What you believe influences how you act and behave, which have consequences.

@Butch79 I do not want to throw away any PART of religion which is beneficial to man or womankind

@Mcflewster Right on. If believing myths, helps someone be a better person or deal with their crappy life. More power to them.

@Mcflewster, @jlynn37 While I agree with ur statement, at face value. That's also stereotyping ppl, and all religious freaks are as much the same as all atheist and agnostics are the same. And none of those r true. Judge ppl as a whole, not off any 1 belief or trait.

@jlynn37 I believe that in the future the majority of learning will be done by following example.

@Mcflewster That's what 90% of learning is. U don't know, so u follow the example. But I have the ability of critical thinking, too.

@Butch79 No I do not believe that believing in myths makes anyone a better person.

@Mcflewster I agree, directly. Myths don't do anything for u. But, power of the mind does. And if someone believes ""Jesus Christ or whatever they believe" gives them power over their addiction. I think that's bullshit but if it helps them believe in themself, how can u argue that as a bad thing.

@Mcflewster certainly not believing them literally anyway, ya

“ But, why do we have to rid the world of religion? Why can't everybody be free to choose their own beliefs?”

bc (as Rick has pointed out) fascism is always the default? We call them “beliefs” but they are treated more like Absolute Truths by the “believer,” only you are defining “beliefs” as “subject to change,” right? The “correct” way, iow

I "KNOW" no more than you do. I just enjoy finding out.

I know you are speaking the truth, but truth is something you can build upon to reach higher.

well, does anyone have that knowledge? So imo you will just go in circles with that. It is a bad, even evil (bc obscuring) definition of “agnostic” imo

@Fernapple Methodolgy is just an example of getting organised. There are many others. Preaching is telling people what they should do. I do not aim to preach but perhaps you think there is some compulsion in what I have suggested?? You have changed your Avitar??

@Mcflewster “ Preaching is telling people what they should do”
right? From a position of assumed “knowledge,” eh

@bbyrd009 Quite. Though you could say, that knowing, I don't know, is a kind of assumed knowledge, so that there is no real way of escaping from some assumption of knowledge, other than perhaps saying. "I don't know if I don't know or not." Or in other words. "I am not sure if I am agnostic." Which seems a bit extreme, best stick to just, lets not preach, perhaps.

@Mcflewster Yes but you could preach methodology, which may not be as bad as preaching conclusions, but is still preaching. But then there is no hard line, between explaining or teaching, when they are openly wanted and requested, and preaching when it is being impossed and perhaps not wanted, quite the opposite most expressions of thought probably fall into a huge grey area between.

Yes I have changed my icon. I am about to retire from work so no longer need to be discreet, so this is the real adult me. And I am saying hello to everyone with my real name of Richard, so hello.

Surely everything, until you have tried it, is POSSIBLE. How LIKELY it is will always be another matter altogether. I can understand why so many people THINK it is impossible, but the thought of impossibility slows everything to a halt. Finding out if it is possible increases the chances of it coming true. You have been there then?

@Mcflewster Seriously? So do you think COVID-19 is just going to disappear?

Again, as long as there are the gullible and naive, there will always be some form of belief, if it isn’t religion itself maybe they will worship an alligator, maybe a great white shark. And to some they may be considered “Gods”. So, thinking it is going to just somehow “wander away” or somehow “disappear” is mere wishful thinking. But it is on the decline, no question about that.

@CuddyCruiser How about belief in One'self ? Is that not worthy? Self belief is destroyed by religion in favour of believing and worshipping myths .

@Mcflewster yes, a nascent “belief” in the self which should be nurtured into healthy self-esteem is instead hijacked by suggesting that one might become an immortal lol.
(What did you go out into the wilderness to see?)

ha i was gonna say that we often seek to change things rather than just change

True because no one is actually driving it. I am making suggestion to be discussed and the conclusions can only be judged by any degree of consensus. I must say that the only consensus so far that I detect is that it is impossible to get rid of religion, which is sad but I cannot change it alone.

Yes , thank you . I couldn't agree more.

One does not get a better school, police force or army by calling all its members stupid and that will apply to religions because all of its members are humans and make mistakes like the rest of us including me.

@Mcflewster I’m sorry, anyone that believes the bullshit in the Bible is stupid, carry on.....

There is no insistence in a suggestion especially if the receiver has never considered it before . My posts are always suggestions to stimulate thoughts and eventually discussion.

“ I’m confident nothing short of forced genetic manipulation will rid H.sapiens of religion, and we had better hope nothing does. Our survival is as dependent on it as oxygen to breathe.”
i def would not be stripping the egomaniac/believer of their religion, be it christianity or (moral) atheism, if that is mainly what keeps them civil, ya. Fwiw this is the gist of the give us a king! passage, 1Sam8 i think? Ppl wanted religion, iow, a king to fight our battles

“ I can agree with the four alls as presented, but would add a fifth that says Not all will be saved, because very few believers or non-believers have any idea what salvation is, and science is still mostly afraid of looking at it.
Hint: it has nothing to do with any presumed life after death of the body”

the law of sin and death was a literal thing then…i had supposed it had something to do with that

@bbyrd009
maybe so

Not 'things' but suggestions for action.

@Mcflewster i get you…i think we are just operating under different definitions of “agnostic” prolly; to me, action requires gnosis?

You seem to know the future and it will not change. You are not alone but should we not try to make the future?

@Mcflewster Why do you say I know the future? I do not.

Part of why I rarely visit any more…

Something is chasing its own tail here, getting us nowhere.

@BitFlipper Agnosticism mean not knowing, and possibly not being able to know. The prospect of knowing infers a context of seeking knowledge, and, presumably true knowledge. Thus, the implied agenda of agnosticism is a search for truth - true knowledge. The methodology is a recognition that knowledge can be false, and the criteria by which one can discern false knowledge. Once false knowledge is identified, it can be rejected. Distilling the facts and logic to prove lies are false enables an ever swifter rejection of said lies. Agnosticism provides the contextual attitude of withholding judgment until proof is presented, but when it IS presented, to reject false religions.

My effort below is attempting to praise the capabilities of MAN/WOMANKIND. Not a god. Religion tries to capture everyone with a belief in an illusion. Why should we not celebrate how alike we are and how we do not need saving.

@Mcflewster I never said anything like that, just pointing out that setting up "rules/creeds/ sggestions" about beliefs is doing exactly what all religions (and cults!) do

Nice song!
Mixed feelings about the consequences of the actions you spell out.
A Who would post the decree? That would make them a target for assasination by mad evangelists and war would ensue.
B Massive number of behavioural scientists required.
C And converted into cash for more generalised benefits
D How?
E Agreed, but as always it would be resisted by many

What about F through M and Q to Z ?

The question of "Fallen women" being saved begs another . Will you save one for me?

@Mcflewster Yes, but would you be willing to share her with me at the same time as you are "using" her?

Hell. It’s a metaphor.

@skado think so, huh? strickly the cover story, i think…”hell” is norse/angle, hebrews never had that. Gehenna is on earth!

@bbyrd009
It’s all on earth.

@skado well, except for where we imagine “hell” to be eh

@bbyrd009
Who’s this “we”?

@skado lol ya

@skado so then the q remains, “saved from what?”

@bbyrd009
psychological suffering

@skado rings true, ya. maybe!

Muslims want 43 to one.