore anything that contradicts with their religion. It happened in my case that at the same time we studied the old testament in church, in high school we were studying Greek mythology, and I noticed some similarities in story structures. After all what is today's Greek mythology was yesterday's Greek religion, and the seeds of coubt that wre always present started to grow.
I like this video as a way to help olant seeds of doubt in the religious. It shows that variosu gods and messiahs have nearly identical stories to Jesus.
i was born and raised in a Mormon family and a Mormon town, but did not get sufficiently indoctrinated. The LDS variety of the insanity is beyond belief. Glad to hear that you escaped. GROG
Theirs is the product of wishful thinking with no chance of their explanation being scientifically acceptable. E.g. how do you have thoughts in heaven? Thoughts have been proved as electrical activity, and for electricity you need the electrons from atoms that make up your brain. Death is the beginning of the dispersal of your atoms to all parts of the universe and beyond . So any thoughts or movements of electrons would not be connected to anything.
You can counter their theory of impossible Heaven by postulating you own ' Heaven on earth '. We are moving towards that very slowly and not in a straight line of progression, only really hampered by religion.
Tell him there's free Ice Cream and cake in hell?
But the ice cream is all melted and the cake is over cooked.
I just say "There is no reason to believe this, other than what is written in a holy book. There is nothing to back up the story. Additionally there is plenty of proven science that contradicts the story."