Agnostic.com

21 8

Were all used to shitting on religion and its negative effects on society, but what about its positive effects? (if there are any)

I can think of at least one positive effect. There is a law in Texas (idk if its in other states) that says after 7 years your debts cannot be held against you on your credit, and after 4 years legally.

I believe its origins come from "Deuteronomy 15: At the end of every seven years you shall grant a release of debts. And this is the form of the release: Every creditor who has lent anything to his neighbor shall release it; he shall not require it of his neighbor or his brother, because it is called the Lord’s release."

Thoughts/opinions and/or 'shitting' on me in the comments are welcome.

Tejas 8 Mar 27
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

21 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

3

Gross misrepresentation of how such laws work now (you are not released from debt, you simply cannot have it held against you for more than seven years, six in he UK, AFTER the debt has been repaid. However in old testament times your life expectancy was between twenty five and thirty, so you were unlikely to pay off your debts, so the "lords release" was to stop children from inheriting their fathers debts.

3

The Lord's Release is hardly enough to offset the profound and significant negative effects religion has on society. LIke Henry James said, the history of religion is a bath of blood. When the minions of Columbus executed the last Chief of the Taino people for refusing to convert to what amounted to catholicism. He was reputed to have said, in so many words, if all the Christians are in heaven, I would rather die and go to hell.

2

Your scriptural reference may indeed be where some of our laws come from and not the Ten Commandments as many say. Even bankruptcy declares that debts cannot be held against you and that you do not have to pay them. It does not mean you are forgiven of debts.

As for "shitting on religion" I simply say that religion makes no sense. When looked at properly it makes no sense at all. I'm so bad that god had to kill himself to save me but my salvation is based on unconditional love that really does have conditions. WTF?

2

I'm sure this will come in handy for those people who face years of paying off huge electrical bills. I'm sure all the new repayment plans
this into consideration.
How does that work for a 15 or 20 year mortgage? If all it really relates to is one's credit report I would not view this as something good to come out of religion.
If one's slate is wiped clean in seven years it sure makes it damn hard to tell if they are a good credit risk.

2

Your 7 year release is not a "religion ". The reference you made comes from the laws for the nation of Israel prior to 2000 years ago. You are thinking the antiquated laws are religion. They are just old laws from another country Jurisdiction, some laws could still be considered beneficial in other jurisdictions.

Religion ... pure and faultless is this: to help widows and orphans in need and avoiding worldly corruption. James 1:27

Word Level 8 Mar 28, 2021

The reference I made was from the bible. christians may have stole that from jewish law but it is written in the bible

@Tejas christians stole nothing. the old testiment is purported as being in part laws for the nation of Israel prior to 2000 years ago. Other parts of the old testiment are like collections of writtings from the national archives of writtings of Israel prior to 2000 years ago.

2

Sounds like I should buy some land in TX, 7 years to own a home!

Maybe! I'm not legal expert but if you could find a loop hole, get yours.

2

What is positive about people not being held accountable for their own debt? So we have to pay for their freebees just because? Hell no!

When people have had unforeseen circumstances like job loss, illness or something then fine, let the bankruptcy courts handle that but released from debt just because 7 yrs. BS!

Leelu Level 7 Mar 27, 2021

Your not paying for their freebies, the debt simply cannot be held against you. Its a law that mostly helps poor people, wealthy people pay their debts cause 1 they can afford it 2 good credit is important to them

@Tejas The consumer pays for the credit company losses in higher fees and interest. So yes, we pay for it.

@Leelu yes thats how a credit company works. There are lots of ways for someone to go into debt. Do you also believe in paying off student loan debt for 30 plus years?

@Tejas If that's the deal or promise you made, yes. No one makes you take out a 30yrs loan. That's a choice. Just like the school you choose to get your education. If you can't afford it or don't want to pay on it for 30yrs, make another choice. People take out 30yrs mortgages every day. Their house is an investment. Your education is an investment but you also can choose less, less expensive college, less loan.

Are you saying people should be able to get money or tens or 100's of thousands of dollars in loans and then shirk their responsibility after they spent the money? Default on their promise?

@Leelu People do that now. most crimes have statue of limitations anyway. Im not an expert on finances or law. I do believe something you did decades in your past shouldn't be held against someone like they did it yesterday.

2

The repercussions would be "interesting" if anyone invoked this!

1

Religions gives some people hope too.

I hear this from people, but I honestly can't understand what it means. I was religious and I'm not now. I have no less hope now than I did when I was religious.

@Eazyduzzit Well, it is like this; some people have a need to believe that after we are dead there is something else. They cannot understand that it should the end, they find it difficult to comprehend that we are not special and there is a reason for us being here.

@Jolanta I understand what you're saying. I think it's just the way my mind works, but I still don't understand how it gives people hope. Most of the religious say they believe in an afterlife, but they act as if they don't.

@Eazyduzzit Well, you know all those christians who are ever so un christ like, same thing.

1

I'm not into the shitting part. Religion is a system by which large masses of people are controlled by rules, regulation, fear & shame. Freedom is what is difficult to manage.

1

California has similar laws.

1

Big difference between forgiving debt and tweaking a credit report.

1

Credit cards seem to go on forever . Don't think this applies . On the other hand . Religions do start and run hospitals , free food centers , charity shops ,and counceling centers . Have never heard of atheists doing any on these , for free or very low costs .

