It is a bit naive isn't it

Yeah mate, I paid for a subscription. Still full of scammers and crap. A few nice people a long way away but ultimately not worth the money.

Paying for Our Time got me about 5 times as many scammers than any other site! I think they figured i had more money than most?! I only use POF now, free, easy to use, average# of scammers. (They try to get you to pay for"premium" services...don't do it, in 10+ years i never gave them a dime)

They are all about the same. Probably the best bet is to use the site that has the largest membership pool in your local area for your age group. In most cases, that will still be Match.com, simply because it has been around the longest, so it draws the most members simply out of name recognition and being popular so long.

Exactly right, and so is the screening process. The advantage of online dating is that you can encounter, screen, and potentially meet so many more people than you could in several years of trying to meet people organically. It does save a lot of time and expose you to a lot more people in a short time, at least potentially.

perhaps its your expectations it is hard for men and if you are looking for forever after that may not be what they are looking for

I believe all of those are true. That's why an average-looking man meeting a compatible woman is really against the odds, esp. if, like me, you are a liberal, child-free hipster in the middle of a dating pool that is pretty much country music-loving, Christian, family-oriented women.

I agree with this 100%! Meet Up is awesome.

Even though I rarely go to scheduled meetups anymore, I'm still friends with a handful of like-minded folks (surprisingly all atheist/agnostic) I originally met through meetup and we go on group "dates" to listen to music and dance. No pressure, just a safety bubble of friends who socialize and share activities. Usually one or two men and 4 women, so the guys are happy. We just "group dance" and several go on bike rides, hikes, golf, swim, dinner/drinks, trivia night, watch sunsets, etc.

I have been thinking seriously about exactly that. My ex seems to do alright on the meetup groups

Meetup groups are fine if you are needing more activities, need to make more friends, or need more socialization, but I have tried them for the purpose of meeting women to date. This was before Covid, and I already had enough friends and enough things to keep me occupied. I found that the same women who went to the Meetup groups were on the dating sites, so I quit the groups. There seemed to be no point to it since it duplicated my efforts on the dating site. I'm just saying that if your real interest is in finding dating partners, you won't gain anything by joining the groups, since the same people are already on the dating sites.

As a practical matter towards meeting women to date from joining Meetup groups, the two things you might gain from the Meetup groups is that one, you might find a male friend that could be your wingman for attending public events where you could meet women, and, secondly, you might meet some other singles who could set you up with single friends of theirs.

@TomMcGiverin So you're saying that only want to date women who would not be a good friend, since you have enough friends? Unless the meetup group is for singles looking to date, that would definitely be the wrong reason to join a group, so it's good you learned that about yourself.

Over the years, from my experience, there have been men and women who mistakenly think it's a dating group, and they are so obviously on the make that they make everyone uncomfortable, so they end up dropping out. Good. Nobody needs that creating drama for otherwise enjoyable outings.

Meetup is good for friends first, and if a romantic interest develops then great. If you don't want a love interest who would turn out to be your best friend in life, than you definitely belong more on a hookup site, than friendship oriented meetup.

@Julie808 You're putting words in my mouth, Julie. I want to date women who would otherwise be friends, platonic friends if they were not single or held no mutual physical attraction for me or them. You know what I meant, I think, so don't try to play the game of saying I am some misogynist who doesn't want the same positive qualities in a partnership that I want in a platonic friendship with a woman or a friendship with a man. You are showing your own biases and prejudices in that move you made at the beginning of your reply.

I already have enough male friends and platonic female friends, and before Covid I was busy enough I didn't need the kind of activity groups you seem to enjoy. I also don't use dating sites to find and make female platonic friends and I doubt very many men or women are different than me in not joining dating sites to make platonic friends. You are so wrong about me, but it shows how judgmental and biased you are against men unless they spell out for you every detail of how they proceed in the dating process. So, I will endeavor to do so, not that I owe you that, but for the benefit of the rest of the group that might be more open-minded. I don't join those groups because I don't want to waste my time on them or duplicate my dating efforts. So those precious groups don't have to worry about me creating "drama" in them. And BTW, who are you to act as the admission committee anyway over the intentions of people who join those groups, Julie?

When I approach a woman, whether it's on a dating site thru an initial message, or in person at a live music show, for example, I do so with an attitude of getting to know them gradually and eventually progressing from a friendship, spending time together, and later, after a few dates to several dates, depending on both my comfort and theirs, initiating or exploring a sexual and romantic relationship. Unlike you, I don't need a bubble group of friends to protect me or provide insulation against the opposite sex, I'm a grownup who can handle whatever behavior women throw my way and take care of it myself. As I spend more time with a woman and go out on more dates with them, I hope to develop a deep friendship as well as explore shared interests and enjoy a physical relationship as well over time.