Religions will also refuse certain treatments, refuse to treat certain groups, refuse to hire certain groups, and require participation in their rituals for aid, all based on Iron-Age myths. Secular institutions treat, hire, and aid all comers based solely on need.

1

I would question the morality of taking on a debt, and not honoring the repayment. If a person is going to use religion, or any other reason to not repay an honest debt.. then the price of that persons honor has been set. Like the woman that agrees to sell her body for $100,000. WHAT she is, has been established,

everybody has their price 100k is alot of money

Is there a name with similar connotation for a man who might sell his body? Society views women differently and it is really annoying.

@silverotter11 in the UK legally, whatever genitals you have, selling your body for sex has the same name and same penalties.
It is called prostitution, or colloquially whoring, and has for all time been an equal opportunities employer.

@LenHazell53 That's refreshing.

@Tejas well shit. Cut by a positive statement by a negative attitude, backed by the wisdom of experience???

@silverotter11 a whore, is a whore. Some are just honest in their trade, and some are black hatters looking for something, for nothing

@HankSherman I think the sex work is normal and should be legalized.

1

I can think of millions of college students who think this should be written into every student loan! Given that it's Texas, there has to be a work around or the banks would all be bust! And we all know Republicans would never let that happen.

1

So, given that then ANY and ALL Monetary Debts accrued by Israel or ANY other Country from the World Monetary Fund should be AUTOMATICALLY canceled/made Null and Void after 7 years have passed?

I believe its more of a LOCAL thing

@Tejas Ask ANY Chrustian ( Christian) and you'll get the reply, " It's in the bible and Christianity IS World-wide Religion."

1

Every state has a statue of limitations. As far as I know, it has nothing to do with religion.

the statue of limitations in texas for debt collection is 4 years. the 7 year forgiveness is a little different.

@Tejas I lived in Texas most of my life. I have never heard of "forgiveness". Could you please explain what the difference is since once the statue of limitations is passed, you aren't required to pay pay it.

@kiramea once 7 years has passed the debt is erased off of your credit history

0

Doesn't look like you need my opinion, Ted

0

...so if you live in Texas and have a current bond at the bank for let's say just over 7yrs, you cannot be sued for the outstanding dept or your home cannot be repossessed by the bank eg if you lost your job and cannot make the repayments?...and the sound reasons for same is based on a verse from the bible which was written into Texas law🤔and it's stands as we speak? 🤔 🙄🤐

you would have to look up the specifics for that scenario. Its known as the "non debtor" law

Can't be held against you "on your credit". Works the same on your credit report, but does not mean you get to keep the house without paying. If you lose your house in foreclosure, that won't be on your credit report after 7 years. That's all this law means

@JonnaBononna
your explanation makes more sense then.

0

So if I borrow to buy a house then after 7 years the house becomes mine regardless of how much I still owe on it? I would oppose this law as if someone borrows then they should pay it back this just allows people to hand over pennies on a debt over 7 years knowing at the end of those 7 years it ceases to exist. Also that after 4 you can not legally pursue them over it so after 4 years they can stop paying because you can no longer do anything legally to make them pay.

Im not sure how it works for buying a house, land or car. If you're squatting in a house im sure the courts would have the police remove you. I think the time counts on when you stop paying not when you start.

0

Such a provision is not dependent on a church or religious tradition. It can just as easily be part of a social contract or a matter of civil law. This provision can easily be continued with the negatives of religion. The two are not irrevocably linked.

sure. the post was intended shed light on positives originated from religion.

@Tejas And, THAT is a POSITIVE from Religion?????

@Triphid In my opinion yes. It helped me when I was about 19 I had to have my appendix removed, and after all was said and done I owed the hospital around eight thousand dollars. Being 8k in debt before even starting your life is wrong imo

@Tejas - I found your question somewhat difficult to address because nearly all if not all cultures evolved with religion in one form or another. One could argue (as some religious people do) that all positive effects come from religion. I would argue that these positive effects are not necessarily the product of religion but rather they evolved alongside and with religion. What helped tribes and clans remain cohesive and helped them survive became entrenched within their social order and became entrenched in religion which in many ways was simply the assumption of what was true from tneir perspective. So, is it really the religion that should get credit, or is it simply a workable policy that helped them survive. It is something that was entrenched in a religion and came to us through that religion, but how did it get there?

It isn't my intent to be offensive here so I apologize if what I say comes across that way.

@RussRAB all good, I welcome all forms of speech offensive and non. I think religion helped humans try to explain things that they couldn't explain at the time. We'd definitely be better off without it now.

@Tejas - I'm glad to know we are good. I agree that religions attempted to explain what they weren't able to explain in other ways and attempted to preserve aspects of social behavior generally beneficial to social order.

@Tejas Sorry to hear that.
Though I had my appendix removed aged 12 and since where my family and I lived the TOWN owned and operated its own Hospital, 5 storeys of it in all, that, at the time, was considered to be the VERY BEST Hospital in the Southern Hemisphere for Teaching and Training in Severe Emergency Traumas due to the massive Silver, Lead and Zinc Mining Industry here, it cost my family absolutely ZERO.in medical and hospital bills.
In the year 2000 when my 15 year old daughter was diagnosed wit Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma which required 10 x 21 days Cycles of Chemotherapy, etc, etc, and I was her Sole Custody parent, that too cost me NOTHING at all thanks to the Australian Medicare Scheme and System.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:585231
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.