Friendship, a romantic relationship, sex, and a committed partnership are not mutually exclusive things, Julie, much as you try to make them sound like they are or accuse others of treating as mutually exclusive.

I think that sounds pretty typical of most men and women on the dating scene, Julie, despite your attitude that I and maybe most men are just interested in sex and dating women who are not the kind we would otherwise choose to be friends with. If anything, I am less aggressive and hasty than most men in beginning a sexual relationship with a new woman, so, once again, Julie, you are wrong about me. Maybe you are a little like what whiskywoman was referring to recently about women on dating sites "who pretend they aren't interested in getting laid". Those are her words, not mine, but she has a point in that there are some women who pretend that eventually having a sexual relationship with a man in dating is mutually exclusive from men treating a woman with respect and giving her friendship as well as sex in a partnership relationship that develops out of dating.

So you can shove your judgement and your suggestion that I join or belong on a hookup site rather than Batch. I know myself way better than you seem to know others. Maybe you should remember that when you are so quick to judge.

@TomMcGiverin I live alone, so I do need a covid safe social bubble if I'm to socialize at all. Yes, that bubble also is protection from the wolves as well. Glad you don't need a covid social bubble like I do.

For the meetup groups, people naturally drop out when they don't get what they need from them. You said you don't need friends or activities,, so you would be there solely to meet women for dating purposes, from what I understand.

Unless it's a singles group specifically for dating, Meetup provides a safe environment for people to meet each other with similar interests without the creep factor of people on the make. That's my experience.

Those who are solely there for hopes of dating naturally weed themselves out when they realize it's more of a full bodied approach to meeting people for mostly platonic means. That's not what you seem to be seeking, so my comment likely doesn't apply to you, so I'm not sure why you even replied to my comment. If you don't agree with my suggestion, then just keep on scrolling and put it out of your mind. We likely have very different attitudes and experiences.

@Julie808 I replied because you made a very negative judgement about me and it was not accurate. I hear no apology here from you, so I will not just put it out of my mind. I will remember it about you and weigh it accordingly in anything else you post regarding me in the future. Not everybody needs your kind of protection from the opposite sex and not everybody is like you in that they prefer the safety and comfort of activity social groups for making platonic friends and also potential dating partners with all kinds of buffers and delays to slow down and complicate the discovery process between people and the process of possibly finding a mate thru a group process rather than the old fashioned, more common process of solo dating.

You do you and I'll do me. Just think twice before judging me or any other man negatively because I prefer the solo dating process over your group process and my frank admission that I want to date and meet women that not only have the qualities I would want in a platonic friend, but also at least the potential, on my part, of being physically attracted to them soon, if not already at the time I meet them or encounter them on a dating site thru their photos. I don't want to lead women on into thinking I am or will eventually be physically attracted to them if that is not or not likely to be the case. I think that is selfish and actually a form of game playing and manipulation. It seems to me tho, from what you have written, that you think that is proper and acceptable, as you prefer a long, drawn-out form of courtship with a man beginning with him showing up at your group and proving himself to you and your peers, while all the while you sit back and coyly keep your feelings to yourself about whether he might be more than friendzone material with you.

If you think that is ideal, then fine, but as far as I'm concerned, Julie, life is too damn short for all that jazz and I would rather just spend time with someone alone and find out in a matter of weeks whether this is going to pan out or not, being honest and as open as possible with the woman as I go. I think most people, male and female, prefer it more my way than yours, but you're entitled to your own path. Just don't you dare try to say that your way or your own mindset is superior or more proper or honorable than mine.

I live alone, Julie, same as you, but even before Covid I chose the solo dating, more direct process of courtship and dating over your more indirect, group, drawn-out approach to meeting, screening, and discovering members of the opposite sex as to whether they were suitable people for you to partner with. My approach and preference are just as legitimate as yours and I resent in your earlier comments how you tried to imply that I or my approach might be "creepy" compared to yours. My approach is actually way more common and accepted than yours as a primary way of meeting single people that might be compatible and dateable for my standards.

Weeeeellll ... I’m not sure I’d go quite that far. I know many, many people who’ve met their spouse online. I myself met my S.O. online over 5 years ago.

So even though it can feel 100% fake at times, there are indeed some good ones hidden in that pile of hay.

@Apunzelle that hopeful attitude is what got me started looking and because I also know people who were successful, but I'm starting to think it's a bit like winning lotto.

@Cyklone
It sucks, if you want to put up with a bunch of pure crap you can find the one for you!!!

The amount of real lasting connections are so over blown!!!

When you have over thirty million women chasing twenty nine and a half million men you would think you would be able to find that one in a million!!!

Yes worst odds than playing the lotto!!!

The joke is on those who still have hope through all of this creepy dreadful hit and miss introductions!!

You need so much more than just luck to succeed!!!

I'd be curious to know how similar the male and female experiences of these sites are. I suspect that they are very different not only in responses but also in how you handle the first meet. Thanks for your advice on the profile as I've found your advice helpful in the past. Good luck

@LiterateHiker
Good to hear. Hope all works out for you

You really nailed it. Especially about the married couples.

I agree. It's even worse as you get up toward 70.

@Cyklone I'm 62 and it's already terrible trying to meet someone.

@TheoryNumber3 And besides not being any help in fixing you up with anyone, the married friends also don't want to hear about your dating woes at all, probably because they find it threatening and they can't relate or understand it at all. So the only people you can gripe about it to are other singles and your therapist, lol.

@TheoryNumber3 Thanks. I like to know what I'm talking about.

@TomMcGiverin When I was married, we were part of a group of married friends who used to go out to dinner together. The women were all old friends of mine. After my husband and I divorced, I of course continued my friendship with the women. But they stopped including me in the dinners. ... or if they did, they wanted to pay for my dinner, like I was this pathetic single woman. It infuriated me. I thought we were a group of friends, but apparently it was "Married People Only Welcome"

@TheoryNumber3 It does sound like they pitied you at first. If they later stopped including you, I can guess that the reasons were that you may have been seen as a threat to the security of their marriages or that your presence as a divorced person threatened their sense of security as a smug married that they could end up like you. Either reason could be something they were not even aware of feeling regarding you, but it still stinks and was very disloyal of them to stop including you and treating you as an equal to them.

The funny, ironic thing is that after my late wife died, I attended a grief support group for widowed people for several months. This group seems almost like a variation of your group. They would have a monthly meeting which would mostly be a prepared program by a speaker and then a fellowship time while people ate treats that were brought. They also would have a monthly dinner at a restaurant so people could socialize some more and mix, but after attending a couple of those monthly dinners it became clear that the group was very cliquey and that I was never really going to fit in or be included socially there. It seemed that most of the longtime members grew up in Des Moines and attended one of the two high schools there that served the elite families there. And I grew up in another part of the state, so I clearly was never going to be included in that clique. And if that wasn't enough, it was clear at the first dinner that almost everyone there but a handful of people were already coupled up and dating each other.

@TomMcGiverin Yeah, I get it. I live in the suburbs so every party I'm invited to is a roomful of married couples and me. I'm usually over in the corner petting their dog and waiting for someone to leave so I won't be the first

@TheoryNumber3 I hear you. At least the dogs aren't snobs and welcome petting from any nice person, more than you can say for the humans. It sucks to be older and single, not by choice. And I'm so sick of smug marrieds as well as some other singles parroting the party line that there is something wrong with me if I am still unhappy with being alone after several years of being alone instead of not embracing the bliss of singlehood, learning to love myself, and all that other happy horseshit they say to shut us up and criticize us as being dysfunctional and unhealthy for wanting to be with someone again and being vocal about it. As the Brits would say, " Bollocks to all your happy talk!".

You're absolutely right. All their correspondence is cut and paste. You ask them a question and they just don't answer. Plus their English is stilted. They use expressions like "I will like to meet you" instead of "I would like to meet you".
And improper use of commas. I can spot them in a heartbeat. Also, ladies, look for the opening: "Hello Pretty"

Thanks for the tip

@TheoryNumber3 me too the I will like to like is a give away

You need a hell of a lot more than luck!!!

the site itself has botts they make money

The first one I encountered went under my radar. Our correspondence was strictly by email and his english was flawless.. After several, he was calling me "Darling" which made me obviously uncomfortable. He said he had to go overseas on business, but we would meet as soon as he got back. By this time, I had lost interest. He emailed me photos and stayed in touch.... and then came the piece de resistance. He said he had business problems and needed me to please send him $5000 to save "the project" he was working on in Africa. He said he'd pay me back as soon as he returned to the U.S. That was about 5 years ago and I believe he's still waiting for my reply.

Another one is for comic relief. I live in Chicago. He said he lived in McHenry, a Chicago suburb not far from me. I kept asking him open ended questions.. like what's your favorite restaurant. No answer. Finally I asked him what part of McHenry he lived in.... He sent me back a Wikipedia entry about McHenry Country, California.